Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

[brightfame52]

You can hear when the Holy Spirit Inspired message of the Gospel is being preach.

You cant hear the Gospel Spiritually without being born again, regenerated. Faith is fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

Jesus specifically said one must be of God to hear His words Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Vs 43

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

 

[brightfame52]

And not only that one must be one of Jesus' sheep (elect) in order to hear (Jn 10:26-27).

True Dat !

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

You cant hear the Gospel Spiritually without being born again, regenerated. Faith is fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22

Paul said born again is whe we are sealed but that doesn't happen until Your Hear and Believe.

“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.”

1. Heard the Gospel
2. Believed
3. Sealed with Holy Spirit.

Paul's words inspired by the Holy Spirit.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I disagree, but I don't want to rehash everything. Also, please don't speak for me as you did in an earlier post. You actually misrepresented my understanding. It doesn't bother me but because you didn't use @Cameron143, had I not seen it, I couldn't have corrected it. And there may be those who feel insulted when you say you believe a particular writer or speaker of scripture rather than their view. The implication is that you trust scripture and they do not. Most everyone is giving their answers based on their understanding of scripture.
Just friendly advice. We don't agree on some elements of salvation, but I have found the exchange edifying to this point.

No problem,
I will remember from now on when you say you agree there's strings attached

 

[Cameron143]

No problem,
I will remember from now on when you say you agree there's strings attached

Another incorrect statement. Go reread the post.

 

[Mem]

... in Exodus 32:32 Moses implores God, ..."but if not, please blot me out of the book that you have written."
and, in Rev 3:5 the Spirit tells the church at Sardis, "...I will never blot out his name from the Book of Life"
Well, I just noticed while searching that the search engine couldn't retrieve any instances saying anything like, "I will write his name in the Book of Life," but only that more like "I will blot out his name" or "I will not blot out his name."
So going back to the first reference wherein it says, "that you have written," this reality seems to suggest that everyone is written in the Book of Life unless they are blotted out. I mean, how can a name be blotted out of anything if it was never written in it?

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

... in Exodus 32:32 Moses implores God, ..."but if not, please blot me out of the book that you have written."
and, in Rev 3:5 the Spirit tells the church at Sardis, "...I will never blot out his name from the Book of Life"
Well, I just noticed while searching that the search engine couldn't retrieve any instances saying anything like, "I will write his name in the Book of Life," but only that more like "I will blot out his name" or "I will not blot out his name."
So going back to the first reference wherein it says, "that you have written," this reality seems to suggest that everyone is written in the Book of Life unless they are blotted out. I mean, how can a name be blotted out of anything if it was never written in it?

What's interesting, it almost appears that everyone's name is in the Book and then there's reasons to be blotted out.
Which would mean God died for everyone, all humans and they have a chance at Eternal Life until until they remove themselves from the Book of Life.

But the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book.

Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, And not be written with the righteous.

and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life



Also appears only names not ever written in the Book of life are those who will take the Mark of the Beast and worship it

All who dwell on the earth will worship him (the Beast), whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

What's interesting, it almost appears that everyone's name is in the Book and then there's reasons to be blotted out.
Which would mean God died for everyone, all humans and they have a chance at Eternal Life until they remove themselves from the Book of Life.

But the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book.

Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, And not be written with the righteous.

and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life



Also appears only names not ever written in the Book of life are those who will take the Mark of the Beast and worship it

All who dwell on the earth will worship him (the Beast), whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

So much for the Reformed Doctrine of only the Elect have a chance at being saved. These verses show everyone's names but those who will worship the Beast ARE WRITTEN in the Book of Life until you do something to be blotted out of it.

That means EVERYONE from All of Creation have a chance to be Sheep but those who will worship the Beast.

 

[selahsays]

What I would mean by "the natural man" is all the unregenerate in Adam. And according to Paul, no one [in Adam] seeks after God (Rom 3:10). Did Adam seek God after he sinned? Then neither do any of his progeny! Like father, like son!

….but Christ died for us; yes?

 

[selahsays]

Me? I don't identify as a Calvinist or an Arminian. Whoever believes in Jesus Christ will be saved; this is what the Word of God teaches, right? You see, a person who comes to Christ is drawn by His Word. Otherwise, he would never come.

No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

- John 6:44-45,47

 

[jamessb]

So they believed before they had understanding. What did they believe? How does someone believe something they have no understanding of?

I have no idea what you're trying to say. They heard Peter's message, spoken speaking to them directly in their native language, understood it (obviously), and believed it.

BTW, I don't understand what you're getting at. LOL!

 

[jamessb]

I agree. But it's the scripture and not the preacher's understanding of it that is necessary. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. It is not faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the words of the preacher.

And if the preacher is speaking/reading the word of God..? Your argument is absurd.

 

[Cameron143]

I have no idea what you're trying to say. They heard Peter's message, spoken speaking to them directly in their native language, understood it (obviously), and believed it.

BTW, I don't understand what you're getting at. LOL!

My point is that biblical hearing has within it not just hearing audibly but understanding. So in hearing, the understanding is given before belief. This means God is at work in an individual before the individual exercises faith.

 

[Cameron143]

And if the preacher is speaking/reading the word of God..? Your argument is absurd.

That's the point...God is working through the word and not the preacher. It's through the foolishness of preaching, and not through the foolishness of preachers.

 

[jamessb]

My point is that biblical hearing has within it not just hearing audibly but understanding. So in hearing, the understanding is given before belief. This means God is at work in an individual before the individual exercises faith.

There are plenty of people (in the Bible and today) that hear but don't truly understand the message. That is why Jesus sometimes spoke in parables.

 

[Rufus]

Paul said born again is whe we are sealed but that doesn't happen until Your Hear and Believe.

“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.”

1. Heard the Gospel
2. Believed
3. Sealed with Holy Spirit.

Paul's words inspired by the Holy Spirit.

You're conflating "sealed with the Holy Spirit" with regeneration.

... in Exodus 32:32 Moses implores God, ..."but if not, please blot me out of the book that you have written."
and, in Rev 3:5 the Spirit tells the church at Sardis, "...I will never blot out his name from the Book of Life"
Well, I just noticed while searching that the search engine couldn't retrieve any instances saying anything like, "I will write his name in the Book of Life," but only that more like "I will blot out his name" or "I will not blot out his name."
So going back to the first reference wherein it says, "that you have written," this reality seems to suggest that everyone is written in the Book of Life unless they are blotted out. I mean, how can a name be blotted out of anything if it was never written in it?[/QUOTE]

OR...all the elect's names were written in the Book in eternity.

 

[Rufus]

….but Christ died for us; yes?

Who is "us"? Every single person in the world or God's elect?

 

[jamessb]

It is absurd to think that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, doesn't apply to all people. Think about it!!! Is the sacrifice of the Lord, who created the Earth and all life, applicable to only some people? That makes zero sense!

 

[Rufus]

So much for the Reformed Doctrine of only the Elect have a chance at being saved. These verses show everyone's names but those who will worship the Beast ARE WRITTEN in the Book of Life until you do something to be blotted out of it.

That means EVERYONE from All of Creation have a chance to be Sheep but those who will worship the Beast.

Have a "chance" to be saved? Is Salvation a lottery drawing? What you don't understand is that no one would be saved or could be saved or would want to be saved if it weren't for predestination and unconditional election. Every single human being would wind up in hell!

Did God give Ishmael a chance to be saved and to inherit the promises of his father Abraham, and thereby become a child of God? Or what about Esau: Did he get a chance to inherit the promises God made to Abraham and Isaac, and thereby become a child of God? Or for that matter, when he tried to repent and sought after his inheritance by his tears, did God grant him repentance?

 

[Rufus]

It is absurd to think that the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, doesn't apply to all people. Think about it!!! Is the sacrifice of the Lord, who created the Earth and all life, applicable to only some people? That makes zero sense!

No! What makes absolutely no sense is that an omniscient God who knows all things would send his Son into the world to die for each and every person in it, even though he knew in eternity that the vast majority of the world would never come to Christ. Jesus laid down his life only for his sheep who the Father predestined to be saved -- not for any goats who were never predestined for salvation!