Does the sovereignty of God nullify the grace of God?
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
You won't find that in the Bible. Instead you will find this: But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; (Titus 3:4,5)
Grace is all about kindness, love, and mercy. So where do you see "sovereign" in that verse? In fact you will not find the word "sovereign" anywhere in the King James Bible.
Grace is all about kindness, love, and mercy. So where do you see "sovereign" in that verse? In fact you will not find the word "sovereign" anywhere in the King James Bible.
Grace is much more than that, as shown in the passage from Titus. But you could not show the word "sovereign " in the same passage could you? Which means that you have cooked up your own definition of grace -- a Calvinistic definition which perverts the Gospel. And grace is not simply "an act". It involves the love, kindness, and mercy of God as noted in that passage also. And the Bible speaks of "the exceeding riches of His grace".
Not at all
God is Sovereign(supreme power or authority. ) at all times because it is an Attribute of His Divine Nature are you suggesting that God omits His sovereignty to show grace? There is much more about Grace than just Titus.
Ephesians 2:8–9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Romans 5:20–21
Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Hebrews 4:15–16
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
God is Sovereign(supreme power or authority. ) at all times because it is an Attribute of His Divine Nature are you suggesting that God omits His sovereignty to show grace? There is much more about Grace than just Titus.
Ephesians 2:8–9
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Romans 5:20–21
Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Hebrews 4:15–16
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.
Thank you for your question
Sovereign is a Attribute of God which power and authority. One who as the authority to make law exercises the authority to do so'
Yet the Law is prefect of God and the penalty for breaking them is God right to carry them out Unless Grace is Given. Who give grace ? Yet the one who can judge and still pardon. And undeserving act by one who is Sovereign. I hope that helps.
Sovereign is a Attribute of God which power and authority. One who as the authority to make law exercises the authority to do so'
Yet the Law is prefect of God and the penalty for breaking them is God right to carry them out Unless Grace is Given. Who give grace ? Yet the one who can judge and still pardon. And undeserving act by one who is Sovereign. I hope that helps.
Are you saying -
"Being sovereign is an attribute of God and is to have power and authority. A sovereign is one who has authority to invent and impose laws, and who exercises the authority to enforce them.
God's laws are are perfect, and God has the right to impose penalties on law-breakers, unless He graciously extends undeserved forgiveness. A sovereign is someone who can judge, and pardon the undeserving if he wants to." ?
"Being sovereign is an attribute of God and is to have power and authority. A sovereign is one who has authority to invent and impose laws, and who exercises the authority to enforce them.
God's laws are are perfect, and God has the right to impose penalties on law-breakers, unless He graciously extends undeserved forgiveness. A sovereign is someone who can judge, and pardon the undeserving if he wants to." ?
Let me try to explain it as simple and I can I do not think were are in agreement but I am not going to say you are wrong
.God Has to Judge sin. This is the hurling assaults from Satan who accuses the brethren Believe.
God must judge sin. My sin. HE must judge He must use his power and authority to do so. Because HE is Holy.
Yet He demands blood for sin. Jesus made that payment and removed the punishment of the law from me. God willingness not to punish me was because another took it on my behalf. It is not that God want to per say, it is God Made away out of HIS Judgment.
Very powerful stuff I might say.
Let me try to explain it as simple and I can I do not think were are in agreement but I am not going to say you are wrong .
God Has to Judge sin. This is the hurling assaults from Satan who accuses the brethren Believe.
God must judge sin. My sin. HE must judge He must use his power and authority to do so. Because HE is Holy.
Yet He demands blood for sin. Jesus made that payment and removed the punishment of the law from me. God willingness not to punish me was because another took it on my behalf. It is not that God want to per say, it is God Made away out of HIS Judgment.
Very powerful stuff I might say.
.God Has to Judge sin. This is the hurling assaults from Satan who accuses the brethren Believe.
God must judge sin. My sin. HE must judge He must use his power and authority to do so. Because HE is Holy.
Yet He demands blood for sin. Jesus made that payment and removed the punishment of the law from me. God willingness not to punish me was because another took it on my behalf. It is not that God want to per say, it is God Made away out of HIS Judgment.
Very powerful stuff I might say.
-
1
- Show all
There is a definition that is taken as, summarily, "God gets what God wants," and so he must not want "all to be saved" since not all are saved... however, I see it more accurately as, and this is probably not word for word either, "God wants everyone to come to the knowledge of salvation," that is 'to know salvation, that is Christ." Is not the desire for each 'comer's' involvement by his/her coming (which is an action word) also contained within that will?
Jesus said, "I will draw all men to Me" and also, "no man can come to Me unless the Father draws him" so tell me Who, then, exerts the initial draw? Does anyone know? Yet, that not everyone comes to know salvation equates to...God not wanting them to come rather than them not willing to come?! Is it out of God's character to offer regard the will of man, I mean isn't considering an individual's will a might too humble to be God? Yet, Jesus said, "Come, and learn of me... I am humble and lowly of heart..."
Oh well, anyway. I came here 10 years ago with the hopes of finding the Christian rendition of the Borg, all that we could accomplish if we were all actually one. Just think of the potential to dissolve the world in a total blazing glory... I must be delusional.
Jesus said, "I will draw all men to Me" and also, "no man can come to Me unless the Father draws him" so tell me Who, then, exerts the initial draw? Does anyone know? Yet, that not everyone comes to know salvation equates to...God not wanting them to come rather than them not willing to come?! Is it out of God's character to offer regard the will of man, I mean isn't considering an individual's will a might too humble to be God? Yet, Jesus said, "Come, and learn of me... I am humble and lowly of heart..."
Oh well, anyway. I came here 10 years ago with the hopes of finding the Christian rendition of the Borg, all that we could accomplish if we were all actually one. Just think of the potential to dissolve the world in a total blazing glory... I must be delusional.
There is a definition that is taken as, summarily, "God gets what God wants," and so he must not want "all to be saved" since not all are saved... however, I see it more accurately as, and this is probably not word for word either, "God wants everyone to come to the knowledge of salvation," that is 'to know salvation, that is Christ." Is not the desire for each 'comer's' involvement by his/her coming (which is an action word) also contained within that will?
Jesus said, "I will draw all men to Me" and also, "no man can come to Me unless the Father draws him" so tell me Who, then, exerts the initial draw? Does anyone know? Yet, that not everyone comes to know salvation equates to...God not wanting them to come rather than them not willing to come?! Is it out of God's character to offer regard the will of man, I mean isn't considering an individual's will a might too humble to be God? Yet, Jesus said, "Come, and learn of me... I am humble and lowly of heart..."
Oh well, anyway. I came here 10 years ago with the hopes of finding the Christian rendition of the Borg, all that we could accomplish if we were all actually one. Just think of the potential to dissolve the world in a total blazing glory... I must be delusional.
Jesus said, "I will draw all men to Me" and also, "no man can come to Me unless the Father draws him" so tell me Who, then, exerts the initial draw? Does anyone know? Yet, that not everyone comes to know salvation equates to...God not wanting them to come rather than them not willing to come?! Is it out of God's character to offer regard the will of man, I mean isn't considering an individual's will a might too humble to be God? Yet, Jesus said, "Come, and learn of me... I am humble and lowly of heart..."
Oh well, anyway. I came here 10 years ago with the hopes of finding the Christian rendition of the Borg, all that we could accomplish if we were all actually one. Just think of the potential to dissolve the world in a total blazing glory... I must be delusional.
If you find someone interested in frankly discussing what THEY see in scripture rather than merely parroting what they were TOLD they should see, you will be very fortunate. They are around, like an occasional diamond found n a coal seam.
Grace and peace.
-
1
- Show all