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Did Jesus Die on The Cross for The Just/Elect/Saved Whose Names Are Written in The Book of Life OR
- Thread starter MerSee
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Niki7
Guest
It is not a Bible based church since what you say is not in scripture.
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Niki7
Guest
Are you sure you're reading the passage correctly?
Right. We are JUSTIFIED by [/by means of] "the faith OF JESUS CHRIST".
[btw, no one here (that I'm aware of) is saying we are "justified by the works of the law"
]Are you sure this is saying what you are suggesting it is conveying?
Where does this say that "we have believed in Jesus Christ" BECAUSE He already poured HIS FAITH into us SO THAT we would believe?
I'm not reading the sentence that way.
Again, no one (that I've noticed, anyway) is suggesting we are "justified" by "the works of the law."
But this sentence [/verse] is still not saying what you are suggesting it's saying, that He poured faith into us SO THAT we would "believe in Jesus Christ".
Roman 4:4
Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned according to grace, but according to debt.
Roman 4:4
Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned according to grace, but according to debt.
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Niki7
Guest
That is a verse in scripture but has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. Where in scripture do you read anything about working to be saved? Let's see some verses. Taking a verse out of context changes the meaning and is not connected to doctrine that is sound.
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Niki7
Guest
Let's view that in context
4 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, tour forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
and whose sins are covered;
8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”
Abraham believed God and was therefore counted righteous. V.2 actually states he was NOT justified or rewarded for any works
V 4, which for some reason you have posted several times now, actually is stating that if you receive wages, that is your due because you worked for it BUT we see plainly here, when keeping v. 4 in context, that you cannot work for righteousness....only FAITH in Christ and belief in Him is counted as righteousness.
Anyway, if you sit under false doctrine, as it seems you are doing, you will never understand scripture. The entire book will be distorted. You are free to believe whatever you want but what gets me ticked off are people posting a false salvation by works or any other way save through faith/belief in Christ and His finished work. That is the only reason I responded and really, you should check out scripture yourself and pray for understanding
James 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble.
Believe so.
Right. We are JUSTIFIED by [/by means of] "the faith OF JESUS CHRIST".
[btw, no one here (that I'm aware of) is saying we are "justified by the works of the law"
Not sure why you highlighted "of Jesus Christ"? That was my point. Anyway, the "the faith of Jeus Christ", means, Christ's faith. It is in the genitive, denoting the ownership of the faith.
Those who do not believe it is a gift by/from Christ's faith, in effect, are saying they are justified by the works of the law whether they realize it or not. Why? Because faith then is a requirement for their salvation, but if not given as a gift, it becomes a law for salvation which must be satisfied by them, otherwise, if not, then the person isn't saved, so under those conditions, in terms of salvation, it becomes a law, and not only a law but a work.
That is how I read it. It says "by the faith of Jesus Christ even we have believed in Jesus Christ. The imputing of His faith ( by the "by"), is the perquisite to truly believing in Christ.
How do you read it?
See Gal 5:22 below. The faith imputed by the Holy Spirit is Christ's faith.
To be imputed the faith of Christ is a byproduct of salvation. That faith is imputed to someone as one of the fruits of the Spirit upon becoming saved/born again.
[Gal 5:22 KJV] 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Why have you chosen to believe in paying for your own sin debt, when it was the Savior Who paid for ALL your sins? Wasn't that enough?
Roman 4:4
Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned according to grace, but according to debt.
A person is indwelt when God saves them - He is the Saviour, man is not. Were they indwelt by their accepting of Christ,
then that would make them their own saviour, not Christ. But Christ alone is the Saviour.
This is not a false teaching it is the foundation of the gospel.
Exactly !!! We’re all doomed if we don’t turn to the lord no matter who we are
Abraham's believing was attributed by Abraham to God that God is righteous not that Abraham's believing made Abraham righteous.
The "his faith is counted for righteousness" is Christ's faith imputed to Abraham, not Abraham's faith.
[Rom 4:9 KJV] 9 [Cometh] this blessedness then upon the circumcision [only], or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.
Only the elect. God hated Esau and Cain in the Bible. Also Judas was cursed. Seems strange to me that he actually hates some people. They do not have their name in the book of life.
I mean Cain and Judas make sense. Why Esau? He was into fornication and was ungrateful, sold his rights to his brother, lazy, etc.
I mean Cain and Judas make sense. Why Esau? He was into fornication and was ungrateful, sold his rights to his brother, lazy, etc.
Of course Christ alone is the Savior, and nobody disputes that. But the rest of your doctrine is totally false. You do not even know why the Gospel exists, since if you did you would not continue in your errors.
TOTAL DEPRAVITY = FALSE DOCTRINE. God commands ALL MEN everywhere to repent.
UNCONDITIONAL ELECTION = FALSE DOCTRINE. God will have ALL MEN to be saved and to come unto the knowledge of the truth,
LIMITED ATONEMENT = FALSE DOCTRINE. Christ died for the sins of the whole world.
IRRESISTIBLE GRACE = FALSE DOCTRINE. Many will disobey the Gospel.
PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS = FALSE DOCTRINE. Believers are kept by the power of God.
Can't have the first one, the one which you say is true, without also having the ones that you say are false. They are all parts of the whole.
You really should think through what you're saying BEFORE you say it.
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Niki7
Guest
You are directly in opposition to what scripture plainly states
4 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, tour forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
I made the font nice and big so you could focus on it and it plainly states that Abrahams faith was counted as righteousness
You really have to twist scripture something fierce to say otherwise