Predestination is misunderstood...
- Thread starter Genez
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I believe this is what he meant-
Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." This passage emphasizes that salvation is a gift of God's grace, not something earned by human effort or merit.
Romans 5:8: "But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." This verse highlights the unmerited nature of God's grace and love towards humanity, even when we were in a state of sin and rebellion.
Titus 3:5: "He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit." This verse underscores that salvation is based on God's mercy and grace, not on human works or deserving.
In light of these scriptures, the statement can be clarified as follows:
Before salvation, our condition was indeed out of favor with the Lord due to sin (Romans 3:23).
Our reception of God's grace and salvation is unmerited; it is a gift from God based on His mercy and love (Ephesians 2:8-9).
While our condition of receiving God's grace is unmerited, it does not diminish the fact that God's good will (grace) towards us is also unmerited and based on His character and love for humanity (Romans 5:8).
Therefore, the statement accurately reflects the biblical teaching that our salvation is based on God's unmerited grace and love towards us, even when we were undeserving.
J.
Ephesians 2:8-9: "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast." This passage emphasizes that salvation is a gift of God's grace, not something earned by human effort or merit.
Romans 5:8: "But God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us." This verse highlights the unmerited nature of God's grace and love towards humanity, even when we were in a state of sin and rebellion.
Titus 3:5: "He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit." This verse underscores that salvation is based on God's mercy and grace, not on human works or deserving.
In light of these scriptures, the statement can be clarified as follows:
Before salvation, our condition was indeed out of favor with the Lord due to sin (Romans 3:23).
Our reception of God's grace and salvation is unmerited; it is a gift from God based on His mercy and love (Ephesians 2:8-9).
While our condition of receiving God's grace is unmerited, it does not diminish the fact that God's good will (grace) towards us is also unmerited and based on His character and love for humanity (Romans 5:8).
Therefore, the statement accurately reflects the biblical teaching that our salvation is based on God's unmerited grace and love towards us, even when we were undeserving.
J.
-
1
-
1
- Show all
Common errors repeated often enough appear to be truth.
Grace is not unmerited favor.
Grace is enabling power from God to make us able to become what God does favor!
grace and peace ...............
Grace is not unmerited favor.
Grace is enabling power from God to make us able to become what God does favor!
But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.”
Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may
rest on me." 2 Corinthians 12:9
grace and peace ...............
-
1
- Show all
I know you are going to disagree here brother-
Ephesians 2:8-9: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." This passage emphasizes that salvation is a result of God's grace, not based on human merit or works.
Romans 11:6: "And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace." This verse highlights the distinction between grace and works, emphasizing that grace is freely given and not earned through human effort.
Titus 3:5: "He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit." This verse underscores that salvation is a result of God's mercy and grace, not due to any merit on our part.
2 Timothy 1:9: "He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time." This verse highlights that God's grace is based on His own purpose and initiative, not on human actions.
In light of these scriptures, it is clear that grace in the Christian context is indeed understood as unmerited favor—God's free gift of salvation and blessings extended to humanity out of His love and mercy, rather than something earned or deserved through human effort.
The passage from 2 Corinthians 12:9 provides a powerful message of hope and encouragement for believers who face trials and difficulties. Let's break down the context and meaning of this verse:
Paul's Thorn in the Flesh: The passage is part of a larger section in which the apostle Paul describes a "thorn in the flesh" that he had been given to keep him from becoming conceited (2 Corinthians 12:7). The nature of this thorn is not specified, but it caused Paul great distress and weakness.
God's Response: In response to Paul's plea for relief from this thorn, God tells him, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." This statement emphasizes that God's grace is enough to sustain Paul through his weakness and that God's power is most evident in moments of human weakness.
Boasting in Weakness: Paul then declares that he will boast all the more gladly about his weaknesses so that Christ's power may rest on him. This statement highlights the paradoxical nature of Christian strength, which is found in weakness and dependence on God's grace.
Implications: The passage underscores the importance of relying on God's grace and power in times of weakness and difficulty. It emphasizes that God's grace is sufficient to sustain believers through any trial or hardship and that His power is most evident in moments of human weakness. It also highlights the importance of humility and dependence on God, rather than self-sufficiency or pride.
So-to conclude-, 2 Corinthians 12:9 provides a powerful message of hope and encouragement for believers facing trials and difficulties. It emphasizes the sufficiency of God's grace and power to sustain us through our weaknesses and highlights the importance of humility and dependence on God.
J.
Ephesians 2:8-9: "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—not by works, so that no one can boast." This passage emphasizes that salvation is a result of God's grace, not based on human merit or works.
Romans 11:6: "And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace." This verse highlights the distinction between grace and works, emphasizing that grace is freely given and not earned through human effort.
Titus 3:5: "He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit." This verse underscores that salvation is a result of God's mercy and grace, not due to any merit on our part.
2 Timothy 1:9: "He has saved us and called us to a holy life—not because of anything we have done but because of his own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time." This verse highlights that God's grace is based on His own purpose and initiative, not on human actions.
In light of these scriptures, it is clear that grace in the Christian context is indeed understood as unmerited favor—God's free gift of salvation and blessings extended to humanity out of His love and mercy, rather than something earned or deserved through human effort.
The passage from 2 Corinthians 12:9 provides a powerful message of hope and encouragement for believers who face trials and difficulties. Let's break down the context and meaning of this verse:
Paul's Thorn in the Flesh: The passage is part of a larger section in which the apostle Paul describes a "thorn in the flesh" that he had been given to keep him from becoming conceited (2 Corinthians 12:7). The nature of this thorn is not specified, but it caused Paul great distress and weakness.
God's Response: In response to Paul's plea for relief from this thorn, God tells him, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." This statement emphasizes that God's grace is enough to sustain Paul through his weakness and that God's power is most evident in moments of human weakness.
Boasting in Weakness: Paul then declares that he will boast all the more gladly about his weaknesses so that Christ's power may rest on him. This statement highlights the paradoxical nature of Christian strength, which is found in weakness and dependence on God's grace.
Implications: The passage underscores the importance of relying on God's grace and power in times of weakness and difficulty. It emphasizes that God's grace is sufficient to sustain believers through any trial or hardship and that His power is most evident in moments of human weakness. It also highlights the importance of humility and dependence on God, rather than self-sufficiency or pride.
So-to conclude-, 2 Corinthians 12:9 provides a powerful message of hope and encouragement for believers facing trials and difficulties. It emphasizes the sufficiency of God's grace and power to sustain us through our weaknesses and highlights the importance of humility and dependence on God.
J.
Again, and I am being honest. I have not the slightest idea what you are rambling about
yes, I was saved because I recieved unmerited favor from God. I could not merit the favor that God offered to me,
it is your fault who you are. That why you REQUIRE unmerited favor..
I am not listening to you thats for sure. You have given me nothing to chew on.
You also believe you must be immersed (baptised) in water to be saved correct? Or did I misunderstand you in that area
yes, I was saved because I recieved unmerited favor from God. I could not merit the favor that God offered to me,
it is your fault who you are. That why you REQUIRE unmerited favor..
I am not listening to you thats for sure. You have given me nothing to chew on.
You also believe you must be immersed (baptised) in water to be saved correct? Or did I misunderstand you in that area
Another one that does not understand the word Charis
[quote[Grace is enabling power from God to make us able to become what God does favor!
[/quote]
Then everyone would be saved, because God is willing non should perish. So it has to be something other than this.
yes, Spoken to Paul. Who ahead already recieved the gift of salvation through Faith n Christ.
He is talking about the fact when after we are saved, his grace is sufficient..
[quote[Grace is enabling power from God to make us able to become what God does favor!
[/quote]
Then everyone would be saved, because God is willing non should perish. So it has to be something other than this.
yes, Spoken to Paul. Who ahead already recieved the gift of salvation through Faith n Christ.
He is talking about the fact when after we are saved, his grace is sufficient..
Because people see things differently. Can't have an intelligent, meaning discussion unless we can at least agree on a fundamentally important issue, such as a definition. For example, let's say a discussion turns to the subject of cars. Simple enough subject, right? But is it? One could think everyone would be on the same page discussing cars, right? However, a "car" has multiple meanings! It is defined as a carriage, chariot, an automobile, a vehicle that moves on rails, a passenger compartment of an elevator or a a part of an airship or balloon that carries passengers or cargo.
Likewise, one could easily view "free will" as being "free to" do anything one wants; while another could see the term as being "free from" something -- something that encumbers or restricts.
Likewise, one could easily view "free will" as being "free to" do anything one wants; while another could see the term as being "free from" something -- something that encumbers or restricts.
-
1
- Show all
Yes! What would the message be that Satan would have us receive, after all? "You failed. You're doomed. You've lost..." Such a messenger would, surely, keep one from conceit, yes, but if totally believed would also nosedive a person into despair and loss of any hope. And so why, when asked, God reminds Paul of His grace.
-
1
- Show all
I don't think there is a better passage in scripture (although I certainly stand to be corrected) that implicitly speaks to the idea of "unmerited favor" of grace, which is but one of several aspects to grace. The text I have in mind is this:
Eph 2:1-3
2:1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.
NIV
Anyone who doesn't agree that grace is God's "unmerited favor" toward sinners would need to present a coherent argument how all of us who formerly "were [also] by nature objects of [God's] wrath" were at the same time worthy of his grace.
Eph 2:1-3
2:1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.
NIV
Anyone who doesn't agree that grace is God's "unmerited favor" toward sinners would need to present a coherent argument how all of us who formerly "were [also] by nature objects of [God's] wrath" were at the same time worthy of his grace.
-
2
- Show all