Predestination is misunderstood...

[Thunderrr-mental]

But the "change" was short-lived. He was a very different person after the Spirit of the Living God departed from him!

He was being punished for disobeying God, is my view, after God stopped speaking to him.

Samuel 16:14 Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD tormented him. 1 Samuel 18:10

So this is what is meant by a saved person being handed over to reprobate mind, but not saved in the sense he has received salvation, but saved in the sense he has received a first seed.

Its quite clearly puts the Calvinist doctrine to shame because Saul was chosen.

My point is this friend, had Saul yet to receive salvation, because he had not yet blossomed in to a person of self control.

Because he disobeyed the lord.

Does it mean that Saul lost his chance of salvation because he was handed over to a reprobate mind.

Well when we look at scripture we see God chastise those who he loves.

Does that mean you can be handed over to reprobate mind before salvation is given, in some cases.

But ultimately only God knows if he is in heaven or hell.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Can I use the white as well?

You can...But if you blend it up , be sure to use a large mug ...Its so delish , and you will not taste egg at all...A little butter goes so well with it also...It is like have a latte with cream...

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I don't think there is a better passage in scripture (although I certainly stand to be corrected) that implicitly speaks to the idea of "unmerited favor" of grace, which is but one of several aspects to grace. The text I have in mind is this:

Eph 2:1-3
2:1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.
NIV

Anyone who doesn't agree that grace is God's "unmerited favor" toward sinners would need to present a coherent argument how all of us who formerly "were [also] by nature objects of [God's] wrath" were at the same time worthy of his grace.

honestly really look at this


Philippians 2:13

New International Version



13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

How can you not read this, and not see Grace in the hands of God, means by definition Gods good will.

Gods grace and character through out the bible Is his will to save you.

He says I will give my wisdom freely.

But he only gives it to you, it's it's for for purpose, if his will was just an unmerited favor, he would just give his knowledge to anyone who asks for anything, and throughout scripture this is clearly not the case.

 

[Johann]

You can...But if you blend it up , be sure to use a large mug ...Its so delish , and you will not taste egg at all...A little butter goes so well with it also...It is like have a latte with cream...

No side effects?


Salmonella Contamination: Raw eggs, especially the whites, can be contaminated with Salmonella bacteria, which can lead to food poisoning. Symptoms of Salmonella infection include stomach cramps, diarrhea, vomiting, and fever

Biotin Deficiency: Eating raw egg whites can cause biotin deficiency, leading to skin problems like rashes and seborrheic dermatitis, as well as muscle pain and hair loss

Kidney Health: The excessive protein content in raw egg whites can be harmful to individuals with kidney problems by reducing the glomerular filtration rate (GFR), which is crucial for kidney function

Allergic Reactions: Some individuals may be allergic to raw egg whites, experiencing symptoms such as body rashes, swelling, redness, cramps, diarrhea, itching, and watery eyes. Severe allergic reactions can lead to breathing difficulties and a drop in blood pressure

Nutrient Absorption: Raw eggs may interfere with the absorption of certain nutrients. While they are highly nutritious, consuming raw eggs raises concerns about contracting Salmonella and may not provide significant benefits over cooked eggs

Precautions: To reduce the risk of Salmonella infection from raw eggs, it is recommended to buy pasteurized eggs, keep them refrigerated, discard cracked eggs, and cook them thoroughly until both the yolk and white are firm

In summary, while raw eggs are nutrient-dense and contain essential nutrients like protein and vitamins, they also carry the risk of bacterial contamination. It is advisable to handle and cook eggs properly to prevent illness and reduce the chances of contracting foodborne infections like Salmonella. If consumed raw, precautions should be taken to minimize health risks associated with bacterial contamination.

Johann.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Yes! What would the message be that Satan would have us receive, after all? "You failed. You're doomed. You've lost..." Such a messenger would, surely, keep one from conceit, yes, but if totally believed would also nosedive a person into despair and loss of any hope. And so why, when asked, God reminds Paul of His grace.

This is hy as the author of hebrews said, we need to be confident, and with full assurance enter the most holy place.

Satan wants us to lack confidence and doubt even Gods word.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

They believed because they could hear and had their heart circumcised. Before they were dead in their trespasses and sin. Those who were not attended to in this way remained in unbelief.

They were not circumcised until they were saved.

They are dead in tresspasses and sin until they are justified.

If they have not yet been justified, they are still dead.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Agree. We see that God moved and the result in those who He moved upon. We also see the result in those He did not move upon.

Oh he moved on them, Just like Jesus did in John 6. Thats why they will have no excuse

They just never received because they were in the state of unbelief.. and their hearts were hard.

 

[Johann]

They were not circumcised until they were saved.


Regeneration, sometimes referred to as the new birth or being born again, is a core aspect of Christian theology that emphasizes the supernatural transformation of humans from spiritual death to spiritual life. This transformation occurs solely through the gracious action of God, who imparts spiritual life to those who are otherwise spiritually dead due to their sinfulness.

Key features of regeneration include:
Initiation by God: Regeneration is a one-time act of God, not a product of human efforts. It is a sovereign work of the Holy Spirit, who convicts individuals of their sinful condition and grants them new life (John 3:3, 6; 1 Peter 1:3).
Precedence over faith: Regeneration occurs before faith, meaning that individuals cannot place their faith in Christ until they receive new hearts from the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 2:1-5).
Application of Christ's redemptive work: Regeneration applies the benefits of Christ's death, burial, and resurrection to the lives of believers (Westminster Confession of Faith 13.1).
Beginning of sanctification: Regeneration marks the starting point of the ongoing process of spiritual growth and maturity (Philippians 2:12-13).
Distinct from justification: Although closely connected, regeneration differs from justification in that regeneration involves the internal transformation of the individual, whereas justification concerns the legal declaration of the individual as righteous before God (Romans 3:21-26).
Necessary for salvation: Regeneration is a requirement for genuine salvation, as those who lack spiritual life cannot be counted as true followers of Christ (John 3:3, 7).
Grounded in Scripture: The doctrine of regeneration is supported by numerous biblical passages, including Ezekiel 36:26-27, John 3:3-8, and Ephesians 2:1-5.
Confessions of faith, such as the Westminster Confession of Faith and the Baptist Faith and Message, affirm the doctrine of regeneration as a foundational element of Christian orthodoxy. These documents highlight the fact that regeneration is a work of God's grace alone, not a result of human merit or cooperation (Ephesians 2:8-9).

 

[Johann]

They were not circumcised until they were saved.

They are dead in tresspasses and sin until they are justified.

If they have not yet been justified, they are still dead.

Regeneration, sometimes referred to as the new birth or being born again, is a core aspect of Christian theology that emphasizes the supernatural transformation of humans from spiritual death to spiritual life. This transformation occurs solely through the gracious action of God, who imparts spiritual life to those who are otherwise spiritually dead due to their sinfulness.

Key features of regeneration include:

Initiation by God: Regeneration is a one-time act of God, not a product of human efforts. It is a sovereign work of the Holy Spirit, who convicts individuals of their sinful condition and grants them new life (John 3:3, 6; 1 Peter 1:3).

Precedence over faith: Regeneration occurs before faith, meaning that individuals cannot place their faith in Christ until they receive new hearts from the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 2:1-5).

Application of Christ's redemptive work: Regeneration applies the benefits of Christ's death, burial, and resurrection to the lives of believers (Westminster Confession of Faith 13.1).

Beginning of sanctification: Regeneration marks the starting point of the ongoing process of spiritual growth and maturity (Philippians 2:12-13).

Distinct from justification: Although closely connected, regeneration differs from justification in that regeneration involves the internal transformation of the individual, whereas justification concerns the
legal declaration of the individual as righteous before God (Romans 3:21-26).

Necessary for salvation: Regeneration is a requirement for genuine salvation, as those who lack spiritual life cannot be counted as true followers of Christ (John 3:3, 7).
Grounded in Scripture: The doctrine of regeneration is supported by numerous biblical passages, including Ezekiel 36:26-27, John 3:3-8, and Ephesians 2:1-5.
Confessions of faith, such as the Westminster Confession of Faith and the Baptist Faith and Message, affirm the doctrine of regeneration as a foundational element of Christian orthodoxy. These documents highlight the fact that regeneration is a work of God's grace alone, not a result of human merit or cooperation (Ephesians 2:8-9).

 

[Rufus]

I don't think there is a better passage in scripture (although I certainly stand to be corrected) that implicitly speaks to the idea of "unmerited favor" of grace, which is but one of several aspects to grace. The text I have in mind is this:

Eph 2:1-3
2:1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.
NIV

Anyone who doesn't agree that grace is God's "unmerited favor" toward sinners would need to present a coherent argument how all of us who formerly "were [also] by nature objects of [God's] wrath" were at the same time worthy of his grace.

honestly really look at this


Philippians 2:13

New International Version



13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.

How can you not read this, and not see Grace in the hands of God, means by definition Gods good will.

Gods grace and character through out the bible Is his will to save you.

He says I will give my wisdom freely.

But he only gives it to you, it's it's for for purpose, if his will was just an unmerited favor, he would just give his knowledge to anyone who asks for anything, and throughout scripture this is clearly not the case.

Sir, I don't want to be insulting. But really...you don't read very well. (Reread the first sentence carefully in my quote above!!!) I did basically say earlier that "grace" has multiple definitions. Grace is in some places more or less equated with God's love. In other places with his kindness. In other places with his power, etc. And in yet, other places, contrasted with the Law. And in the Eph 1:3 passage, it's implicitly inferred that his grace was given to disgusting, rebellious, adulterous, vile sinners -- all of whom were by nature objects of God's wrath. So, you still need to tell me HOW these objects of wrath are worthy of his grace and his gift of faith.

P.S. your Phil 2:13 passage does not begin to address the very specific question I raised re Eph 2:3. Your answer, therefore, is a non sequitur, most especially since I never actually disputed your narrow, singular definition of "grace"; for I look at your chosen definition as A definition -- or at least A feasible definition -- as an aspect to God's incomprehensible grace. At least it is to my mind.

 

[Johann]

I don't think there is a better passage in scripture (although I certainly stand to be corrected) that implicitly speaks to the idea of "unmerited favor" of grace, which is but one of several aspects to grace. The text I have in mind is this:

Eph 2:1-3
2:1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.
NIV

Anyone who doesn't agree that grace is God's "unmerited favor" toward sinners would need to present a coherent argument how all of us who formerly "were [also] by nature objects of [God's] wrath" were at the same time worthy of his grace.


Sir, I don't want to be insulting. But really...you don't read very well. (Reread the first sentence carefully in my quote above!!!) I did basically say earlier that "grace" has multiple definitions. Grace is in some places more or less equated with God's love. In other places with his kindness. In other places with his power, etc. And in yet, other places, contrasted with the Law. And in the Eph 1:3 passage, it's implicitly inferred that his grace was given to disgusting, rebellious, adulterous, vile sinners -- all of whom were by nature objects of God's wrath. So, you still need to tell me HOW these objects of wrath are worthy of his grace and his gift of faith.

P.S. your Phil 2:13 passage does not begin to address the very specific question I raised re Eph 2:3. Your answer, therefore, is a non sequitur, most especially since I never actually disputed your narrow, singular definition of "grace"; for I look at your chosen definition as A definition -- or at least A feasible definition -- as an aspect to God's incomprehensible grace. At least it is to my mind.

To whom was this addressed?
J.

 

[Cameron143]

They were not circumcised until they were saved.

They are dead in tresspasses and sin until they are justified.

If they have not yet been justified, they are still dead.

They were circumcised in their hearts. That's what the pricking is all about. They were justified at the cross. The gospel was the application of it to them.

 

[Cameron143]

Oh he moved on them, Just like Jesus did in John 6. Thats why they will have no excuse

They just never received because they were in the state of unbelief.. and their hearts were hard.

They never received because they were never given hearing and their hearts were not circumcised.

 

[Johann]

They never received because they were never given hearing and their hearts were not circumcised.

Biblical terminologies and language-just love it.
J.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

They were circumcised in their hearts. That's what the pricking is all about. They were justified at the cross. The gospel was the application of it to them.

How can they be justified at the cross. When they had yet to have faith?

The cross paid for their justification. But it just paid for the grace that God would offer.

They were cut to the heart because their guilt was exposed.. Not because of some magic potion of being born again while dead in sin..

 

[Rufus]

He was being punished for disobeying God, is my view, after God stopped speaking to him.

Samuel 16:14 Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD tormented him. 1 Samuel 18:10

So this is what is meant by a saved person being handed over to reprobate mind, but not saved in the sense he has received salvation, but saved in the sense he has received a first seed.

Its quite clearly puts the Calvinist doctrine to shame because Saul was chosen.

My point is this friend, had Saul yet to receive salvation, because he had not yet blossomed in to a person of self control.

Because he disobeyed the lord.

Does it mean that Saul lost his chance of salvation because he was handed over to a reprobate mind.

Well when we look at scripture we see God chastise those who he loves.

Does that mean you can be handed over to reprobate mind before salvation is given, in some cases.

But ultimately only God knows if he is in heaven or hell.

So, was Pharaoh chosen (Rom 9:14-18). And so were the disobedient about whom Peter spoke (1Pet 2:8). And what about all those God gave over to a depraved mind because they also did not want to retain God in their knowledge (Rom 1:21-32)

And how quickly you have forgotten that God not only removed the Holy Spirit, but he also removed his love/lovingkindness/mercy from him, as well, depending on the translation you prefer to believe.

However, your last point is well taken. For this reason the subject of Saul is not important to me. His eternal destiny is certainly not an article of the Christian Faith. I only point out the negative evidence. Conversely, there is no positive evidence for Saul. So...feel free to believe what you want. This minnow is too small to fry.

 

[Rufus]

Common errors repeated often enough appear to be truth.

Grace is not unmerited favor.

Grace is enabling power from God to make us able to become what God does favor!

But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” ​

Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may ​

rest on me." 2 Corinthians 12:9​

​

grace and peace ...............

Then please address Eph 2:3 and tell me how the people described therein were by nature objects of God's wrath merited his salvation.

 

[Cameron143]

How can they be justified at the cross. When they had yet to have faith?

The cross paid for their justification. But it just paid for the grace that God would offer.

They were cut to the heart because their guilt was exposed.. Not because of some magic potion of being born again while dead in sin..

No one seeks after God...Romans 3. These people were asking after God. That only occurs when God is at work, drawing people to Himself.
To truly understand salvation, one needs to understand the natural estate of fallen man. He is unable to respond to the call of God apart from the enablement of God. Until this is understood, understanding the exercise of God's grace to produce faith that...is not of yourself...will not be understood.

 

[Rufus]

To whom was this addressed?
J.

Eph 2:1 tells us, doesn't it? "As for you...". It would appear he's addressing the Ephesian church.

 

[Cameron143]

How can they be justified at the cross. When they had yet to have faith?

The cross paid for their justification. But it just paid for the grace that God would offer.

They were cut to the heart because their guilt was exposed.. Not because of some magic potion of being born again while dead in sin..

As far as justification goes...there is only 1 day in history that sins were paid for. That's when justification occurred. Salvation is the application of Jesus' work on the cross to individuals in space and time.