Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,470
591
113
Reply #2

In order to be saved and have eternal life, a person must accept Jesus' sacrifice on her/his behalf. That does not negate the universal sacrifice! Jesus died for the entire world!

This is so fundamental, I am surprised that you don't understand it.
Where that come from ? Christ saved His People from their sins, God accepted His sacrifice of Himself for their sins, their debt is paid in full, so they experience Salvation.
 

MerSee

Active member
Jan 13, 2024
796
119
43
The death of Jesus Christ on the cross wasn't in vain because He shed it only for believers/elect and not the Judas Iscariot types of the world.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
715
113
The death of Jesus Christ on the cross wasn't in vain because He shed it only for believers/elect and not the Judas Iscariot types of the world.
If it's in the Bible IT IS FROM GOD

What the Bible factually claims is this, """who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe”"" 1 Tim. 4:10
who is the Savior of all men + those who believe


1 Timothy 4 shows us God died for EVERYONE, not just the Elect!

If you disagree with the Bible you call God a LIAR!
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,080
6,883
113
62
If it's in the Bible IT IS FROM GOD

What the Bible factually claims is this, """who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe”"" 1 Tim. 4:10
who is the Savior of all men + those who believe


1 Timothy 4 shows us God died for EVERYONE, not just the Elect!

If you disagree with the Bible you call God a LIAR!
Just a couple of questions that I've yet to get a satisfactory answer on:

Is God just?
Is it just to hold someone accountable for a debt that has been paid?
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
715
113
Just a couple of questions that I've yet to get a satisfactory answer on:

Is God just?
Is it just to hold someone accountable for a debt that has been paid?
That's why there is the Great White Throne Judgement.
He gives man every chance to repent until that man physically dies.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
715
113
Romans 1 even shows us God doesn't give a "reprobate mind" to people until AFTER they reject Him.

25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

God gives man chance after chance and when they just keep rejecting Him he allows this to happen

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,

25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;

27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,080
6,883
113
62
That's why there is the Great White Throne Judgement.
He gives man every chance to repent until that man physically dies.
I don't mean to sound ungrateful that you took the time to answer, but this doesn't answer the questions I asked. And it's reflective of the answers I get...perfectly good answers to questions I haven't asked.
Will you simply answer the questions I asked?
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
715
113
I don't mean to sound ungrateful that you took the time to answer, but this doesn't answer the questions I asked. And it's reflective of the answers I get...perfectly good answers to questions I haven't asked.
Will you simply answer the questions I asked?
I feel like you're trying to trap me. I have the words of God in 1 Timothy that says God is the Savior of ALL Men + the those who Believe.

That seems to answers your questions better than I can.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,230
2,208
113
I don't mean to sound ungrateful that you took the time to answer, but this doesn't answer the questions I asked. And it's reflective of the answers I get...perfectly good answers to questions I haven't asked.
Will you simply answer the questions I asked?
You keep asking this so there is no question that you believe the sins of the lost' are left unpaid. However, the introduction of Isaiah 55 begins with an invitation to the needy (and, spiritually, isn't that is all the world?), "“Come, all you who are thirsty, come to the waters; and you without money, come, buy, and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without cost! " And verse 3 directs those whom are thirsty, "Incline your ear and come to Me; listen, so that your soul may live." So, it seems that one can buy without money, but that is not that there is actually nothing to pay, as there is attention, and respect of the invitation (might this be alluding to the same as putting on our wedding clothes? :unsure:).
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,470
591
113
The death of Jesus Christ on the cross wasn't in vain because He shed it only for believers/elect and not the Judas Iscariot types of the world.
Thats limited atonement, He died only for them who become believers in Him, the ones who dont become believers in Him, He never knew them nor died for them.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
715
113
Thats limited atonement, He died only for them who become believers in Him, the ones who dont become believers in Him, He never knew them nor died for them.
What the Bible factually claims is this, """who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe”"" 1 Tim. 4:10
who is the Savior of all men + those who believe


1 Timothy 4 shows us God died for EVERYONE, not just the Elect!
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,470
591
113
@FollowerofShiloh

What the Bible factually claims is this, """who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe”"" 1 Tim. 4:10
who is the Savior of all men + those who believe


1 Timothy 4 shows us God died for EVERYONE, not just the Elect!
Thats just the elect
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,470
591
113
Romans 1 even shows us God doesn't give a "reprobate mind" to people until AFTER they reject Him.

25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

God gives man chance after chance and when they just keep rejecting Him he allows this to happen

24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,

25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;

27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done
Thats total depravity, every man born like that. No hope for them unless they elect
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,080
6,883
113
62
I feel like you're trying to trap me. I have the words of God in 1 Timothy that says God is the Savior of ALL Men + the those who Believe.

That seems to answers your questions better than I can.
I understand your reticence. And that may be the case with some here, but that isn't my goal. I am trying to make a point, however. We all know God is just. And we all know that it is injustice to accept payment for a debt and still demand payment. But to put both together would cause some to open themselves up in their own assumptions.
But thanks for responding honestly.
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
4,321
715
113
Thats total depravity, every man born like that. No hope for them unless they elect
Romans 1:19 because the known of God is manifest among them, for God has revealed it to them

You cannot be depraved if God is revealing Himself to you.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Nov 21, 2020
6,470
591
113
You definitely do not understand English.
"""who is the Savior of all men, and especially of those who believe”"" 1 Tim. 4:10

Notice 2 types of people God is speaking about here.
Its the elect, the word especially just clarifies who God is the Saviour of.

Its the greek word malista :

  1. especially, chiefly, most of all, above all
most (in the greatest degree) or particularly

in a particular manner; specifically