the Sabbath

Magenta · Feb 27, 2024

That is a terrible miscalculation based on a lack of understanding perpetuated by, um, well, a dearth of knowledge.

Many sources say many things and many of those things are blatant falsehoods .

I have posted this before so am simply copy/pasting from an earlier post:

That is a false number based on an egregious misunderstanding.

That misunderstanding gets thrown around as if it were truth when it is not.
Even under the most liberal definition of what constitutes a denomination, there are
nowhere close to 33,000 - 45,000 denominations. Many of these groups are merely subgroups
of larger denominational groups such as Presbyterians, Methodists, Lutherans, or Baptists.

Evangelical apologist Eric Svendsen exposes the falsehood of this fabrication. Briefly:

Svendsen shows that the source of this figure is the World Christian Encyclopedia (David A. Barrett; Oxford
University Press, 1982). Barrett cites a figure of 20,780 denominations. Still, not all of them are Protestants.
According to Barrett, Protestants account for 8,196 (and incidentally, Roman Catholics account for 223).

However, even this figure of eight thousand Protestant denominations is misleading, for Barrett defines
"distinct denominations" as any group that might have a slightly different emphasis than another group.
The distinction is made on the basis of jurisdiction, rather than differing beliefs and practices.

Barrett breaks down the Protestant bloc into twenty-one major "traditions" which are much closer to what we usually
mean by the word "denominations." It is interesting that Roman Catholics are subdivided into sixteen such "traditions."

Svendsen concludes, "In short, Roman Catholic apologists have hurriedly, carelessly - and, as a result, irresponsibly - glanced
at Barrett's work, found a large number (22,189), and arrived at all sorts of absurdities that Barrett never concluded." source

SabbathBlessing · Feb 27, 2024

vassal said:

Yes, it sure does, the Sabbath being the biggest one. We are told keeping God’s commandments would not be the majority Rev 12:17. Sometimes it’s best just to plant the seed and wipe your feet and let the Lord do the rest.

God bless friend!

rrcn · Feb 27, 2024

Magenta said:

The Bible doesn’t say Thou shalt not kill in either yet:
[Gen 4:8-11 KJV] 8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him. 9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where [is] Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: [Am] I my brother's keeper? 10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground. 11 And now [art] thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;

Magenta · Feb 27, 2024

rrcn said:

If those who live by the law are heirs, faith is useless and the promise is worthless,
because the law brings wrath. And where there is no law, there is no transgression.

Inquisitor · Feb 27, 2024

Johann said:

Wow, your going to be a lonely fellow.

Walk the talk, has anyone ever done that.

I thought it was, do as I say not as I do.

Inquisitor · Feb 27, 2024

Magenta said:

That is a terrible miscalculation based on a lack of understanding perpetuated by, um, well, a dearth of knowledge.

Many sources say many things and many of those things are blatant falsehoods .

I have posted this before so am simply copy/pasting from an earlier post:

That is a false number based on an egregious misunderstanding.

That misunderstanding gets thrown around as if it were truth when it is not.
Even under the most liberal definition of what constitutes a denomination, there are
nowhere close to 33,000 - 45,000 denominations. Many of these groups are merely subgroups
of larger denominational groups such as Presbyterians, Methodists, Lutherans, or Baptists.

Evangelical apologist Eric Svendsen exposes the falsehood of this fabrication. Briefly:

Svendsen shows that the source of this figure is the World Christian Encyclopedia (David A. Barrett; Oxford
University Press, 1982). Barrett cites a figure of 20,780 denominations. Still, not all of them are Protestants.
According to Barrett, Protestants account for 8,196 (and incidentally, Roman Catholics account for 223).

However, even this figure of eight thousand Protestant denominations is misleading, for Barrett defines
"distinct denominations" as any group that might have a slightly different emphasis than another group.
The distinction is made on the basis of jurisdiction, rather than differing beliefs and practices.

Barrett breaks down the Protestant bloc into twenty-one major "traditions" which are much closer to what we usually
mean by the word "denominations." It is interesting that Roman Catholics are subdivided into sixteen such "traditions."

Svendsen concludes, "In short, Roman Catholic apologists have hurriedly, carelessly - and, as a result, irresponsibly - glanced
at Barrett's work, found a large number (22,189), and arrived at all sorts of absurdities that Barrett never concluded." source

You omitted the Orthodox church which departed the Western Roman Church in 1000 AD.

Why does the Orthodox Church always get left out?

It was not as though every church in the second century had the same doctrine.

Paul was battling legalism, heresy, and doctrinal disputes, in the churches among his letters.

That is why the Creeds existed to establish the fundamental doctrines.

Inquisitor · Feb 27, 2024

SabbathBlessing said:

Would it be more honest to say. Plant your interpretation and wipe your feet, you never know what may happen.

Inquisitor · Feb 27, 2024

Asked ChatGPT the following question.

So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But that does not detract from saved by grace through faith. It simply means faith without works is not faith in the first place.

ChatGPT

Exactly, you've captured the essence of the theological perspective often expressed in passages like James 2:17-18. The idea is that genuine faith, if it is truly alive and active, naturally produces good works. Faith and works are seen as interconnected and complementary components of a believer's life.

The notion that faith without works is "dead" in James' epistle is not meant to contradict the understanding of salvation by grace through faith. Instead, it emphasizes that true faith is transformative and manifests itself in a changed life. Faith, in this view, is not just intellectual assent or verbal agreement but is a dynamic and living reality that produces actions consistent with the teachings and values of that faith.

Johann · Feb 28, 2024

Inquisitor said:

James says, “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also” (James 2:26). Faith without works is a dead faith because the lack of works reveals an unchanged life or a spiritually dead heart. There are many verses that say that true saving faith will result in a transformed life, that faith is demonstrated by the works we do. How we live reveals what we believe and whether the faith we profess to have is a living faith.

James 2:14–26 is sometimes taken out of context in an attempt to create a works-based system of righteousness, but that is contrary to many other passages of Scripture. James is not saying that our works make us righteous before God but that real saving faith is demonstrated by good works. Works are not the cause of salvation; works are the evidence of salvation. Faith in Christ always results in good works. The person who claims to be a Christian but lives in willful disobedience to Christ has a false or dead faith and is not saved. Paul basically says the same thing in 1 Corinthians 6:9–10. James contrasts two different types of faith—true faith that saves and false faith that is dead.

Many profess to be Christians, but their lives and priorities indicate otherwise. Jesus put it this way: “By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. So by their fruits you will know them. Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’ Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers’” (Matthew 7:16–23).

Notice that the message of Jesus is the same as the message of James. Obedience to God is the mark of true saving faith. James uses the examples of Abraham and Rahab to illustrate the obedience that accompanies salvation. Simply saying we believe in Jesus does not save us, nor does religious service. What saves us is the Holy Spirit’s regeneration of our hearts, and that regeneration will invariably be seen in a life of faith featuring ongoing obedience to God.

Misunderstanding the relationship of faith and works comes from not understanding what the Bible teaches about salvation. There are really two errors in regards to works and faith. The first error is “easy believism,” the teaching that, as long as a person prayed a prayer or said, “I believe in Jesus,” at some point in his life, then he is saved, no matter what. So a person who, as a child, raised his hand in a church service is considered saved, even though he has never shown any desire to walk with God since and is, in fact, living in blatant sin.

This teaching, sometimes called “decisional regeneration,” is dangerous and deceptive. The idea that a profession of faith saves a person, even if he lives like the devil afterwards, assumes a new category of believer called the “carnal Christian.” This allows various ungodly lifestyles to be excused: a man may be an unrepentant adulterer, liar, or bank robber, but he’s saved; he’s just “carnal.” Yet, as we can see in James 2, an empty profession of faith—one that does not result in a life of obedience to Christ—is in reality a dead faith that cannot save.

The other error in regards to works and faith is to attempt to make works part of what justifies us before God. The mixture of works and faith to earn salvation is totally contrary to what Scripture teaches. Romans 4:5 says, “To him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness.” James 2:26 says, “Faith without works is dead.” There is no conflict between these two passages. We are justified by grace through faith, and the natural result of faith in the heart is works that all can see. The works that follow salvation do not make us righteous before God; they simply flow from the regenerated heart as naturally as water flows from a spring.

Salvation is a sovereign act of God whereby an unregenerate sinner has the “washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit” poured out on him (Titus 3:5), thereby causing him to be born again (John 3:3). When this happens, God gives the forgiven sinner a new heart and puts a new spirit within him (Ezekiel 36:26). God removes his sin-hardened heart of stone and fills him with the Holy Spirit. The Spirit then causes the saved person to walk in obedience to God’s Word (Ezekiel 36:26–27).

Faith without works is dead because it reveals a heart that has not been transformed by God. When we have been regenerated by the Holy Spirit, our lives will demonstrate that new life. Our works will be characterized by obedience to God. Unseen faith will become seen by the production of the fruit of the Spirit in our lives (Galatians 5:22). Christians belong to Christ, the Good Shepherd. As His sheep we hear His voice and follow Him (John 10:26–30).

Faith without works is dead because faith results in a new creation, not a repetition of the same old patterns of sinful behavior. As Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians 5:17, “If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.”

Faith without works is dead because it comes from a heart that has not been regenerated by God. Empty professions of faith have no power to change lives. Those who pay lip service to faith but who do not possess the Spirit will hear Christ Himself say to them, “I never knew you. Depart from me, you evildoers” (Matthew 7:23).
https://www.gotquestions.org/faith-without-works-dead.html

James 2:14-15 – What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food.

James 2:17-18 – In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.

Galatians 5:6 – For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Matthew 7:21 – “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

1 John 3:7-8 – Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work.

1 John 3:10 – This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not God’s child, nor is anyone who does not love their brother and sister.”

Johann · Feb 28, 2024

Inquisitor said:

Dead Faith (2:14–17)
Even in the early church there were those who claimed
they had saving faith, yet did not possess salvation.
Wherever there is the true, you will find the counterfeit. Jesus warned, “Not every one that saith unto me,
‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in
heaven” (Matt. 7:21).
James 2
863
People with dead faith substitute words for deeds.
They know the correct vocabulary for prayer and testimony, and can even quote the right verses from the
Bible, but their walk does not measure up to their talk.
They think that their words are as good as works, and
they are wrong.

James gave a simple illustration. A poor believer
came into a fellowship, without proper clothing and in
need of food. The person with dead faith noticed the
visitor and saw his needs, but he did not do anything
to meet the needs. All he did was say a few pious words!
“Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed” (James
2:16 niv). But the visitor went away just as hungry and
naked as he came in!

Food and clothing are basic needs of every human
being, whether he is saved or unsaved. “And having
food and raiment let us be therewith content” (1 Tim.
6:8). “Therefore take no thought, saying, ‘What shall
we eat?’ or, ‘What shall we drink?’ or, ‘Wherewithal
shall we be clothed?’ … for your heavenly Father
knoweth that ye have need of all these things” (Matt.
6:31–32). Jacob included these basic needs in his
prayer to God: “If God will be with me … and will give
me bread to eat, and raiment to put on” (Gen. 28:20).
As believers, we have an obligation to help meet the
needs of people, no matter who they may be. “As we
have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all
men, especially unto them who are of the household of
faith” (Gal. 6:10). “Inasmuch as ye have done it unto
one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it
unto me
” (Matt. 25:40).

To help a person in need is an expression of love,
and faith works by love (Gal. 5:6). The apostle John
emphasized this aspect of good works. “If anyone has
material possessions and sees his brother in need but
has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in
him? Dear children, let us not love with words or
tongue but with actions and truth” (1 John 3:17–18
niv). The priest and Levite in the parable of the good
Samaritan each had religious training, but neither of
them paused to assist the dying man at the side of the
road (Luke 10:25–37). Each of them would defend his
faith, yet neither demonstrated that faith in loving
works.

The question in James 2:14 should read, “Can that
kind of faith save him?” What kind? The kind of faith
that is never seen in practical works. The answer is no!
Any declaration of faith that does not result in a
changed life and good works is a false declaration. That
kind of faith is dead faith. “Even so faith, if it hath not
works, is dead, being alone” (James 2:17). The great
theologian John Calvin wrote, “It is faith alone that
justifies, but faith that justifies can never be alone.”
The word alone in James 2:17 simply means “by itself.”
True saving faith can never be by itself: it always brings
life, and life produces good works.

The person with dead faith has only an intellectual
experience. In his mind, he knows the doctrines of salvation, but he has never submitted himself to God and
trusted Christ for salvation. He knows the right words,
but he does not back up his words with his works.

Faith in Christ brings life (John 3:16), and where there
is life there must be growth and fruit. Three times in
this paragraph, James warned us that “faith without
works is dead” (James 2:17, 20, 26).
Beware of a mere intellectual faith. No man can
come to Christ by faith and remain the same any more
than he can come into contact with a 220-volt wire and
remain the same. “He that hath the Son hath life; and
he that hath not the Son of God hath not life” (1 John
5:12). Dead faith is not saving faith. Dead faith is
counterfeit faith and lulls the person into a false confidence of eternal life.

Demonic Faith (2:18–19)
James wanted to shock his complacent readers, so he
used demons as his illustration. In recent years the
church has rediscovered the reality and activity of
demons. When our Lord was ministering on earth, He
often cast out demons, and He gave that power to His
disciples. Paul often confronted demonic forces in his
ministry, and in Ephesians 6:10–20, he admonished
the early Christians to claim God’s protection and
defeat the spiritual forces of wickedness.
It comes as a shock to people that demons have
faith! What do they believe? For one thing, they believe
in the existence of God; they are neither atheists nor
agnostics. They also believe in the deity of Christ.
Whenever they met Christ when He was on earth, they
bore witness to His sonship (Mark 3:11–12). They
believe in the existence of a place of punishment (Luke
8:31), and they also recognize Jesus Christ as the Judge
(Mark 5:1–13). They submit to the power of His
Word.
“Hear, O Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord!”
(Deut. 6:4) This was the daily affirmation of faith of the
godly Jew. “You believe that there is one God. Good!
Even the demons believe that—and shudder” (James
2:19 niv). The man with dead faith was touched only
in his intellect, but the demons are touched also in their
emotions. They believe and tremble.

But it is not a saving experience to believe and
tremble. A person can be enlightened in his mind and
even stirred in his heart and be lost forever. True saving
faith involves something more, something that can be
seen and recognized: a changed life. “Show me thy
faith without thy works,” challenged James, “and I will
show thee my faith by my works” (James 2:18).
How could a person show his faith without works?
Can a dead sinner perform good works? Impossible!
When you trust Christ, you are “created in Christ Jesus
unto good works, which God hath before ordained
that we should walk in them” (Eph. 2:10). Being a
Christian involves trusting Christ and living for Christ;
you receive the life, then you reveal the life. Faith that is
barren is not saving faith. The Greek word translated
“dead” in James 2:20 carries the meaning of “barren or
idle,” like money drawing no interest.
James 2
864
James has introduced us to two kinds of faith that
can never save the sinner: dead faith (the intellect
alone), and demonic faith (the intellect and the emotions). He closes this section by describing the only
kind of faith that can save the sinner—dynamic faith.

Dynamic Faith (2:20–26)
Dynamic faith is faith that is real, faith that has power,
faith that results in a changed life.
James described this true saving faith. To begin with,
dynamic saving faith is based on the Word of God. We
receive our spiritual rebirth through God’s Word
(James 1:18). We receive the Word and this saves us
(James 1:21). “So then faith cometh by hearing, and
hearing by the Word of God” (Rom. 10:17). James
used Abraham and Rahab as illustrations of dynamic
saving faith, since both of them heard and received the
message of God through His Word.

Faith is only as good as its object. The man in the
jungle bows before an idol of stone and trusts it to help
him, but he receives no help. No matter how much
faith a person may generate, if it is not directed at the
right object, it will accomplish nothing. “I believe”
may be the testimony of many sincere people, but the
big question is, “In whom do you believe? What do
you believe?” We are not saved by faith in faith; we are
saved by faith in Christ as revealed in His Word.

Dynamic faith is based on God’s Word, and it
involves the whole man. Dead faith touches only the
intellect; demonic faith involves both the mind and the
emotions; but dynamic faith involves the will. The
whole person plays a part in true saving faith. The
mind understands the truth; the heart desires the truth;
and the will acts upon the truth. The men and women
of faith named in Hebrews 11 were people of action:
God spoke and they obeyed. Again, “Faith is not
believing in spite of evidence; faith is obeying in spite
of consequence. “

True saving faith leads to action. Dynamic faith is
not intellectual contemplation or emotional consternation; it leads to obedience on the part of the will. And
this obedience is not an isolated event: it continues
throughout the whole life. It leads to works.
Many different kinds of works are named in the
New Testament. “The works of the law” (Gal. 2:16)
relate to the sinner’s attempt to please God by obeying
the law of Moses. Of course, it is impossible for a sinner to be saved through the works of the law. “The
works of the flesh” (Gal. 5:19) are done by unsaved
people who live for the things of the old nature. There
are also “wicked works” (Col. 1:21) and “dead works”
(Heb. 9:14). Where there is dynamic faith—saving
faith—you will always find good works.
Wiersbe
J.

Johann · Feb 28, 2024

Magenta said:

Well-umm--

Johann · Feb 28, 2024

Magenta said:

That is a terrible miscalculation based on a lack of understanding perpetuated by, um, well, a dearth of knowledge.

Many sources say many things and many of those things are blatant falsehoods .

I have posted this before so am simply copy/pasting from an earlier post:

That is a false number based on an egregious misunderstanding.

That misunderstanding gets thrown around as if it were truth when it is not.
Even under the most liberal definition of what constitutes a denomination, there are
nowhere close to 33,000 - 45,000 denominations. Many of these groups are merely subgroups
of larger denominational groups such as Presbyterians, Methodists, Lutherans, or Baptists.

Evangelical apologist Eric Svendsen exposes the falsehood of this fabrication. Briefly:

Svendsen shows that the source of this figure is the World Christian Encyclopedia (David A. Barrett; Oxford
University Press, 1982). Barrett cites a figure of 20,780 denominations. Still, not all of them are Protestants.
According to Barrett, Protestants account for 8,196 (and incidentally, Roman Catholics account for 223).

However, even this figure of eight thousand Protestant denominations is misleading, for Barrett defines
"distinct denominations" as any group that might have a slightly different emphasis than another group.
The distinction is made on the basis of jurisdiction, rather than differing beliefs and practices.

Barrett breaks down the Protestant bloc into twenty-one major "traditions" which are much closer to what we usually
mean by the word "denominations." It is interesting that Roman Catholics are subdivided into sixteen such "traditions."

Svendsen concludes, "In short, Roman Catholic apologists have hurriedly, carelessly - and, as a result, irresponsibly - glanced
at Barrett's work, found a large number (22,189), and arrived at all sorts of absurdities that Barrett never concluded." source

jamessb · Feb 28, 2024

FollowerofShiloh said:

If you're a Christian and you don't intentionally sin then it isn't of any concern.

jamessb · Feb 28, 2024

Inquisitor said:

The truth is Christians live their lives asking for forgiveness at every step of the way.

The more you examine yourself the more you will see the abject disobedience.

Our rebellious hearts are most clearly seen in what we have done in the past.

People murdered Jesus Christ, the creator and author of everything that exists.

That's the depth and degree of sin in the human heart. A blind, terrifying, madness, that commits sin at levels far beyond comprehension. We are all deeply afflicted and infected by sin and there is no cure for the flesh. The flesh must die, be put to death.

Lord forgive me of the vast array of sin that I am not even aware of.

Is this what is meant by resting in God's grace? Are you really that tortured???

Johann · Feb 28, 2024

jamessb said:

Really?

James 4:17: "So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin."

Luke 13:3: "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

1 John 3:4: "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

Galatians 6:7-9: "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

Matthew 25:44-45: "Then they also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?' Then he will answer them, saying, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.'"

--it is of urgent concern to me.
J.

jamessb · Feb 28, 2024

Johann said:

Really?

James 4:17: "So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin."

Luke 13:3: "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish."

1 John 3:4: "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

Galatians 6:7-9: "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

Matthew 25:44-45: "Then they also will answer, saying, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to you?' Then he will answer them, saying, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.'"

--it is of urgent concern to me.
J.

What is it about "intentionally" that you don't understand?

SabbathBlessing · Feb 28, 2024

Since its such an important topic I will add this.

It's not really unintentionally sin that gets overlooked, its unknowingly sin and there is a difference.

Acts 17:30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent,

Say for example, you do not have access to the bible and you covet someone's car and don't know its a sin, God winks at that.

This is what's God's law does- it tells us what sin is, so we don't depend on our own standard of righteousness, God has shown us His Psa 119:172

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
You can find the law for thou shalt not covet in the Ten Commandments- God's law written by God's own finger and why its under His mercy seat revealed in heaven where justice and mercy will come together some day soon.

Since we all have access to bibles God will hold us accountable for breaking His law as it is what we will be judged by. James 2:10-12 Ecc 12:13-14 Mat 5:19-30

The law shows us our sins
Romans 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
James 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does.

And should point us to Jesus for the solution when we sin

Romans 3:19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord,

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Once we repent- Jesus says go and sin no more. Through Him He can give us the power to overcome sin and be faithful to Him and His commandments.

Inquisitor · Feb 28, 2024

jamessb said:

There is always an internal conflict between the spirit and the desires of the flesh.

At times, yes that conflict is very real. Prayer, scripture, and fellowship, reduces that conflict.

On going sadness, so many folk do not know Jesus.

Frustration at the weakness of so many church organizations, they could do so much more.

Where do I stop.

jamessb · Feb 28, 2024

Inquisitor said:

There is always an internal conflict between the spirit and the desires of the flesh.

At times, yes that conflict is very real. Prayer, scripture, and fellowship, reduces that conflict.

On going sadness, so many folk do not know Jesus.

Frustration at the weakness of so many church organizations, they could do so much more.

Where do I stop.

Why not stop right here?

Inquisitor · Feb 28, 2024

Johann said:

There are many Evangelical churches and Pentecostal churches. That would not tick even one of those five boxes. Some are fanatical followers of Jesus and the scripture.

There are many traditional, main stream church movements, where the church members. Are woefully, illiterate about the revelation of the Christ in the scripture.

Did you read the last sentence?

The scripture is all about the revelation of Jesus Christ!

There are scholars out there that understand the New Testament better than most of us.

Do these scholars all believe in Jesus Christ?

Well no.

Bart Ehrman is one of those scholars, look him up on wikipedia.

Bart Ehrman would shake the foundation of many fundamentalists regarding the scripture.

The bottom line, nearly all Christians in nearly all Christian churches, would struggle. To explain the revelation of the Christ
in a satisfactory way.

It's not perfect New Testament knowledge that is the real problem.

It's the connection between the Holy Spirit and the believer.

Church history from the time of Jesus is awash with Biblical illiteracy. This problem cannot be corrected.

the Sabbath

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Active member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Active member

Active member

Active member

Active member

Active member

Active member

Active member

Active member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Active member

Well-known member