Shabbat (Intent-- not Timing)

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,080
6,883
113
62
Please show me where I applied scripture incorrectly. It’s easy to make accusations, but another to prove it.

I’ll remind you where this started-you stated the Sabbath wasn’t about a particular day, when God in His own Words said it is about a particular day the seventh day Exo 20:10 . He both wrote and spoke it. Exo 20:10. I don’t believe I am the one applying scripture incorrectly as already demonstrated through scripture.
We already covered this. You agreed that the spirit of the law was the intention of the law and superceded the letter. Then you immediately returned to the letter of the law. My questions are designed to get to the spirit or intention of the law. Romans 1:20 teaches that the invisible things of God are understood by what appears. I'm trying to get to the invisible things of God.
 

SabbathBlessing

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2023
1,660
308
83
Wait. So you are working a job because you decided to do so on your own? The Lord did not deploy you there? And you bought and paid for your house, clothes, and belongings in your own strength?

"I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does."

You're living in the wrong economy. You're still living by the sweat of your brow.
You keep making arguments no one is making.

Everything comes from God including the power He gives us to obey His commandments, but it requires our cooperation. The Sabbath is a commandment of God just like the command not to worship other gods, not to covet or steal. Breaking one is breaking them all. James 2:10-12. In Christ we are obeying everything He asks of us through love and faith. John 14:15-18 Rev 14:12. God’s law is given so we can see our sin Rom 7:7 and so we are not depending on our righteousness but God’s Psa 119:172
 

SabbathBlessing

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2023
1,660
308
83
We already covered this. You agreed that the spirit of the law was the intention of the law and superceded the letter. Then you immediately returned to the letter of the law. My questions are designed to get to the spirit or intention of the law. Romans 1:20 teaches that the invisible things of God are understood by what appears. I'm trying to get to the invisible things of God.
If we are living by the Spirit the letter would never be broke. :) John 14:15-18 Mat 5:19-30 Rom 8:4-8
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,149
30,298
113
Paul does not have the authority to countermand God’s commandments, nor did Paul as He was a servant of Christ and kept all of the commandments including the Sabbath commandments decades after the cross Acts 13:42-44 Acts 18:4
You seem to forget that Paul said such things as, All that matters is faith, expressed through love.

For neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything. What counts is a new creation.

Paul taught against circumcision. <= the LAW.

The same can be said of Sabbath-keeping, which was never given to Christians in the first place, and
you cannot keep it either, no matter how much you want to pretend you do and have us believe it.


Israel, who pursued a law of righteousness, has not attained it.

You who are trying to be justified by the law have been severed from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.

Even Jesus worked on the Sabbath, and said His Father continued to as well.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
20,080
6,883
113
62
If we are living by the Spirit the letter would never be broke. :) John 14:15-18 Mat 5:19-30 Rom 8:4-8
Agree. But I'm referring to the spirit of the law...it's intention. The scriptures speak symbolically and of Christ. In order to make application to Christ, one must understand what the law was intended to reveal. This is what I'm trying to get you to see. God didn't willy-nilly establish the Sabbath. He had great purpose in doing so. And in doing so, He is revealing His purposes, His ways, and magnifying the person of Christ.
So back to my question: why did God establish the Sabbath? What is the significance of the 7th day? What does this reveal about Christ?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,957
13,615
113
Are you trying to make a case this somehow deletes our moral obligation to obey the Sabbath commandment?
i'm trying to eventually show you that Christ is the substance and purpose of all the things written, that they are written to testify of Him, and that all things created are created for Him.
 

jamessb

Active member
Feb 10, 2024
738
122
43
Santa Fe NM
So now we can worship other gods, bow to idols, vain His holy name break His holy Sabbath, covet, steal or break the least of these the opposite of what Jesus taught and lived for our example. Mat 5:19-30 John 15:10 1 John 2:6

The New Covenant was established on better promises Heb 8:6, not better or new laws as God’s law is perfect Psa 19:7 because God is perfect and you can’t make something that is perfect more perfect which is why God’s writes His law in our hearts and minds Heb 8:10 instead of deleting them and why its still a sin to break them Romans 7:7 breaking one is like breaking them all James 2:10-12.

Sad this is a popular teaching in most churches, but it was predicted Rev 12:17. God’s people keep God’s commandments through love and faith 1 John 5:3 Rom 3:31 Rev 14:122 which reconciles us back to Christ Rev 22:14
If this is actually what you think then there is no point in discussing anything with you.

BTW, why do you jump all over the place, pulling texts from here and there -- Matthew, John, Hebrews, Psalms, Romans, James, and 1 John? All that demonstrates is that you are manufacturing doctrine!
 

SabbathBlessing

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2023
1,660
308
83
Agree. But I'm referring to the spirit of the law...it's intention. The scriptures speak symbolically and of Christ. In order to make application to Christ, one must understand what the law was intended to reveal. This is what I'm trying to get you to see. God didn't willy-nilly establish the Sabbath. He had great purpose in doing so. And in doing so, He is revealing His purposes, His ways, and magnifying the person of Christ.
So back to my question: why did God establish the Sabbath? What is the significance of the 7th day? What does this reveal about Christ?
I already answered a lot of these questions https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-intent-not-timing.214145/page-7#post-5246364

Again, most of your statements are your words, nothing I remotely even indicated. You act like I don’t understand the Sabbath and thats fine your free to your opinion despite not knowing each other, but when someone who admits they don’t have it in their heart to keep the Sabbath and teaches we don’t have to keep it- something Jesus warned about Mat 5:19 but wants to teach others what its really about- its sort of like trying tell others how to raise children when one doesn’t have any. The Sabbath is very spiritual and unless one keeps, one would not understand the blessing God gives us through His holy Sabbath day. Many try to convince others the Sabbath is not on the seventh day despite God saying otherwise Exo 20:10 and instead of holy time with God Isa 58:13, we can use the day to our own liking and instead Jesus somehow became the Sabbath despite Jesus said it is a commandment not for Him, but for us. I’m only interested in scripture. That is to be the guide to our path Psa 119:105- outside of that is danger Isa 8:20
 

SabbathBlessing

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2023
1,660
308
83
If this is actually what you think then there is no point in discussing anything with you.

BTW, why do you jump all over the place, pulling texts from here and there -- Matthew, John, Hebrews, Psalms, Romans, James, and 1 John? All that demonstrates is that you are manufacturing doctrine!
I would suggest you prayerfully read each of those scriptures and you will see how they are connected. God’s Word is one continuous book. It’s easy to make accusations, it’s another to demonstrate. Please feel free to demonstrate how those scriptures are not connected.

2 Tim 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
3,044
1,799
113
You keep making arguments no one is making.

Everything comes from God including the power He gives us to obey His commandments, but it requires our cooperation. The Sabbath is a commandment of God just like the command not to worship other gods, not to covet or steal. Breaking one is breaking them all. James 2:10-12. In Christ we are obeying everything He asks of us through love and faith. John 14:15-18 Rev 14:12. God’s law is given so we can see our sin Rom 7:7 and so we are not depending on our righteousness but God’s Psa 119:172
No, you are making an argument for an existance apart from God, when he should reside in you. This is why you believe you must observe the sabbath: because you do not realize that Christ is in you; the rest that he brings to you is an economy of rest, and not merely a religious observation of a certain day.
 

SabbathBlessing

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2023
1,660
308
83
No, you are making an argument for an existance apart from God, when he should reside in you. This is why you believe you must observe the sabbath: because you do not realize that Christ is in you; the rest that he brings to you is an economy of rest, and not merely a religious observation of a certain day.
If God resides in us we would be keeping the commandments of God. The Sabbath is a commandment of God. Exo 20:8-11 Just like thou shalt have no other gods above Me, thou shalt not bow to idols, thou shalt not murder, covet , commit adultery or break the least of these Mat 5:19-30
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
3,044
1,799
113
If God resides in us we would be keeping the commandments of God. The Sabbath is a commandment of God. Exo 20:8-11 Just like thou shalt have no other gods above Me, thou shalt not bow to idols, thou shalt not murder, covet , commit adultery or break the least of these Mat 5:19-30
No, if God resides in us, He is still resting. As long as it is called today, we should enter into His rest.
Resting in God is an economy that opposes gaining resources by the sweat of your own brow.
 

SabbathBlessing

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2023
1,660
308
83
No, if God resides in us, He is still resting. As long as it is called today, we should enter into His rest.
resting in God is an economy that opposes gaining resources by the sweat of your own brow.
Christ rest is not the Sabbath rest, these are two different rests. The Sabbath rest is according to the commandment. Luke 23:56. In Christ rest there is no rebellion to Him or His commandments, just peace Isa 48:18
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,149
30,298
113
I’m only interested in scripture. That is to be the guide to our path Psa 119:105- outside of that is danger Isa 8:20
Does Sabbaths not include the Sabbath day? You would have us believe it does not, but that would be you adding to Scripture.

Paul does not have the authority to countermand God’s commandments, nor did Paul as He was a servant of Christ and
kept all of the commandments including the Sabbath commandments decades after the cross Acts 13:42-44 Acts 18:4

There is more than one Sabbath in scripture- Paul was careful to write the sabbath(s) he is referring to handwritten ordinances that have to do with food, drink, holy days also called sabbath(s) or feast days. Man cannot reverse God’s blessing Num 23:20 so we need a thus saith the Lord to reverse God’s Sabbath commanemnt. All of the thus saith the Lords on the Sabbath are for us to keep and not profane.
You made that part up (adding to Scripture, again!). Paul no longer sacrificed bulls, goats and
lambs etc on the feast days either. Therefore he did not keep the law. Nor did he make daily
sacrifices as was commanded, nor the weekly Sabbath animal sacrifices as were commanded.
So you saying that Paul kept all the commandments is quite misleading and downright false.


He recognized that all that was pointing forward to Jesus Christ as the spotless Lamb of God.

Jesus is our Sabbath rest, because He fulfilled all righteousness, and nobody's work (but His) can attain salvation.
 

SabbathBlessing

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2023
1,660
308
83
Again, accusations are easy to make with this group and yet no one proves it with scripture.
The context to Col 2:16 is in Col 2:14 KJV and v17

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

So we know this from Colossians 2:14:
1. They are handwritten
2. They are ordinances
3. They are contrary.

Does this fit the Sabbath commandment in any way?
1. The Sabbath was finger-written by God (not by hand) Exo 31:18 Exo 32:16
2. The Sabbath is a commandment of God (not an ordinance). Exodus 20, Exodus 34:28 Deut 4:13 Exo 20:8-11 Exo 20:6
3. God said the Sabbath is holy and blessed (not cursed and contrary) Exodus 20:8-11 Genesis 2:1-3
Note: once God blesses something man cannot reverse it Num 23:20, so one would need a thus saith the Lord to do away with God's holy Sabbath day, which does not exist. There is another safeguard in scripture how many twist the words of Paul 2 Peter 3:16 and Paul does not have authority to take away one of God's commandments.

There are more than one Sabbath in scripture but only one weekly Sabbath that is a commandment of God blessed and made holy by God, written by His very own finger..


So what is this verse referring to:


Deuteronomy 31:24 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the Lord, saying: 26 “Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;

The book that contained the ordinances were outside the ark- all of the Ten Commandments, which includes the Sabbath commandment are inside the ark.

Colossians 2:17 gives us more insight...

Col 2:17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

Lets go to Hebrews 10 as it explains it....


Hebrews10:1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. 5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”
8 Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, [b]O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been [c]sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all

1 Cor 5:7 For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.

Sin is the transgression of God's law 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 Jesus didn't die so we can continue in sin, but to continue living in His grace through faith, keeping His commandments by love 1 John 5:3 Romans 3:31

I would challenge this group to find one scripture from God that says we no longer need to keep the Sabbath commandment. God blessed the Sabbath, man can’t reverse Num 23:20 God personally wrote the Sabbath commandment with His own finger- no greater Authority than He. All of the thus saith the Lord on the Sabbath and there are many is for us to keep and not profane. Jesus tells us to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. That’s where we should place our faith.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
3,044
1,799
113
Christ rest is not the Sabbath rest, these are two different rests. The Sabbath rest is according to the commandment. Luke 23:56. In Christ rest there is no rebellion to Him or His commandments, just peace Isa 48:18
correct. One is an old covenant required under the law. The other is an eternal economy found in heaven. God is still at rest. Once we are in him and he is in us we are at rest too. There’s no need for a double rest as you see it.
 

SabbathBlessing

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2023
1,660
308
83
correct. One is an old covenant required under the law. The other is an eternal economy found in heaven. God is still at rest. Once we are in him and he is in us we are at rest too. There’s no need for a double rest as you see it.
Heb 4:10 makes the distinctions of these two rests.

Heb 4:10 For he who has entered His rest (Christ rest) has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. (Sabbath rest)

God ceased from His works on the seventh day. The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God. Exo 20:10

Hebrews 4:4 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;

In Christ rest there is no rebellion to Him or His commanemnts Isa 48:18. It is still sin to break the commandments of God even in the NC Rom 7:7 breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12 hence why Jesus warns not to break or teach others to break the least of these as it affects our status in heaven. Mat 5:19-30

Anyway, I appreciate the chat. Need to run for now. God bless you all in seeking Truth to His Word. Our time is running nearer to the Second Coming of Jesus Christ!
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,149
30,298
113
The Sabbath didn’t end in the New Covenant- was kept by Jesus the apostles and His faithful followers. Will be kept in heaven for eternity.
Law pushers like you believed Jesus and His followers broke the Sabbath, and sought to kill Him.
 

SabbathBlessing

Well-known member
Dec 13, 2023
1,660
308
83
Law keepers like you believed Jesus and His followers broke the Sabbath, and sought to kill Him.
You will never find one post from me that says Jesus or His followers broke the Sabbath. I always stated the opposite. Take care.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,149
30,298
113
You will never find one post from me that says Jesus or His followers broke the Sabbath. I always stated the opposite. Take care.
Nor did I say you said anything of the sort. Just that people like you, who push the law, believed He did.

So don't be going and adding to what I actually say. Some people have a tendency to do that.