The Torah is Still Binding and We Must Obey It
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You are stubborn in your misunderstanding and misrepresentation of this issue.
What you keep missing is that the indwelling Holy Spirit guides the believer in right living such that he/she may remain in right standing with God. The Torah is not the standard of behaviour for the Christian.
What you keep missing is that the indwelling Holy Spirit guides the believer in right living such that he/she may remain in right standing with God. The Torah is not the standard of behaviour for the Christian.
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Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to God's law, so he was much more zealous for obedience to it than the Pharisees and he never criticized anyone for obeying it, but he did criticize them for not obeying it or for not obeying it correctly. For example, in Mark 7:6-9, Jesus said that they were hypocrites for setting aside the commands of God in order to establish their own traditions. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that tithing was something that they ought to be doing while not neglecting weightier matters of the law of justice, mercy, and faithfulness, so he was not opposing their obedience to God's law, but rather he was calling them to have a higher level of obeisance in a manner that is in accordance with its weightier matters.
In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is an central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom. So my motive is to spread the Gospel. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and it sin is the transgression of the Mosaic Law (1 John 3:4), so while we do not earn our salvation as the result of having first obeyed it, having the experience of living in obedience it through faith in Jesus is intrinsically content of his gift of saving us from not having that experience.
Our salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of our sin while we continued to live in sin, so there must be an aspect of our salvation from sin that we are experiencing in the present, which we have by living in obedience to God's law through faith. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so we are not required to have first done those works in order to earn our salvation as the result and we are not required to do those works as the result of having first been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to experience doing those works is the content of His gift of saving us from not having that experience.
People like to cite Romans 10:4 and 10:9-10, but they just as often like to ignore Romans 10:5-8 and the significance that Paul's point in those verses has on how we should understand the surrounding verses. In Romans 10:5-8, Paul reference Deuteronomy 30:11-16 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to saying that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult for us to obey, in regard to saying that obedience to it brings life and a blessing, in regard to what we are agreeing to obey by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God raised him from the dead (Titus 2:14).
In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is an central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom. So my motive is to spread the Gospel. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and it sin is the transgression of the Mosaic Law (1 John 3:4), so while we do not earn our salvation as the result of having first obeyed it, having the experience of living in obedience it through faith in Jesus is intrinsically content of his gift of saving us from not having that experience.
Our salvation from sin would be incomplete if we were only saved from the penalty of our sin while we continued to live in sin, so there must be an aspect of our salvation from sin that we are experiencing in the present, which we have by living in obedience to God's law through faith. In Titus 2:11-13, our salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so we are not required to have first done those works in order to earn our salvation as the result and we are not required to do those works as the result of having first been saved, but rather God graciously teaching us to experience doing those works is the content of His gift of saving us from not having that experience.
People like to cite Romans 10:4 and 10:9-10, but they just as often like to ignore Romans 10:5-8 and the significance that Paul's point in those verses has on how we should understand the surrounding verses. In Romans 10:5-8, Paul reference Deuteronomy 30:11-16 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to saying that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult for us to obey, in regard to saying that obedience to it brings life and a blessing, in regard to what we are agreeing to obey by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God raised him from the dead (Titus 2:14).
Because the law shows how we can never measure up, and we can never meet the fullness of the law without Jesus.
We can go through the actions thinking we will be saved by obeying the law, but it’s only dry actions. That’s equivalent to trying to act drunk when you’re not. When you’re filled with alcohol, it will produce actions even when you’re not trying to be drunk.
The same way with Jesus. When you’ve become saved and Jesus is living through you, He will enable you to obey His law, not just the letter (Torah) but the whole law, which involves the thoughts and intents of the heart (unwritten).
Why are we having to go over this? It’s clear the OP and the first poster are not saved at all and are in some weird kick about some Torah hangup that they probably saw a YouTube or TikTok on.
We can go through the actions thinking we will be saved by obeying the law, but it’s only dry actions. That’s equivalent to trying to act drunk when you’re not. When you’re filled with alcohol, it will produce actions even when you’re not trying to be drunk.
The same way with Jesus. When you’ve become saved and Jesus is living through you, He will enable you to obey His law, not just the letter (Torah) but the whole law, which involves the thoughts and intents of the heart (unwritten).
Why are we having to go over this? It’s clear the OP and the first poster are not saved at all and are in some weird kick about some Torah hangup that they probably saw a YouTube or TikTok on.
In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God. In John 16:13, the Spirit has the role of leading us in truth, in Ezekiel 36:26-27, the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey the Mosaic Law, and in Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth. In John 16:8, the Spirit has the role of convicting us of sin and in Romans 3:20, it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Mosaic Law. In Galatians 5:19-23, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law while all of the fruits of the Spirit are aspects of God's character that are in accordance with it. In Romans 2:25, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcise heart is by observing their obedience to the Mosaic Law and circumcision of the heart is a matter of the Spirit, which is in contrast with Acts 7:51-53, where those who have uncircumcised hearts resist the Spirit are do not obey the Mosaic Law.
I have not said anything in support of establishing our own righteousness apart from Christ and the Spirit. Establishing our own righteousness does not involve relying on anyone else, so it is contradictory to think that we can establish our own righteousness by relying on God's instructions. God's law is not His instructions for how to establish our own righteousness, but rather it is His instructions for how to testify about His righteousness and other aspects of His character. For example, God's law is not His instructions for how to establish our own goodness, but for how to testify about God's goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to Him (Matthew 5:16). Jesus is God's word made flesh, so obediently relying on God's word is the way to rely on him.
I have not said anything in support of establishing our own righteousness apart from Christ and the Spirit. Establishing our own righteousness does not involve relying on anyone else, so it is contradictory to think that we can establish our own righteousness by relying on God's instructions. God's law is not His instructions for how to establish our own righteousness, but rather it is His instructions for how to testify about His righteousness and other aspects of His character. For example, God's law is not His instructions for how to establish our own goodness, but for how to testify about God's goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to Him (Matthew 5:16). Jesus is God's word made flesh, so obediently relying on God's word is the way to rely on him.
I fully concur-
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
Heb 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
Heb 6:3 And this will we do, if God permit.
Rather, God's law is meant to lead the sinner to faith in Christ because it was given to teach us how to have faith in him. For example, by doing good works in obedience to God's law, we are testifying that God is good which is why our good works bring glory to Him (Matthew 5:16), and by testifying that God is good, we are also expressing the belief that God is good, or or in other words, we are believing in him. Another way to put it is that the way to believe in God is by believing that we ought to be doers of His character traits and God's law is His instructions for how to be doers of His character traits, so so being doers of God's character traits in obedience to God's law leads us to Christ because he is the exact image of God's character (Hebrews 1:3).
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