Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[FollowerofShiloh]

This also proves you have to HEAR first before the Holy Spirit falls/fells onto/is poured out onto people.

44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.

The GENTILES are the ones who heard
because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Is that what you think the text says? I know I certainly didn't say that?

Ok, where are we missing each other? I said God did not create a people for destruction. You agree or disagree?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Verse 44 shows no one had the Holy Spirit before hearing and it was while hearing the Holy Spirit fell onto them

44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.


That most definitely proves the Reformed doctrine to be False!

 

[Rufus]

Just a little heads up to one and all. I'm a big-hearted, fair guy and want to give all my opponents a running start. (In horse racing, this is called a handicap, which many of you will Shirley need.) What I mean by this is that this announcement will give all of you non-reformed (NR) folks a chance to hit the books, the bible or your favorite NR commentaries or whatever to get up to speed on universal (so called) terms in scripture. I've been debating with myself the best strategy to take in tackling this subject, as there are, obviously, several ways to go about this. But it seems that the Lord is leading me in one direction. He has initially put two Johannine passages in mind that strongly support my premise which is: Often universal terms are used in a narrow, limited sense when carefully exegeted and context is considered. And...for good measure, I plan on tossing in a third text by the same apostle, which is a darling of most here -- yet very often misunderstood -- a more robust version of Jn 3:16 by adding more context to it.

This will take a series of posts to accomplish and some time. My inital post will be an introductory primer into Hermeneutics 101, if you will. In it, I will explain some fundamentally important principles I apply when I interpret any given passage and my rationale.

So, hit the books, everyone! I have given y'all fair warning. In fact, I would encourage all NR folks here to do a group study, since multiple heads are usually better than one...although in this case here....

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Just a little heads up to one and all. I'm a big-hearted, fair guy and want to give all my opponents a running start. (In horse racing, this is called a handicap, which many of you will Shirley need.) What I mean by this is that this announcement will give all of you non-reformed (NR) folks a chance to hit the books, the bible or your favorite NR commentaries or whatever to get up to speed on universal (so called) terms in scripture. I've been debating with myself the best strategy to take in tackling this subject, as there are, obviously, several ways to go about this. But it seems that the Lord is leading me in one direction. He has initially put two Johannine passages in mind that strongly support my premise which is: Often universal terms are used in a narrow, limited sense when carefully exegeted and context is considered. And...for good measure, I plan on tossing in a third text by the same apostle, which is a darling of most here -- yet very often misunderstood -- a more robust version of Jn 3:16 by adding more context to it.

This will take a series of posts to accomplish and some time. My inital post will be an introductory primer into Hermeneutics 101, if you will. In it, I will explain some fundamentally important principles I apply when I interpret any given passage and my rationale.

So, hit the books, everyone! I have given y'all fair warning. In fact, I would encourage all NR folks here to do a group study, since multiple heads are usually better than one...although in this case here....

You can never change the process how the Bible shows it factually happens, j/s

Verse 44 shows no one had the Holy Spirit before hearing and it was while hearing the Holy Spirit fell onto them

44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.

 

[MerSee]

The Crusades part 3?

1 Timothy 3:11-15
11 The women in like manner chaste, not slanderers, but sober, faithful in all things. 12 Let deacons be the husbands of one wife: who rule well their children, and their own houses. 13 For they that have ministered well, shall purchase to themselves a good degree, and much confidence in the faith which is in Christ Jesus. 14 These things I write to thee, hoping that I shall come to thee shortly. 15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

 

[MerSee]

The Crusades part 3?

Matthew 16:16-20
16 Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it [Matthew 16:18] 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. 20 Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ.

 

[MerSee]

The Crusades part 3?

Matthew 18:16-20
16 And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. 17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican [Matthew 18:17] 18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven; and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven. 19 Again I say to you, that if two of you shall consent upon earth, concerning any thing whatsoever they shall ask, it shall be done to them by my Father who is in heaven. 20 For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

1 Timothy 3:11-15
11 The women in like manner chaste, not slanderers, but sober, faithful in all things. 12 Let deacons be the husbands of one wife: who rule well their children, and their own houses. 13 For they that have ministered well, shall purchase to themselves a good degree, and much confidence in the faith which is in Christ Jesus. 14 These things I write to thee, hoping that I shall come to thee shortly. 15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

I can think of a few church structures that would immediately make an impact.

 

[MerSee]

And exactly how are you "getting rid of the heathens"?

Publicly exposing heathens works very well.

 

[Rufus]

Verse 44 shows no one had the Holy Spirit before hearing and it was while hearing the Holy Spirit fell onto them

44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.


That most definitely proves the Reformed doctrine to be False!

No...it only proves that the Holy Spirit's "falling" upon them was concurrent with their hearing. Look at the verb tenses. And this has been my position all along. The text doesn't say that the Holy Spirit fell upon them "after" they believed or after Peter finished speaking. My position all along is that Regeneration (the impartation of spiritual life) is analogous to physical life! When does physical life begin: At conception or at birth? Birth logically, scientifically, theologically and chronologically follows conception. Think about it. (If it's not too much to ask, of course.) The falling of the Holy Spirit during the apostolic age was unique during that transistion period from the Old Covenant to the New, and is likely a dramatic signification of the new birth -- and could have been for Peter's benefit far more than for anyone else's.

 

[brightfame52]

pistis and pistótita are not the same words or meaning. Faith is not a fruit of the Spirit.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

Faith is NOWHERE listed anywhere.

Yes Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

 

[brightfame52]

JEWS cannot hear

Romans 11
“God gave them a spirit of stupor,
eyes that would not see
and ears that would not hear,
down to this very day.”

Every GENTILE can hear until the fulness is finished.

You cant hear the Gospel Spiritually without being born again, regenerated. Faith is fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22


Jesus tells us who hears the words of God Jn 8:47 and some cant

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

No...it only proves that the Holy Spirit's "falling" upon them was concurrent with their hearing. Look at the verb tenses. And this has been my position all along. The text doesn't say that the Holy Spirit fell upon them "after" they believed or after Peter finished speaking. My position all along is that Regeneration (the impartation of spiritual life) is analogous to physical life! When does physical life begin: At conception or at birth? Birth logically, scientifically, theologically and chronologically follows conception. Think about it. (If it's not too much to ask, of course.) The falling of the Holy Spirit during the apostolic age was unique during that transistion period from the Old Covenant to the New, and is likely a dramatic signification of the new birth -- and could have been for Peter's benefit far more than for anyone else's.

The Holy Spirit doesn't need to fall upon people who already have the Spirit of God inside of them.

Like I said, The Bible is correct not this doctrine you are pushing.

Verse 44 shows no one had the Holy Spirit before hearing and it was while hearing the Holy Spirit fell onto them

44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Yes Faith is a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

I can't wait till you stand before God trying to say this to Him.

Faithfulness, not Faith.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

You cant hear the Gospel Spiritually without being born again, regenerated. Faith is fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22


Jesus tells us who hears the words of God Jn 8:47 and some cant

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Verse 44 shows no one had the Holy Spirit before hearing and it was while hearing the Holy Spirit fell onto them

44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.

 

[brightfame52]

I looked up the Strong's since YOU CLAIM it's their definition of pistis

Here's the literal definition of pistis from Strongs Concordance:
pistis
The KJV translates Strong's G4102 in the following manner: faith (239x), assurance (1x), believe (with G1537) (1x), belief (1x), them that believe (1x)

NOTHING ABOUT FAITHFULNESS, only about Faith to believe

Faith is the fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22, In order to hear the words of God, Jesus said you have to be of God , lest you cannot hear His word, Spiritually Jn 8:43,47

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 

[brightfame52]

Verse 44 shows no one had the Holy Spirit before hearing and it was while hearing the Holy Spirit fell onto them

44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.

You cant hear the Gospel Spiritually without being born again, regenerated. Faith is fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22


Jesus tells us who hears the words of God Jn 8:47 and some cant

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

You cant hear the Gospel Spiritually without being born again, regenerated. Faith is fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22


Jesus tells us who hears the words of God Jn 8:47 and some cant

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Only the Jews can't hear, the Gentiles can hear.

Verse 44 shows no one had the Holy Spirit before hearing and it was while hearing the Holy Spirit fell onto them

44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.

the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles

 

[jamessb]

Publicly exposing heathens works very well.

Publicly exposing heathens is your definition of getting rid of them? And who decides who is a heathen and who isn't? Are you referring to people who don't worship the King James translation?