Predestination is misunderstood...

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Genez

Genez

Junior Member
#2,781
Oct 12, 2017
2,775
407
83
#2,781
Thunderrr-mental said:
So your saying God created the devil to make Adam and eve fall in the Garden of eden, where God walked with Adam and eve, and God also created this knowing mankind would die.

And your also saying God created all this even if the serpent was not directly satan, it still could of been satan because because Satan could of possessed the serpent,

So your saying if the serpent was possessed by satan, it would still be satan.

Which one is it with your opinions, and your Hebrew Gods of interpretation.

Is it the serpent was Satan or it was Satan because satan possessed it, ( how absurd).

Right ok So your also saying God created man to fall, knowing that they would fall as a result of a creature being possessed.



So may I ask also, are you somebody else who's knows every everything about God also. 😊
Click to expand...
You do not point out wrong things being taught. You point out things that you have distorted into something that was not said.

Nothing about you that three years of intensive "quality" study could not cure.
Right now, you are like that kid that hates going to school, and disrupts the class when seeing students liking to learn.

You really do not want to learn right now. With the one exception of learning how well you can disrupt a classroom and get the attention placed on you.

Do you want to learn about God. or not?

I am not saying God created man to fall. But, God created man knowing man would fall. And, knowing how God could use the fall to his advantage of making his enemies his footstool, He then wanted the fall (but only for that reason I just gave).

God then implemented using fallen man as a teaching tool for angels, especially fallen angels ,, who take on a similar attitude like you are now projecting towards learning truth. Yes... fallen angels are getting a taste of their own medicine by seeing how you interact with those here wanting to learn.

We all came into Christianity being examples of attitudes that angels see and recognize. God then shows angels why some angels in how they think must be condemned and eliminated from eternal interaction with others. That is why we see the Lake of Fire. For the Lake of Fire is the ultimate quarantine of containing evil.

If you out grow your own natural tendencies and become transformed by truth then the angels of God rejoice.

Wishing you a nice Day....
 
Mem

Mem

Senior Member
#2,782
Sep 23, 2014
7,123
2,152
113
#2,782
FollowerofShiloh said:
Agreed!
If we had no denominations and everyone just believed in the Gospel I bet every city around the world could be won. Denominations is the worse thing to ever happen.
Click to expand...
They create natural alliances, yes, and these are among categorically included in Maslow's hierarchy of needs, of which's goals I believe should be inverted in order to achieve any sort of effectiveness. If we started with "self actualization," that is, realize who we are relative to sons and daughters of the Most High God, all the other levels of need would fall into place accordingly. We wouldn't worry after alliances if we actually realized that God is for us, and provides all our needs, including all our brethren. I know these are "out there" somewhere, wherever God has seen fit to strategically place them. And so, if I should worry after a physical presence (didn't Paul write of being in spiritual presence?), my worry is found unwarranted in my notion of any immediate need.
 
Genez

Genez

Junior Member
#2,783
Oct 12, 2017
2,775
407
83
#2,783
Dino246 said:
God and the other members of the divine council.


Do you understand that God was sharing His plan with the members of the divine council, and not sharing the design process?
Click to expand...
When God was speaking to the Divine council?
He was not including the Divine council in with the plurality found in.. "Let us make man in our Image."

God was telling the Divine Council something different. That this time around? That God (plurality) will make man in His Image.
Because in the previous creation the type of prehistoric man that had been created God had assigned angels to transform those generic type men into God's image. That was their assignment. But, history as found in the Bible, reveals that the angels failed miserably and all prehistoric men needed to be destroyed by God, as revealed in the Book of Jeremiah.

I learned the following from Professor Stan Ashby who taught ancient languages and was associated with Harvard during WW2.

Jeremiah 4:23-27
New King James Version

23
I beheld the earth, and indeed it was without form, and void; (Jeremiah just cited Genesis 1:2)
And the heavens, they had no light.
24
I beheld the mountains, and indeed they trembled,
And all the hills moved back and forth. (giving insight into how the first creation was destroyed by God)
25
I beheld, and indeed there was no man, (Hebrew speaks of a generic form of man - humanoid)
And all the birds of the heavens had fled.
26
I beheld, and indeed the fruitful land was a wilderness,
And all its cities were broken down
At the presence of the Lord,
By His fierce anger. (that was the destruction of the first created world)

27
This is what the Lord says:

“The whole land will be ruined,
though I will not destroy it completely.

(verse 27- Voice of prophesy letting Israel know that they will not end up utterly destroyed like the first judged creation ended up.
For Israel will survive and not be totally destroyed like we find the state of the earth in Genesis 1:2)

........................
grace and peace!
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
#2,784
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
#2,784
Mem said:
They create natural alliances, yes, and these are among categorically included in Maslow's hierarchy of needs, of which's goals I believe should be inverted in order to achieve any sort of effectiveness. If we started with "self actualization," that is, realize who we are relative to sons and daughters of the Most High God, all the other levels of need would fall into place accordingly. We wouldn't worry after alliances if we actually realized that God is for us, and provides all our needs, including all our brethren. I know these are "out there" somewhere, wherever God has seen fit to strategically place them. And so, if I should worry after a physical presence (didn't Paul write of being in spiritual presence?), my worry is found unwarranted in my notion of any immediate need.
Click to expand...
One time I was passing through a city and decided to stop for fuel before heading to my destination. It was a very hot sticky humid day and I was wearing a t'shirt because anything more would have made me over heat. As I was pumping fuel I looked around to see and observe the area I was at. I saw 2 men with a cardboard sign, "will work for food."

After I fueled up I went into the station and bought a couple waters and subs. Then I proceeded to where these 2 men were standing at. As I arrived and was handing the waters and subs to them, a man in a long dark over coat, dressed in all black, with long jet black hair just appeared behind them. As I saw this man my skin began to goose bump and he had his head tilted forward to the ground but his eyes were staring at me. I told these men, "Jesus Christ loves you and He's waiting for you to come home." When I looked to see the other man's reaction, he was across the street. I don't know how someone can get from one side of a city street to the next in the span of saying, "Jesus Christ loves you and He's waiting for you to come home," but that thing did.

I think we can see evil everywhere if we pay attention. And if we would pay attention, it's easy to defeat and we could easily have control of every city in the world.
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#2,785
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#2,785
FollowerofShiloh said:
God knew what Adam would do because He is omniscient and omnipresent. And God could have had His Angels there watching.

Think about a miracle. It happens for us in real time. But God knew it would happen and had Angels in place to perform the miracle before it ever was needed. God is the SAME yesterday, today, forever. He never changes. So stop acting like He does.
Click to expand...
So a part of you is now accepting it's a possibility he did not create Adam knowing what they would do next as in seeing into there future,

As your now saying he could have had angels watching them in the garden to tell him what they where doing.

Is this kind of a partial agreement 🤔

😊😊

 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#2,786
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#2,786
Dino246 said:
God and the other members of the divine council.


Do you understand that God was sharing His plan with the members of the divine council, and not sharing the design process?
Click to expand...
can I ask are you a partial Calvinist or a full blown one 😊
 
FollowerofShiloh

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
#2,787
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
714
113
#2,787
Thunderrr-mental said:
So a part of you is now accepting it's a possibility he did not create Adam knowing what they would do next as in seeing into there future,

As your now saying he could have had angels watching them in the garden to tell him what they where doing.

Is this kind of a partial agreement 🤔

😊😊

Click to expand...
English must not be your first language. I am saying God could have done it different ways but does not mean God did not know Adam would sin before Adam sinned.

Tell me something.
Do you think God knows the next post you make will be as foolish as the prior 100 posts you've already made in this thread?
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#2,788
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#2,788
FollowerofShiloh said:
English must not be your first language. I am saying God could have done it different ways but does not mean God did not know Adam would sin before Adam sinned.

Tell me something.
Do you think God knows the next post you make will be as foolish as the prior 100 posts you've already made in this thread?
Click to expand...
That's a foolish suggestion,

You said maybe God had angels watching them in the garden of eden.

Why would they need to be watched in the garden if eden, when firstly they free, innocent. And God had saw everything he created was Good

Secondly, why would God tell them not to eat from the tree of knowledge, if.he knew that they was going to.
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#2,790
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#2,790
Genez said:
You do not point out wrong things being taught. You point out things that you have distorted into something that was not said.

Nothing about you that three years of intensive "quality" study could not cure.
Right now, you are like that kid that hates going to school, and disrupts the class when seeing students liking to learn.

You really do not want to learn right now. With the one exception of learning how well you can disrupt a classroom and get the attention placed on you.

Do you want to learn about God. or not?

I am not saying God created man to fall. But, God created man knowing man would fall. And, knowing how God could use the fall to his advantage of making his enemies his footstool, He then wanted the fall (but only for that reason I just gave).

God then implemented using fallen man as a teaching tool for angels, especially fallen angels ,, who take on a similar attitude like you are now projecting towards learning truth. Yes... fallen angels are getting a taste of their own medicine by seeing how you interact with those here wanting to learn.

We all came into Christianity being examples of attitudes that angels see and recognize. God then shows angels why some angels in how they think must be condemned and eliminated from eternal interaction with others. That is why we see the Lake of Fire. For the Lake of Fire is the ultimate quarantine of containing evil.

If you out grow your own natural tendencies and become transformed by truth then the angels of God rejoice.

Wishing you a nice Day....
Click to expand...
all I ever here from you, is you you you..

Well sir you should take a reality check 😂

 
sawdust

sawdust

Active member
#2,793
Feb 12, 2024
904
185
43
67
Australia
#2,793
Cameron143 said:
It's a very kind offer. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Showing verses with the Biblical understanding of the word "fair" which, in essence, is to be without bias or partiality but (to act) in accordance with what is right.

Leviticus 19:15 (similar Deut.1:16 and Deut.16:18)
“‘Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly.

Proverbs 1:3 (one of the reasons for the book of Proverbs)
for receiving instruction in prudent behavior, doing what is right and just and fair;

Proverbs 29:14
If a king judges the poor with fairness, his throne will be established forever.

Proverbs 31:9
Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy.

Ezekiel 18:8 (speaking of the righteous man)
He does not lend to them at interest or take a profit from them. He withholds his hand from doing wrong and judges fairly between two parties.

Luke 20:21
Then they asked Him, saying, “Teacher, we know that You say and teach rightly, and You do not show personal favoritism, but teach the way of God in truth:

Romans 2:11
For God shows no partiality.

Galatians 2:6
But from those who seemed to be something—whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man—for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me.

James 2:1
My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality.

James 3:17
But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere.

1 Peter 1:17
Since you call on a Father who judges each person’s work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear.

I think that is more than enough to show God is both just and fair.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#2,794
Mar 1, 2022
18,893
6,488
113
62
#2,794
sawdust said:
Showing verses with the Biblical understanding of the word "fair" which, in essence, is to be without bias or partiality but (to act) in accordance with what is right.

Leviticus 19:15 (similar Deut.1:16 and Deut.16:18)
“‘Do not pervert justice; do not show partiality to the poor or favoritism to the great, but judge your neighbor fairly.

Proverbs 1:3 (one of the reasons for the book of Proverbs)
for receiving instruction in prudent behavior, doing what is right and just and fair;

Proverbs 29:14
If a king judges the poor with fairness, his throne will be established forever.

Proverbs 31:9
Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy.

Ezekiel 18:8 (speaking of the righteous man)
He does not lend to them at interest or take a profit from them. He withholds his hand from doing wrong and judges fairly between two parties.

Luke 20:21
Then they asked Him, saying, “Teacher, we know that You say and teach rightly, and You do not show personal favoritism, but teach the way of God in truth:

Romans 2:11
For God shows no partiality.

Galatians 2:6
But from those who seemed to be something—whatever they were, it makes no difference to me; God shows personal favoritism to no man—for those who seemed to be something added nothing to me.

James 2:1
My brethren, do not hold the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with partiality.

James 3:17
But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere.

1 Peter 1:17
Since you call on a Father who judges each person’s work impartially, live out your time as foreigners here in reverent fear.

I think that is more than enough to show God is both just and fair.
Click to expand...
All those verses deal with justice. But thanks.
 
Thunderrr-mental

Thunderrr-mental

Banned
#2,799
Dec 18, 2023
6,402
406
83
#2,799
Genez said:
You like going AWOL in the spiritual warfare....
Click to expand...
what a suprise another you you you, and accusation.

I'm beginning suspect your possessed with all your accusations.

So come on then clever clogs let's hear your suggestion, as to why God asked Adam and eve not to eat from the tree of knowledge if he knew they where going to,
 
You must log in or register to reply here.