THE REAL BAPTISM
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Yes, you found it in Acts 2 as sign for the jews that the Holy Spirit came. You found it in Acts 8 as sign for the jews that also the Samaritians which are not acceptet from the jews can receive the Holy Spirit. You find it in Acts 10 where it became a sign for the jews that also the nations can receive the Holy Spirit and finaly you find it in Acts 19 as sign for the disciples of John the Baptist.
I prefer to read the text in Acts as it was prefered for. Manly it was a report written down. If there was a tesching in, that it would be said, like in Acts 15.
The teaching that speaking in tongues is a sign that everyone received the Holy Spirit was nowhere taught in the bible to other believers.
Paul, who speaks in tongues more then anybody else taught that not all getting the gift of speaking in tongues. 1.Cor. 12, 29-30.
So how it is possible that today people can claim that the sign that someone is baptised with the Holy Spirit is to speak in tongues?
This is not biblical teaching!!
I prefer to read the text in Acts as it was prefered for. Manly it was a report written down. If there was a tesching in, that it would be said, like in Acts 15.
The teaching that speaking in tongues is a sign that everyone received the Holy Spirit was nowhere taught in the bible to other believers.
Paul, who speaks in tongues more then anybody else taught that not all getting the gift of speaking in tongues. 1.Cor. 12, 29-30.
So how it is possible that today people can claim that the sign that someone is baptised with the Holy Spirit is to speak in tongues?
This is not biblical teaching!!
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Not sure. But we're all baptized in the Holy Spirit if we're saved. You were definitely baptized in the Holy Spirit because you have discernment. That is a wonderful Gift you have 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
As I have learned in the real baptism.
The Baptism of John the Baptist is a Pre Requisite of the Baptism of Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ can't baptize with the Holy Ghost and with Fire without the baptism of John the Baptist.
Because the Baptism of John the Baptist serve as preparation into Jesus Christ Baptism with the Holy Ghost and with Fire.
This is written in the book of Isaiah and wrote by Matthew.
MATTHEW 3:13
3 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
This is how John the Baptist prepare the way of the Lord in order for the Lord to come.
ISAIAH 40:3-4
3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
“Prepare the way of the Lord;
Make straight [a]in the desert
A highway for our God.
4 Every valley shall be exalted
And every mountain and hill brought low;
The crooked places shall be made [b]straight
And the rough places smooth;
After the baptism of John the Baptist (means the way of the Lord is prepared) then, Jesus will come for the Baptism with the Holy Ghost with Fire.
This is what Jesus did on the Day of Pentecost.
He baptized his disciples with The Holy Ghost and with Fire.
Disciples were filled with The Holy Ghost like as of Fire and they started to speak what they call SPEAKING TONGUES..
ACTS 2:1-4
2 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Therefore: In our times today.
If we accept what is all written in the Holy Bible (from Genesis to Revelation) and not ignoring even just 1 word in it. It means we are baptized in John the Baptist Baptism.
If this is the Preparation To The Way Of The Lord (Isaiah 40:3-4)
Then the next is The Divine Revelation from The Lord itself as what Jesus did to his disciples.
MARK 4:34
34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.
We can try to accept all what is written and let us see the result.
As I have learned in the real baptism.
The Baptism of John the Baptist is a Pre Requisite of the Baptism of Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ can't baptize with the Holy Ghost and with Fire without the baptism of John the Baptist.
Because the Baptism of John the Baptist serve as preparation into Jesus Christ Baptism with the Holy Ghost and with Fire.
This is written in the book of Isaiah and wrote by Matthew.
MATTHEW 3:13
3 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
This is how John the Baptist prepare the way of the Lord in order for the Lord to come.
ISAIAH 40:3-4
3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness:
“Prepare the way of the Lord;
Make straight [a]in the desert
A highway for our God.
4 Every valley shall be exalted
And every mountain and hill brought low;
The crooked places shall be made [b]straight
And the rough places smooth;
After the baptism of John the Baptist (means the way of the Lord is prepared) then, Jesus will come for the Baptism with the Holy Ghost with Fire.
This is what Jesus did on the Day of Pentecost.
He baptized his disciples with The Holy Ghost and with Fire.
Disciples were filled with The Holy Ghost like as of Fire and they started to speak what they call SPEAKING TONGUES..
ACTS 2:1-4
2 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Therefore: In our times today.
If we accept what is all written in the Holy Bible (from Genesis to Revelation) and not ignoring even just 1 word in it. It means we are baptized in John the Baptist Baptism.
If this is the Preparation To The Way Of The Lord (Isaiah 40:3-4)
Then the next is The Divine Revelation from The Lord itself as what Jesus did to his disciples.
MARK 4:34
34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.
We can try to accept all what is written and let us see the result.
I would agree with that idea if not for the The Acts 19 account. That record confirms the experience is for all individually. The twelve were rebaptized in water in the name of Jesus, and received the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues. Their experience paralleled those of Jews, Gentiles, and Samaritans some 20+ years previously.
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Matthew 3:11 "I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"
John contrasts his baptism with water, which is symbolic of repentance, with the baptism that Jesus would bring – a baptism with the Holy Spirit (and with fire). This points to a new kind of baptism that goes beyond the physical and symbolic, involving a profound spiritual transformation and empowerment. The Day of Pentecost, as described in Acts 2, marks the fulfillment of this promise when the Holy Spirit descends upon the disciples in Jerusalem. They experience a powerful outpouring of the Holy Spirit, which manifests in speaking in tongues and a bold proclamation of the gospel. This event is seen as the baptism with the Holy Spirit that John the Baptist prophesied about.
On the Day of Pentecost, the apostles received the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages as the Spirit enabled them. Acts 2:1-4 states, "1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." This event is cited as the initial evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Speaking in tongues is understood in this context as speaking in a language that the speaker has not learned, as a supernatural sign of the Holy Spirit's indwelling.
John contrasts his baptism with water, which is symbolic of repentance, with the baptism that Jesus would bring – a baptism with the Holy Spirit (and with fire). This points to a new kind of baptism that goes beyond the physical and symbolic, involving a profound spiritual transformation and empowerment. The Day of Pentecost, as described in Acts 2, marks the fulfillment of this promise when the Holy Spirit descends upon the disciples in Jerusalem. They experience a powerful outpouring of the Holy Spirit, which manifests in speaking in tongues and a bold proclamation of the gospel. This event is seen as the baptism with the Holy Spirit that John the Baptist prophesied about.
On the Day of Pentecost, the apostles received the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other languages as the Spirit enabled them. Acts 2:1-4 states, "1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." This event is cited as the initial evidence of the baptism in the Holy Spirit. Speaking in tongues is understood in this context as speaking in a language that the speaker has not learned, as a supernatural sign of the Holy Spirit's indwelling.
I know you are adamant about the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. You have a habit of continually misrepresenting the scriptures concerning them. Even your response above makes no sense. Don't you agree with what is known as Initial evidence? Fine.
But you did not quote Puals word in 1cor 12:29-30 in context. That has been explained to you many times in many other posts you come to on this topic. You fail to understand what is known as the Unit chapter, in which the context of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit is in chapters 12 through 14. You don't understand what is normative or descriptive concerning the text; for those who do not know you, that has been told to you, shown to you many times. Please continue with your opinion.
Look at how the Baptist were formed. They disagreed with one man and began a new leg. Even in the USA the Southern Baptist was for slavery and the northern Baptist were against it so they became 2 different Baptist. I believe the followers of Calvin and Wesley who disagreed did the same thing. Broke off and started a new leg with their own doctrines to fit their personal beliefs.
Just a little insight:
One of these friars was a young Spaniard by the name of Saint Vincent Ferrer, a native of Valencia, who supposedly spoke Limousin the local dialect. The Biographers of Ferrer tell of his ministry reaching and converting people all over Western Europe, many in isolated areas. He was reported to have been understood in the Alpine regions and other parts of Switzerland, in Brittany and Fanders, in the Savoy and Lyons, by people who know only the local tongue. While in Genoa he spoke to a group of men and women of mixed linguistic backgrounds, all of whom were said to have heard him in their own language. The Catholic Encyclopedia notes that many biographers of Saint Vincent have held that he was endowed with the Gift of tongues. This is perhaps the closest parallel of Acts the second chapter that we find recorded in early Church History.
“Soon following Luther came the French sect known as the Jansenists. This group arose in the Roman Catholic Church after the Council of Trent and was subjected to persecution following the issuance in 1705 of a bill condemning them. After persecution began, speaking in tongues was reported among this group.”
In this same period of time the Encyclopedia Britannica tells of tongues “among the converts of Wesley and Whitefield.” John Wesley once wrote a protest against a Dr. Middleton who wrote “after the Apostolic time, there is not, in all history, one instance…of any person who had even exercised that gift (tongues).” Wesley replied, “Sir, your memory fails you again, it has been heard more than once no further off than the valleys of Dauphiny.
Another movement that displayed Pentecostal characteristics developed in England during the seventeenth century. They were called the Society of Friends or Quakers. W.C. Braithwaite, in “The Message and Mission of Quakerism,” quotes from Burrough’s preface to Great Mystery:
“While waiting upon the Lord in silence, as often we did for many hours together, we received often the pouring down of the Spirit upon us, and our hearts were glad and our tongues
loosed and our mouth opened, and we spake with new tongues as the Lord gave us utterance, and as His Spirit led us, which was poured down upon us, on sons and daughters, and the glory of the Father was revealed. And then began we to sing praise to the Lord God Almighty and to the Lamb forever “
Of all the groups mentioned during the Reformation, none has received as much notice as the Irvingites, a sect which developed in Great Britain about 1825. Edward Irving, a popular Presbyterian minister in London played an important role in the movement. When several demonstrations of religious enthusiasm occurred in his services, he encouraged them, believing they were of divine origin.
“The Gift of Tongues” was soon to follow and became a part of his services. A strong faction formed against Irving and his followers and ultimately they were turned away from the Presbyterian Church, The result was the formation of the Catholic Apostolic Church, often called “Irvingites” because of the leadership of Edward Irving. This body wrote a “tongues” tenet in its theology.”
Back in England, the report of tongues began to appear in the wake of the preaching campaigns of Dwight L. Moody. Dr. R. Boyd, who was a very close friend of the famous evangelist writes concerning one instance:
When I got to the rooms of the Young Men’s Christian Association in Victoria Hall, London, I found the meeting on fire: The young men were speaking in tongues, prophesying.
As the nineteenth century come to a close, space limits me from listing all the instances of tongues that took place. In 1875 R.B. Swan writes that he and others spoke in tongues. 1879 – W.J. Walthall also receives the baptism of the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues. In 1880 in Kara Kara, Armenia a strong Pentecostal Movement breaks out with speaking in tongues. The same year tongues is reported in Switzerland, and on and on. This also includes the revival of Topeka Kansas in the 1900’s. All of them are a part of the vast spreading movement of the spirit of God as these last days grow to a close. No one can deny that there is definite historical proof to the presence of tongues in the Church throughout the centuries. God has always had a people called out for his namesake. His word has always been a part of the hearts of men, and so it continues today.
One of these friars was a young Spaniard by the name of Saint Vincent Ferrer, a native of Valencia, who supposedly spoke Limousin the local dialect. The Biographers of Ferrer tell of his ministry reaching and converting people all over Western Europe, many in isolated areas. He was reported to have been understood in the Alpine regions and other parts of Switzerland, in Brittany and Fanders, in the Savoy and Lyons, by people who know only the local tongue. While in Genoa he spoke to a group of men and women of mixed linguistic backgrounds, all of whom were said to have heard him in their own language. The Catholic Encyclopedia notes that many biographers of Saint Vincent have held that he was endowed with the Gift of tongues. This is perhaps the closest parallel of Acts the second chapter that we find recorded in early Church History.
“Soon following Luther came the French sect known as the Jansenists. This group arose in the Roman Catholic Church after the Council of Trent and was subjected to persecution following the issuance in 1705 of a bill condemning them. After persecution began, speaking in tongues was reported among this group.”
In this same period of time the Encyclopedia Britannica tells of tongues “among the converts of Wesley and Whitefield.” John Wesley once wrote a protest against a Dr. Middleton who wrote “after the Apostolic time, there is not, in all history, one instance…of any person who had even exercised that gift (tongues).” Wesley replied, “Sir, your memory fails you again, it has been heard more than once no further off than the valleys of Dauphiny.
Another movement that displayed Pentecostal characteristics developed in England during the seventeenth century. They were called the Society of Friends or Quakers. W.C. Braithwaite, in “The Message and Mission of Quakerism,” quotes from Burrough’s preface to Great Mystery:
“While waiting upon the Lord in silence, as often we did for many hours together, we received often the pouring down of the Spirit upon us, and our hearts were glad and our tongues
loosed and our mouth opened, and we spake with new tongues as the Lord gave us utterance, and as His Spirit led us, which was poured down upon us, on sons and daughters, and the glory of the Father was revealed. And then began we to sing praise to the Lord God Almighty and to the Lamb forever “
Of all the groups mentioned during the Reformation, none has received as much notice as the Irvingites, a sect which developed in Great Britain about 1825. Edward Irving, a popular Presbyterian minister in London played an important role in the movement. When several demonstrations of religious enthusiasm occurred in his services, he encouraged them, believing they were of divine origin.
“The Gift of Tongues” was soon to follow and became a part of his services. A strong faction formed against Irving and his followers and ultimately they were turned away from the Presbyterian Church, The result was the formation of the Catholic Apostolic Church, often called “Irvingites” because of the leadership of Edward Irving. This body wrote a “tongues” tenet in its theology.”
Back in England, the report of tongues began to appear in the wake of the preaching campaigns of Dwight L. Moody. Dr. R. Boyd, who was a very close friend of the famous evangelist writes concerning one instance:
When I got to the rooms of the Young Men’s Christian Association in Victoria Hall, London, I found the meeting on fire: The young men were speaking in tongues, prophesying.
As the nineteenth century come to a close, space limits me from listing all the instances of tongues that took place. In 1875 R.B. Swan writes that he and others spoke in tongues. 1879 – W.J. Walthall also receives the baptism of the Holy Spirit, speaking in tongues. In 1880 in Kara Kara, Armenia a strong Pentecostal Movement breaks out with speaking in tongues. The same year tongues is reported in Switzerland, and on and on. This also includes the revival of Topeka Kansas in the 1900’s. All of them are a part of the vast spreading movement of the spirit of God as these last days grow to a close. No one can deny that there is definite historical proof to the presence of tongues in the Church throughout the centuries. God has always had a people called out for his namesake. His word has always been a part of the hearts of men, and so it continues today.
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The same I could say from you! It is interesting that in church history this was not taught. F e. the reformatoric time was a very important time for the church. Bible again became priority. Calvin, Zwingli, Luther Menno Simons were scholars and founder of different denominations. They knew the bible. They knew about Acts and 1st corinthians. None of them taught that speaking in tongues is the sign that someone is baptised with the Holy Spirit. Nor Acts 2 was repeatet when the " anapaptists" baptised grown up believers.
And then 3-4 hundret years later, in Azuza a woman named Agnes Ozman is called the first person who receives the gift of speaking in tongues as sign for to be baptised with the Holy Spirit. And since then many movements came on with strange signs, which we can find in pagan religions, too.
And then 3-4 hundret years later, in Azuza a woman named Agnes Ozman is called the first person who receives the gift of speaking in tongues as sign for to be baptised with the Holy Spirit. And since then many movements came on with strange signs, which we can find in pagan religions, too.
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Yes, and it encludes cults like the montanists, and irving and the New Apostolic church. F.e.
This is for me no proof.
If it would be like in Acts, then independ from an teaching or denomination, an believer would get the gift of speaking in tongues by receiving the Holy Spirit. I know meanwhile christians since more then 30 years from differentbackgrounds. Non of them have the gift of speaking in tongues!
This is for me no proof.
If it would be like in Acts, then independ from an teaching or denomination, an believer would get the gift of speaking in tongues by receiving the Holy Spirit. I know meanwhile christians since more then 30 years from differentbackgrounds. Non of them have the gift of speaking in tongues!
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God is God. Of course he can today use in certain circumstances all gifts he has createt.
But I cant see it in the pentecostal and charismatic movements which teach it in this way.
I believe that an believer who received the Holy Spirit receives a gift for to serve.
But I cant find it taught in the bible to other believers the sign that someone has received the Holy Spirit is the gift of speaking in tounges.
But I cant see it in the pentecostal and charismatic movements which teach it in this way.
I believe that an believer who received the Holy Spirit receives a gift for to serve.
But I cant find it taught in the bible to other believers the sign that someone has received the Holy Spirit is the gift of speaking in tounges.
You continue to bring up that argument in relation to church history. News Flash: Paul taught the gifts of the Holy Spirit. You can find this in the Word of God, 1 Corinthians chapters 12 through 14, and also in Ephesians chapter 4: 7-16.
FYI, The Bible is the authoritative word of God, not the church FATHERS OR THE CHURCH AGE.
Jesus IS THE FOUNDATIONAL TRUTH OF God's Word and the Foundation on which all Scripture must be built. You have been shown that many times. You bring up only movements that is known as Pentacostel movements. Let look at this from your perspective
Church History :
- 325 AD: The First Council of Nicea is never mentioned in the Word of God. It was a movement to protect the deity of Christ and other foundational truths.
- 1150 AD, The universities of Paris and Oxford were founded. The word university is not mentioned in the word of God, nor do Sementary Church fathers speak on that either. It was part of a movement.
- 1517 AD The Reformation, 16th century: The word is not even mentioned in the Word of God because it was an event in Church history, nor did the Bible Teach the Reformation. Oops! It was a movement that Palpcarp Never taught, nor did Clement of Rome, nor did Ignatius of Antioch.
- 1649: Cambridge Platform
- 1678: Bunyan writes the Pilgrim’s Progress
- 1740: Great Awakening peaks
- 1804: British and Foreign Bible Society formed
- 1811: Campbells begin Restoration Movement
- 1833: John Keble’s sermon launches Oxford Movement
- 1857: Prayer Meeting Revival begins in New York
- 1906: Azusa Street revival
- 1934: Wycliffe Bible Translators founded
- 1942: National Association of Evangelicals forms
- 1948: World Council of Churches organized
To your false claims, you said here I will address it :
"And since then many movements came on with strange signs, which we can find in pagan religions, too."
Only those like you and Mr. John McArthur are like him. had to seek Pagan Doctrine to try and disprove the Gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Calling the action of someone you see on TV who Preaches the Gospel and the Gifts of God for money. You will not find a more vocal preacher than myself on that point. However, Mr. McAarthur is the last person I would listen to about money when he wears $1000-$2000 Dallor suits.
You did not use the word of God to disprove the gifts of the Holy, but they have stopped. He had to go outside of the word of God and Find the pagan belief of the devil and try to make the gifts of the Holy Spirit the same as those pagan beliefs. Your willingness to try and tie that to all Pentecostals is shameful. I am calling out on it as I have before.