Predestination is misunderstood...
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That was explained with sophomoric understanding......
Here is what God is.
He is all knowing in spite of how he may choose to not appear to be so, as with your examle....
Here is what God is.
He is all knowing in spite of how he may choose to not appear to be so, as with your examle....
Isaiah 65:24
“It shall come to pass
That before they call, I will answer;
And while they are still speaking, I will hear.
.........“It shall come to pass
That before they call, I will answer;
And while they are still speaking, I will hear.
Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”
10 He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”
11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”
12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”
13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
14 So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,
Dud God know What Adam and Eve had done 🤔
10 He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”
11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”
12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”
13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”
The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
14 So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,
Dud God know What Adam and Eve had done 🤔
That is a one possible translation of the Greek.
The greek says, "And will worship him all who dwell on the earth, everyone who has not been written (gegraptai: perfect passive indicative) the name of them in the book of life of the lamb, the one having been slain from the foundation of the world."
"Has not been written" is the negative of "has been written". "Has been written" could mean "was written into the book sometime in the past and is still in the book". "Not having been written" therefore means "was written into the book at some point on the past but is no longer in the book", or "was never written into the book and remains not written". I prefer the first option.
The name was written into the Lamb's book of life when they began to live, and was blotted out when they took the beasts mark in order to buy and sell.
The greek says, "And will worship him all who dwell on the earth, everyone who has not been written (gegraptai: perfect passive indicative) the name of them in the book of life of the lamb, the one having been slain from the foundation of the world."
"Has not been written" is the negative of "has been written". "Has been written" could mean "was written into the book sometime in the past and is still in the book". "Not having been written" therefore means "was written into the book at some point on the past but is no longer in the book", or "was never written into the book and remains not written". I prefer the first option.
The name was written into the Lamb's book of life when they began to live, and was blotted out when they took the beasts mark in order to buy and sell.
That is a one possible translation of the Greek.
The greek says, "And will worship him all who dwell on the earth, everyone who has not been written (gegraptai: perfect passive indicative) the name of them in the book of life of the lamb, the one having been slain from the foundation of the world."
"Has not been written" is the negative of "has been written". "Has been written" could mean "was written into the book sometime in the past and is still in the book". "Not having been written" therefore means "was written into the book at some point on the past but is no longer in the book", or "was never written into the book and remains not written". I prefer the first option.
The name was written into the Lamb's book of life when they began to live, and was blotted out when they took the beasts mark in order to buy and sell.
The greek says, "And will worship him all who dwell on the earth, everyone who has not been written (gegraptai: perfect passive indicative) the name of them in the book of life of the lamb, the one having been slain from the foundation of the world."
"Has not been written" is the negative of "has been written". "Has been written" could mean "was written into the book sometime in the past and is still in the book". "Not having been written" therefore means "was written into the book at some point on the past but is no longer in the book", or "was never written into the book and remains not written". I prefer the first option.
The name was written into the Lamb's book of life when they began to live, and was blotted out when they took the beasts mark in order to buy and sell.
I just read my bible and get my understanding of God from there, instead of reading Augustinian platonism into what was not a revelation given through Greeks like Plato.
As a path to truth, I recommend discussing actual biblical texts to see what they actually say, instead of swallowing the well-poisoning of other fallible men who want you not to look too closely at the Biblical texts?
As a path to truth, I recommend discussing actual biblical texts to see what they actually say, instead of swallowing the well-poisoning of other fallible men who want you not to look too closely at the Biblical texts?
I am neither Calvinist nor Arminian. I simply read the bible with faith in the Holy Spirit and basic reading comprehension skills and without having preconceived ideas about what it should say.
If you are willing to explore what the Bible actually says, my questions stand. What are your answers?
PaulThomson said:
1. Your proof text does not even mention "chosen/elect." So how can it possibly show that "those God choose will come to the Lord Jesus"?
2. The elect God chose before the creation of the world was His Son. When does the Bible say a person becomes "in Him"?
If you are willing to explore what the Bible actually says, my questions stand. What are your answers?
PaulThomson said:
1. Your proof text does not even mention "chosen/elect." So how can it possibly show that "those God choose will come to the Lord Jesus"?
2. The elect God chose before the creation of the world was His Son. When does the Bible say a person becomes "in Him"?
False dichotomy. Those are not the only two options. Another option is to read the Bible for yourself and just share with others what you see in a passage and listening to them as to what they truly see in it, and comparing perspectives to decide for yourself what the most persuasive message of the passage is so far, and to be open to learning more and perhaps changing opinions. I am neither Arminian nor Calvinist. I don't even know what Arminius taught. I base my understanding of scripture on what the Bible says, not on what some mere man says.
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False dichotomy. Those are not the only two options. Another option is to read the Bible for yourself and just share with others what you see in a passage and listening to them as to what they truly see in it, and comparing perspectives to decide for yourself what the most persuasive message of the passage is so far, and to be open to learning more and perhaps changing opinions. I am neither Arminian nor Calvinist. I don't even know what Arminius taught. I base my understanding of scripture on what the Bible says, not on what some mere man says.
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