Predestination is misunderstood...

[Mem]

The sin that isn't forgiven is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Unbelief is a sin everyone has committed. If that isn't forgiven, no one would be saved.

People assign falsely to God and distort what is true of God. God is more than just love. You hear all the time that...my God would never send someone to hell. That this is inconsistent with a loving God. And yet, people in large numbers lift up their eyes in hell and He's still a loving God. People say it would be unfair of God not to give everyone an opportunity to get saved. But there have been people groups who never heard the gospel. Yet God remains just. He never claimed to be fair. It just shows how easily people can misrepresent God and assume things about Him that simply aren't true.

God gets just as much glory in the exercise of one attribute as another. He is equally glorified in the exercise of love as He is in the exercise of justice. This is a hard thing for many people to accept.

I came to the conclusion that blasphemy of the holy spirit is unbelief of the highest order this way... Especially considering those that Jesus was speaking to about blaspheming the Holy Spirit knew what Satan was all about, that is, attributing the works of the Spirit to Satan is to call the Holy Spirit a liar and deceiver. This is total rejection and not a 'hmm, I don't know, maybe' sort of unbelief.

And yes, many will lift up their eyes in hell, and gnash their teeth, just as they are being destroyed, forever. Just like Old Yeller when Tommy destroyed him.

 

[Charlie_2024]

there are many verse perhaps, but they will all relate to the message only being given once by God.

It should be simple to understand, those names written in the lambs book of God represent past tense present tense and future tense.

You understand that don't you.

Yes I also understand those verses to be referring to all of God's elect. That obviously includes all of those from the beginning of mankind's history, to the present day and all who are yet to be born.

 

[Cameron143]

I came to the conclusion that blasphemy of the holy spirit is unbelief of the highest order this way... Especially considering those that Jesus was speaking to about blaspheming the Holy Spirit knew what Satan was all about, that is, attributing the works of the Spirit to Satan is to call the Holy Spirit a liar and deceiver. This is total rejection and not a 'hmm, I don't know, maybe' sort of unbelief.

And yes, many will lift up their eyes in hell, and gnash their teeth, just as they are being destroyed, forever. Just like Old Yeller when Tommy destroyed him.

We disagree on what the blasphemy of the Spirit is. But I appreciate you sharing.
Everyone is guilty of unbelief before they are saved. Your understanding seems to condemn everyone.

 

[Genez]

When you try to understand your soul, it's also like trying to understand freewill.

On both cases you will make assumptions.

What we need is to discuss realistic reasoning on what we can clearly understand.

God formed man out of the dust and became a living soul from the dust.

This would also make the inner you a soul.

Well I can tell you the soul that sins is the soul that dies.

When Adam sinned he died.

Which means his soul also sinned.

Was it just his flesh that sinned sir.

So i don't want to make assumptions

Look

Genesis 2:7-9 King James Version (KJV)And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Man became a living soul from the dust not from the elements of heaven sir

If anything sir it would be your conscience that goes to hell..

Two things. The Hebrew states that what was breathed into the nostrils was the breath of lives. Plurality... not singular as many translators wish to have it known.

Here is one student of Hebrew trying to find out why its in the plural and got no help from anyone when he asked why.

https://hermeneutics.stackexchange....-27-read-חַיִּ֑ים-plural-rather-than-singular

That would be a good place to start...

grace and truth......

 

[Magenta]

We disagree on what the blasphemy of the Spirit is. But I appreciate you sharing.
Everyone is guilty of unbelief before they are saved. Your understanding seems to condemn everyone.

Even Paul says he was guilty of blasphemy...

I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and a violent man; yet because
I had acted in ignorance and unbelief, I was shown mercy. 1 Timothy 1:13

 

[Genez]

Let's discuss the word discussion, with the thought in mind we should both come to understand God, in the hope we can come to an agreement


So where talking about predestination and will.

Should we not be talking about God's will, before we can understand, How God determines anything, before we try to understand are own will.

Let us also understand man is under a curse, which is Gods will for man after we sought to have are own will,

This obviously declared that God does not like his will to be messed with.

It then should be obvious, that man before the fall had a will that had more freedom than it does now, before man was placed under a curse.

They where walking free in the garden.

They where free to choose,.

All of which was cut of.

Do ye understand this.

The real question never asked properly is.....

How was God able to not interfere with our volition when creating us in God's mind?
And, how could God avoid the trap of being omniscient, and not creating anyone condemned to the Lake of Fire?

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Yes I also understand those verses to be referring to all of God's elect. That obviously includes all of those from the beginning of mankind's history, to the present day and all who are yet to be born.

Just to clarify, are the one yet to be born already in the book of life by name in your understanding.

 

[Cameron143]

Even Paul says he was guilty of blasphemy...

Did he say he blasphemed against the Spirit or blasphemed in another regard?

 

[Mem]

We disagree on what the blasphemy of the Spirit is. But I appreciate you sharing.
Everyone is guilty of unbelief before they are saved. Your understanding seems to condemn everyone.

There is hope as long as there is Today, but your view seems to dismiss, at least for some, this always present opportunity.

 

[Cameron143]

I came to the conclusion that blasphemy of the holy spirit is unbelief of the highest order this way... Especially considering those that Jesus was speaking to about blaspheming the Holy Spirit knew what Satan was all about, that is, attributing the works of the Spirit to Satan is to call the Holy Spirit a liar and deceiver. This is total rejection and not a 'hmm, I don't know, maybe' sort of unbelief.

And yes, many will lift up their eyes in hell, and gnash their teeth, just as they are being destroyed, forever. Just like Old Yeller when Tommy destroyed him.

I reread the post and noticed your nuance. I would still disagree with your assessment of what it means to blaspheme against the Spirit.

 

[Magenta]

Did he say he blasphemed against the Spirit or blasphemed in another regard?

How many types of blasphemy are there?

 

[Charlie_2024]

Why not analyse the texts in context and show how they prove your point rather than mine. Why do so many people fear reading texts in context and sticking to what they actually say rather than reading into them what their preferred systematic theologian told them they should interpret the text as meaning.

Well, this is the dilemma facing Church. Every denomination seems to have it's own peculiar interpretation of this Bible doctrine. The interpretations, views and narratives are radically different. There's a smorgasbord of interpretations and everyone chooses the one which appeals most to their views.

I'd rather not get into a long and drawn-out debate abut which interpretation is the Biblically correct one. Because highly educated theologians have been debating this topic for around 500 years and they are no closer to finding any common ground today as they were when they started.

I don't think anyone can convince someone else to agree with their private interpretation of those texts. Thankfully the Church doesn't persecute people for having a different view today as it did in times past. Today we can choose a local Church, where we agree with the view of the Minister.

I did a lot of shopping around and found a Church where the preaching lines up with my understanding of the Bible. I guess everyone does the same, so we end up with countless denominations and opposing views and everyone thinks theirs is the only true one and all the others have errors in their interpretation.

After shopping around for a couple of years, I settled into an independent non denominational Reformed Baptist Church. So to answer your question regarding context, I would refer you to the 1689 Reformed Confession Of Faith https://www.the1689confession.com/

The confession outlines the reasons we believe in Gods sovereignty in election and predestination.

 

[Cameron143]

There is hope as long as there is Today, but your view seems to dismiss, at least for some, this always present opportunity.

It's late in the day for me to explain the difference between hope and a various other aspects of salvation. I appreciate your view as well as everyone else's views. I just disagree about what the scripture is teaching.

 

[Mem]

It's late in the day for me to explain the difference between hope and a various other aspects of salvation. I appreciate your view as well as everyone else's views. I just disagree about what the scripture is teaching.

Far be it from me to begrudge anyone's right to be wrong

 

[Cameron143]

How many types of blasphemy are there?

Blasphemy simply means to speak sacrilegiously concerning God. I imagine this could take many forms. Would not considering Christ to be God be blasphemy?

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

The real question never asked properly is.....

How was God able to not interfere with our volition when creating us in God's mind?
And, how could God avoid the trap of being omniscient, and not creating anyone condemned to the Lake of Fire?

He doesn't interfere, he's your father.

It's as simple as that, he's also The creator, what he chooses to do with his creation or man is upto him.

If he sends you to hell you go, if he saves you live.

Adam and Eve where created with innocence, they lost it.

 

[Charlie_2024]

Actually you should read about the Book of Life again. All names are written in the book of life UNTIL THEY ARE REMOVED for refusal to repent and believe.
Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. (Exod 32:32,33)

The above verse could be understood as God referring to the Israelites wondering in the desert, as they were under the old covenant which is not applicable to us under the new covenant.

I'm not stating that categorically as I haven't done a separate study on that particular verse and it's context. And I don't claim to be a theologian, so I can't give ready answers to some of these questions.

I will look into it when I get the time and get back to you

 

[Charlie_2024]

Just to clarify, are the one yet to be born already in the book of life by name in your understanding.

Yes, I was referring to the names of those unborn babies who's names are in the book of life. We don't know who they are but God knows everything before it happens but we only know the past and present. The Bible is clear that there is a finite number of Gods elect in His book.

There's no provision or mention of anyone being added who's name isn't already in His book

 

[Cameron143]

How many types of blasphemy are there?

I read 1 Timothy 1:13. It doesn't qualify how Paul blasphemed; only that he had.

 

[Genez]

He doesn't interfere, he's your father.

It's as simple as that, he's also The creator, what he chooses to do with his creation or man is upto him.

If he sends you to hell you go, if he saves you live.

Adam and Eve where created with innocence, they lost it.

Thank you.... That was "en-lightning."