the Sabbath

[mailmandan]

Paul wrote Col 2. If, IF, that is referring to the 10 commandments, Paul is saying they are nailed to the cross. They are against us, contrary to us, and took it out of the way. Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
But Paul also said ....
We should establish the law. It is Holy, just, good and It is Spiritual.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

It can not be the same law.
When people understand that at least 2 different laws are being talked about these verse no longer controdict each other.

James said the law is perfect and Jesus said it would not pass away.

Knowing that the handwriting of ordinances contained yearly sabbaths is helpful.

Colossians 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

Ephesians 2:15 - having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace.

Colossians 2:14 and Ephesians 2:15 refer to the old covenant of law including the ten commandments. Also see 2 Corinthians 3:6-9.

 

[mailmandan]

That is the old covenant and what is the new covenant?

It's not the old covenant repackaged.

 

[TMS]

Colossians 2:14 - Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

Ephesians 2:15 - having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace.

Colossians 2:14 and Ephesians 2:15 refer to the old covenant of law including the ten commandments. Also see 2 Corinthians 3:6-9.

Col 2 and Eph 2 are referring to the ordinances, please prove that these are the 10 commandments.
2 Cor 3 is referring to the 10 commandments but if you read it from the start it is referring to the glory. Verse 3 states that we have the law on our hearts.

2Co 3:3 KJV Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

The glory of the event and the stones are past away. But the law is on our hearts.

2Co 3:7-8 KJV 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

The law did condemn us to death because it pointed out sin. Sin = death. If this event was glorious and that glory was to pass away, how much more glorious should the ministration of the Spirit writting the law on our hearts.

Read it...

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

I will put my law into their minds and hearts.

 

[Inquisitor]

The reason these points were made is because people have stated that by faith they don't need to keep the law.

I'm trying to point out that true faith will obey the law.

Obeying the law does not make you a legalist.
Obeying it to gain salvation by your own righteousness is legalism.

But if you love Jesus and want to be a child of heaven the law will be a delight.

By faith Jesus will impart (sanctify) His righteousness in us which results in obedience to God's perfect, holy law.

Is the law a delight?

601 Not to keep alive any individual of the seven Canaanite nations (Deut. 20:16)

602 To exterminate the seven Canaanite nations from the land of Israel (Deut. 20:17)

 

[Inquisitor]

Quoted from the 10 commandments.

God gave a law called the 10 commandments. They are a set of 10 laws written on stone by God.

You can cut out part or say only part of it applies, but the law was set as the 10 commandments. 10 not 9, or 8 or 5.

Mat 19:17-19 ......but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. 18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said,

....Thou shalt do no murder,
....Thou shalt not commit adultery,
....Thou shalt not steal,
....Thou shalt not bear false witness,
....19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

These were not mentioned....
Thou shalt not covit,
Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image,
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain;
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

All of these are not mentioned but that does not mean they are not to be kept.

The law grants the knowledge of sin and condemned you. That's past tense.

No one can obey the law. No one can be holy or even bear any fruit. Not one person can do these things.

Only through the power of the Holy Spirit, will anyone bear fruit.

The real regeneration, sanctification, belongs to the Lord alone.

Remember, commit the deeds of the flesh and your not gaining entry to heaven.

Galatians 5:18-19
But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Can you see why Paul said this to the Galatians?

It is not the letter of the law, it is a profound regeneration in your deeper nature.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

You become a new creation in Jesus Christ.

 

[Inquisitor]

Do you think Noah was dishonouring his parents, killing, stealing, lying, coveting, comiting adultery, taking God's Name in vain, making graven images, having god's before the Lord Almighty, or forgetting the Sabbath?

Most will agree that 9 of these commandments were kept by Noah even without solid biblical proof. But its not comfortable to say he kept 1 of them.

I do believe that the Lord spared Noah for a reason. Noah escaped, not by being obedient to some law.
The Lord could easily have destroyed Noah and Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. In fact, only 8 were spared.

Paul told you that no one was righteous, not one.

 

[mailmandan]

Col 2 and Eph 2 are referring to the ordinances, please prove that these are the 10 commandments.

Leviticus 19 lists 5 of the 10 commandments as well as 24 references to the "ceremonial law" and calls them My statutes and all My ordinances without differentiation.

In Deuteronomy 5:1 the ten commandments are called "My statutes and all My ordinances."

In Deuteronomy 5:1-6:25 we have two whole chapters that deal exclusively with the ten commandments and the following 5 terms are used interchangeably without distinction: "statutes", "ordinances", "commandments", "judgments", "testimonies."

In Ezekiel 20:19-21 My sabbaths (including the weekly sabbath) is called "My statutes and all My ordinances."

In Nehemiah 9:13-14 the weekly sabbath is included without distinction: "ordinances, true laws, good statutes, commandments."

Malachi chapter 4 closes with a call to keep "statutes and ordinances" which obviously include the 10 commandments.

2 Cor 3 is referring to the 10 commandments but if you read it from the start it is referring to the glory. Verse 3 states that we have the law on our hearts.

The 10 commandments yes and its not the old covenant of law on our hearts.

2Co 3:3 KJV Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

The glory of the event and the stones are past away. But the law is on our hearts.

2Co 3:7-8 KJV 7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: 8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

The law did condemn us to death because it pointed out sin. Sin = death. If this event was glorious and that glory was to pass away, how much more glorious should the ministration of the Spirit writting the law on our hearts.

None of us have flawlessly kept the law (including the 10 commandments). The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.

Read it...

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

I will put my law into their minds and hearts.

I have read it and again, not the old covenant of law.

 

[TMS]

You missed the point.

The word Law can referr to a few different things and the ordanaces can to.

You are connecting the 10 commandments to these laws and ordinances. I'm asking that you prove from scripture that it is the 10 commandments that were nailed to the cross. Prove that it was the 10 commandments that are referred to in these verses.

None of us have flawlessly kept the law (including the 10 commandments). The law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the law of the letter. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter.

The 10 commandments are spiritual and can be written on our hearts. Keeping it inwardly verses outwardly.

 

[TMS]

How can God judge us guilty of sin if the law that defines sin is not valid.

Can we be judged as coveting if the law that states thou shalt not covet is no longer condemning us.

Let's get things the right way....

We are saved and can stand before God because we are judged as righteous.

We are judged as righteous because Jesus has given us His righteousness

Jesus can Give us His righteousness because He paid for our sins as a sinless man.

We needed salvation because we were lost and dead in sin. We were all guilty of sin because the moral law has not changed from the start. Old or new Testament we are all are guilty.

Jesus did not change the moral law, remove the moral law or salvation would not be needed today. If God could remove the or change the law, Jesus would not have needed to die and the standard of righteousness would not be the same.

The everlasting covenant has not changed.
Salvation has not changed. Righteousness has not changed and God's moral law has not changed.

 

[mailmandan]

You missed the point.

The word Law can refer to a few different things and the ordanaces can to.

As in Genesis 26:5 prior to the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 15:2-3; Nehemiah 9:13-14) Yet according to your argument, in Colossians 2:14 and Ephesians 2:15, Paul must not be referring to the 10 commandments, yet in Genesis 26:5 (commandments) must mean 10 commandments. How convenient for you.

You are connecting the 10 commandments to these laws and ordinances.

Other translations clarify further. Colossians 2:14 - by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. (ESV)

Colossians 2:14 - Because we broke God’s laws, we owed a debt—a debt that listed all the rules we failed to follow. But God forgave us of that debt. He took it away and nailed it to the cross. (ERV)

Colossians 2:14 - We had broken the Law many ways. Those sins were held against us by the Law. That Law had writings which said we were sinners. But now He has destroyed that writing by nailing it to the cross. (NLV)

Colossians 2:14 - God wiped out the charges that were against us for disobeying the Law of Moses. He took them away and nailed them to the cross. (CEV)

The Law of Moses includes the 10 commandments. James 2:10 - For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

Ephesians 2:15 is clear - by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace. (ESV) Multiple other translations say law of commandments and commandments contained in ordinances, which lines up with Colossians 2:14.

I'm asking that you prove from scripture that it is the 10 commandments that were nailed to the cross. Prove that it was the 10 commandments that are referred to in these verses.

I already did. Leviticus 19 lists 5 of the 10 commandments as well as 24 references to the "ceremonial law" and calls them My statutes and all My ordinances without differentiation.

In Deuteronomy 5:1 the ten commandments are called "My statutes and all My ordinances."

In Deuteronomy 5:1-6:25 we have two whole chapters that deal exclusively with the ten commandments and the following 5 terms are used interchangeably without distinction: "statutes", "ordinances", "commandments", "judgments", "testimonies."

In Ezekiel 20:19-21 My sabbaths (including the weekly sabbath) is called "My statutes and all My ordinances."

In Nehemiah 9:13-14 the weekly sabbath is included without distinction: "ordinances, true laws, good statutes, commandments."

Malachi chapter 4 closes with a call to keep "statutes and ordinances" which obviously include the 10 commandments.

The 10 commandments are spiritual and can be written on our hearts. Keeping it inwardly verses outwardly.

Since the old covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God made the old covenant obsolete to legally put into place the new covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13) The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), and the apostle Paul says that by bearing one another's burdens, we fulfill "law of Christ." (Galatians 6:2) So, love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10) and out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 2:7; James 5:12
4. Keep the sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

The moral aspect of the law is written on our hearts. So once again, the law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the letter of the law. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter in 2 Corinthians 3:6-9.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Will there ever be a time we cannot serve or love Christ. If the answer is no, then we should always keep the Sabbath because we love and want to serve Him. The Sabbath points us back to our Creator, Exo 20:11 He is the one that can sanctify us Eze 20:12- we can't sanctify ourselves that's depending on our own works.

Col 2:16-17 is a classic reason why we have this warning in scripture 2 Peter 3:16 about Pauls' writings when they contradict the plain teachings of Jesus- not one dot or tittle of the law can be changed because man is not above God. Mat 5:18 Finger written by God is not handwritten by man.

If we remove any part of the Ten Commandments from God's ark of the covenant- we remove His mercy as the Ten Commandments sit under His mercy seat. He tells us how we can receive His mercy right in the Ten Commandments Exo 20:6 through love and obedience which is what the Sabbath is about. It shows we worship the one True God. Eze 20:20


Isa 56:6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant

I want to join myself to the Lord to be His servant so I will follow Him and Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy instead of following man that I can profane and forget His holy Sabbath commandment.

 

[Dino246]

Will there ever be a time we cannot serve or love Christ. If the answer is no, then we should always keep the Sabbath because we love and want to serve Him. The Sabbath points us back to our Creator, Exo 20:11 He is the one that can sanctify us Eze 20:12- we can't sanctify ourselves that's depending on our own works.
If you're celebrating a fleshly sabbath, you aren't doing anything that pleases God. The weekly Sabbath is a shadow of the true Sabbath found in Jesus Christ.

Col 2:16-17 is a classic reason why we have this warning in scripture 2 Peter 3:16 about Pauls' writings when they contradict the plain teachings of Jesus

Which they never do.

If we remove any part of the Ten Commandments from God's ark of the covenant- we remove His mercy as the Ten Commandments sit under His mercy seat.

That's a non sequitur.

Isa 56:6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant

I want to join myself to the Lord to be His servant so I will follow Him and Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy instead of following man that I can profane and forget His holy Sabbath commandment.

Which you do by trusting in the finished work of Jesus Christ, thereby entering the rest He has obtained for you. You don't do it by tying yourself in knots every Saturday, nor by congratulating yourself that you have done so.

 

[Dino246]

Justification is the platform for sanctification

They are related, but not conflated.

Justification is judicial reinstatement to the status of righteousness. It is instant and enduring, not needing to be renewed because it is wholly dependent on the finished work of Jesus.

Sanctification is the relational reinstatement to the lifestyle of righteousness. It is instant and ongoing, because we still live in flesh tents that are subject to sin, and therefore need continual cleansing.

 

[TMS]

As in Genesis 26:5 prior to the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 15:2-3; Nehemiah 9:13-14) Yet according to your argument, in Colossians 2:14 and Ephesians 2:15, Paul must not be referring to the 10 commandments, yet in Genesis 26:5 (commandments) must mean 10 commandments. How convenient for you.

Other translations clarify further. Colossians 2:14 - by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. (ESV)

Colossians 2:14 - Because we broke God’s laws, we owed a debt—a debt that listed all the rules we failed to follow. But God forgave us of that debt. He took it away and nailed it to the cross. (ERV)

Colossians 2:14 - We had broken the Law many ways. Those sins were held against us by the Law. That Law had writings which said we were sinners. But now He has destroyed that writing by nailing it to the cross. (NLV)

Colossians 2:14 - God wiped out the charges that were against us for disobeying the Law of Moses. He took them away and nailed them to the cross. (CEV)

The Law of Moses includes the 10 commandments. James 2:10 - For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

Ephesians 2:15 is clear - by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace. (ESV) Multiple other translations say law of commandments and commandments contained in ordinances, which lines up with Colossians 2:14.

I already did. Leviticus 19 lists 5 of the 10 commandments as well as 24 references to the "ceremonial law" and calls them My statutes and all My ordinances without differentiation.

In Deuteronomy 5:1 the ten commandments are called "My statutes and all My ordinances."

In Deuteronomy 5:1-6:25 we have two whole chapters that deal exclusively with the ten commandments and the following 5 terms are used interchangeably without distinction: "statutes", "ordinances", "commandments", "judgments", "testimonies."

In Ezekiel 20:19-21 My sabbaths (including the weekly sabbath) is called "My statutes and all My ordinances."

In Nehemiah 9:13-14 the weekly sabbath is included without distinction: "ordinances, true laws, good statutes, commandments."

Malachi chapter 4 closes with a call to keep "statutes and ordinances" which obviously include the 10 commandments.

Since the old covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God made the old covenant obsolete to legally put into place the new covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13) The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), and the apostle Paul says that by bearing one another's burdens, we fulfill "law of Christ." (Galatians 6:2) So, love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10) and out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 2:7; James 5:12
4. Keep the sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

The moral aspect of the law is written on our hearts. So once again, the law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the letter of the law. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter in 2 Corinthians 3:6-9.

After all this you say love fulfills the law and is written on our heart. But only 9 of the 10 are... I agree that love fulfills the law and that they are written on the heart. I promote this same principle but I promote all 10 not 9 of the 10 commandments.
James promotes the whole law. The sabbath command is part of the law..
If James had said... For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not forget the sabbath. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou forget the sabbath, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Would you believe?
Jas 2:8-12
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Jesus said after quoting laws from the 10 commandments, that one jot or tittle yet alone a whole commandment shall in no wise pass from the law.

Mat 5:18-19
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Are you teaching men to break one of these commandments? You will be called least in the kingdom.

The sabbath is all through the NT and kept holy in Acts after the death and resurrection of Jesus.

To say it does not count today is a twisted misunderstanding, and to say 9 of the 10 count today is also not the way God works.
If the moral laws of love include 9 of the 10 why did God put the Sabbath in with them knowing that 9 would apply today but one wouldn't? God knows the beginning from the end, He knows the the sabbath debate we are having and it has always been a testing point. Even for the Jews in the past. It is a sign of faithfulness.

Heb 4:9-10
9 There remaineth therefore a rest (sabbatismos) to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

 

[mailmandan]

After all this you say love fulfills the law and is written on our heart. But only 9 of the 10 are... I agree that love fulfills the law and that they are written on the heart. I promote this same principle but I promote all 10 not 9 of the 10 commandments.
James promotes the whole law. The sabbath command is part of the law..
If James had said... For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not forget the sabbath. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou forget the sabbath, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Would you believe?
Jas 2:8-12
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: 9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. 10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Jesus said after quoting laws from the 10 commandments, that one jot or tittle yet alone a whole commandment shall in no wise pass from the law.

Mat 5:18-19
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Are you teaching men to break one of these commandments? You will be called least in the kingdom.

The sabbath is all through the NT and kept holy in Acts after the death and resurrection of Jesus.

To say it does not count today is a twisted misunderstanding, and to say 9 of the 10 count today is also not the way God works.
If the moral laws of love include 9 of the 10 why did God put the Sabbath in with them knowing that 9 would apply today but one wouldn't? God knows the beginning from the end, He knows the the sabbath debate we are having and it has always been a testing point. Even for the Jews in the past. It is a sign of faithfulness.

Heb 4:9-10
9 There remaineth therefore a rest (sabbatismos) to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

The new covenant was not yet fully established in the 4 gospel accounts in the NT and throughout the book of Acts, Paul's work when entering the synagogues was evangelism.

Notice that these were "unbelievers" in Christ before Paul preached to them. Yes they believed in the Jewish system, but the Bible says in Acts 14:1, that they BECAME believers proving Paul's work there was evangelism and not sabbath worship.

The Greeks were Jewish converts to Judaism known as proselytes. They practiced the law of Moses and kept the sabbath. The only Greeks that were in the synagogue would be these proselytes. These Greeks were not yet Christians.

Acts 13:43 "Now when the meeting of the synagogue had broken up, many of the Jews and of the God-fearing proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, were urging them to continue in the grace of God." 44 On the next sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul. 46 Then Paul and Barnabas grew bold and said, "It was necessary that the word of God should be spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles.

Acts 14:1 - "In Iconium they entered the synagogue of the Jews together and spoke in such a manner that a large number of people believed, both of Jews and of Greeks."

Acts 17:4 - "And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, along with a large number of the God-fearing Greeks and a number of the leading women.

Acts 18:4 - "And he was reasoning in the synagogue every Sabbath and trying to persuade Jews and Greeks."

Again, Paul's work here was evangelism and not sabbath worship.

Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day— 17 tthings which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

Hebrews 4:9 - So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God. (NASB) Everyone should take note that the Greek word "sabbatismos" here is used nowhere else in the Bible. I often hear SDA's suggest that this is the word for "keeping the weekly sabbath" when it is never used anywhere else in the Bible!

W. E. Vine, Greek Dictionary points out:

Sabbath rest (4520) (sabbatismos from sabbatízo = keep the Sabbath) literally means a keeping of a sabbath or a keeping of days of rest. It is used in this passage not in the literal sense (meaning to keep a specific day, the "Sabbath" day) but to describe a period of rest for God’s people which is modeled after and is a fulfillment of the traditional Sabbath.

SABBATISMOS a Sabbath-keeping, is used in Heb. 4:9, R.V., "a Sabbath rest," A.V. marg., "a keeping of a Sabbath" (akin to sabbatizoµ, to keep the Sabbath, used, e.g., in Ex. 16:30, not in the N.T.); here the Sabbath-keeping is the perpetual Sabbath rest to be enjoyed uninterruptedly by believers in their fellowship with the Father and the Son, in contrast to the weekly Sabbath under the Law.

Because this Sabbath rest is the rest of God Himself, its full fruition is yet future, though believers now enter into it. In whatever way they enter into divine “rest,” that which they enjoy is involved in an indissoluble relation with God. (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words)

http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=35458

That settles it for me.

 

[TMS]

Again, Paul's work here was evangelism and not sabbath worship.

Evangelism is no doubt part of Paul's work.
But you can't get around the fact that Paul was doing this on the Sabbath. The people would have been worshiping God as a result and you can say worship was not part of These events.

Worship can happen on every day of the week but Paul choose the sabbath.

The whole town came to worship....you can't say they were all Jews or Proselytes.

You will find an excuse for everything.

I do not deny the rest we need to find in Jesus. The spiritual rest. But I will not continue in sin because of the grace Jesus gives us.

Heb 4 can have a Spiritual meaning but you refuse to see the literal meaning too.
Heb 4:4-5
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Eze 22:8 Thou hast despised mine holy things, and hast profaned my sabbaths.

Col 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The Sabbaths that are a shadow of Jesus are the laws that Moses gave in regard to yearly sabbaths. The days they kept holy each year which are not the same as the weekly sabbath. The land had a sabbath every 7 years.

These verses do not prove that the 4th commandment was a shadow and was nailed to the cross.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Evangelism is no doubt part of Paul's work.
But you can't get around the fact that Paul was doing this on the Sabbath. The people would have been worshiping God as a result and you can say worship was not part of These events.

Worship can happen on every day of the week but Paul choose the sabbath.

The whole town came to worship....you can't say they were all Jews or Proselytes.

You will find an excuse for everything.

I do not deny the rest we need to find in Jesus. The spiritual rest. But I will not continue in sin because of the grace Jesus gives us.

Heb 4 can have a Spiritual meaning but you refuse to see the literal meaning too.
Heb 4:4-5
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. 5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

Eze 22:8 Thou hast despised mine holy things, and hast profaned my sabbaths.

Col 2:16-17
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The Sabbaths that are a shadow of Jesus are the laws that Moses gave in regard to yearly sabbaths. The days they kept holy each year which are not the same as the weekly sabbath. The land had a sabbath every 7 years.

These verses do not prove that the 4th commandment was a shadow and was nailed to the cross.

Agreed!

Jesus in His own Words said the weekly Sabbath would not end at the Cross when He indicated His people would be keeping it decades after the Cross at the destruction of Jerusalem Mat 24:20 which reconciles which His very own Words, heaven and earth would pass away before one jot or tittle of His law could be changed- heaven and earth are still here therefore we are not to break or teach others to break the least of these Commandments Mat 5:18-30.

 

[mailmandan]

 

[SabbathBlessing]

If we truly believed the blood of Jesus ratified His covenant, nothing more would be added. The faithful followers of Jesus kept the Sabbath after His death according to the commandment Luke 23:56 If His faithful servants were wrong Jesus would have corrected them, but not one mention of any change to His holy Sabbath commandment. Jesus commissioned His apostles to observe everything He commanded Mat 28:18-20 and the faithful apostles observed every Sabbath with Jews and Gentiles Acts 13:42:42 Acts 18:4 not one mention of any change, this is over 3000 years later. That’s a lot of Sabbath-keeping.

Hebrews was written thousands of years after the Cross and before the destruction of Jerusalem where Jesus indicated His people would be keeping the Sabbath. Hebrews 3 and 4 is a warning to keep the Sabbath, not the opposite. When Jesus said not to eat from one tree, He meant it, just like He meant when He wrote and spoke with His own finger to Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy, its the same spirit who told Eve she could do the opposite of what God said. Jesus tells us to live by every Word of God that proceeds from His mouth and you will not find one scripture that has a thus saith the Lord that we can profane the Sabbath. All the thus saith the Lords in the entire bible and they are many He tells us to keep and not profane. Only God can reverse His blessing, not man Num 23:20 Thinking we can profane was the same issue the Isralites had- do we follow their example - scripture tells us not to.

Lets go through Hebrews and start with Hebrews 3 as it sets up the background for Hebrews 4

7 Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
In the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me,
And saw My works forty years.
10 Therefore I was angry with that generation,
And said, ‘They always go astray in their heart,
And they have not known My ways.’
11 So I swore in My wrath,
‘They shall not enter My rest.’ ”
12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but [b]exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, 15 while it is said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”
16 For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? 17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? 18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? 19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

Please note the rest in these verses is not the seventh day Sabbath. It is this rest:

katapausis: rest
Original Word: κατάπαυσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: katapausis
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ap'-ow-sis)
Definition: rest
Usage: (in the Old Testament of the rest attained by the settlement in Canaan), resting, rest, dwelling, habitation.

So the Israelites rebelled in the wilderness and could not enter into their rest.

Ezekiel tells us what the Israelites disobeyed in the wilderness and why some who did never entered into their Promised rest

Ezekiel 20:12 Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them. 13 Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them.

Ezekiel 20:20
20 hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the Lord your God.’ 21 “Notwithstanding, the children rebelled against Me; they did not walk in My statutes, and were not careful to observe My judgments, ‘which, if a man does, he shall live by them’; but they profaned My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them and fulfill My anger against them in the wilderness.

Also keep in mind Moses reviewed the Ten Commandments which includes the Sabbath commandment 40 years after they were given by God and right before Joshua led them into the Promises Land (their rest) and told them to diligently keep, so it would be a dangerous mistake to think we can follow their same example of disobedience Hebrews 4:11 to receive our rest in Christ Heb 4:10

So with this background it should make understanding Hebrews 4 easier. This whole passage is about how we are not to follow their same example of disobedience Heb 4:6 Heb 4:11 and why the Sabbath-rest (keeping) remains (not changed) for God's people. Hebrews 4:9 NIV and the rest in this verse literally translates into Sabbath-keeping

sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Definition: a sabbath rest
Usage: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

Hebrews 4:10 Those who enter into His rest (Christ rest) ALSO cease from his works as God did from His.

When did God cease from His works?

This very passage tells us.....

Hebrews 4:4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; Which is a reference to the 4th commandment Exo 20:8-11

What is the seventh day according to God? He tells us so plainly written with His own finger!

The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God. Exo 20:10

Those who enter His rest also rest on the seventh day (Sabbath keeping) just as God did Exo 20:11. Man is made in the image of God to follow Him.

Sabbath keeping never ended for the people of God, but remains which is why we are not to follow the same path of disobedience of the Israelites. Heb 4:11 In God's rest there is no rebellion to Him or His commandments and the Sabbath is a commandments of God that remains for His people.

Oh, that you had heeded My commandments!
Then your peace would have been like a river,
And your righteousness like the waves of the sea.
Isa 48:18

 

[SabbathBlessing]

As in Genesis 26:5 prior to the law of Moses? (Deuteronomy 15:2-3; Nehemiah 9:13-14) Yet according to your argument, in Colossians 2:14 and Ephesians 2:15, Paul must not be referring to the 10 commandments, yet in Genesis 26:5 (commandments) must mean 10 commandments. How convenient for you.

Other translations clarify further. Colossians 2:14 - by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. (ESV)

Colossians 2:14 - Because we broke God’s laws, we owed a debt—a debt that listed all the rules we failed to follow. But God forgave us of that debt. He took it away and nailed it to the cross. (ERV)

Colossians 2:14 - We had broken the Law many ways. Those sins were held against us by the Law. That Law had writings which said we were sinners. But now He has destroyed that writing by nailing it to the cross. (NLV)

Colossians 2:14 - God wiped out the charges that were against us for disobeying the Law of Moses. He took them away and nailed them to the cross. (CEV)

The Law of Moses includes the 10 commandments. James 2:10 - For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

Ephesians 2:15 is clear - by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace. (ESV) Multiple other translations say law of commandments and commandments contained in ordinances, which lines up with Colossians 2:14.

I already did. Leviticus 19 lists 5 of the 10 commandments as well as 24 references to the "ceremonial law" and calls them My statutes and all My ordinances without differentiation.

In Deuteronomy 5:1 the ten commandments are called "My statutes and all My ordinances."

In Deuteronomy 5:1-6:25 we have two whole chapters that deal exclusively with the ten commandments and the following 5 terms are used interchangeably without distinction: "statutes", "ordinances", "commandments", "judgments", "testimonies."

In Ezekiel 20:19-21 My sabbaths (including the weekly sabbath) is called "My statutes and all My ordinances."

In Nehemiah 9:13-14 the weekly sabbath is included without distinction: "ordinances, true laws, good statutes, commandments."

Malachi chapter 4 closes with a call to keep "statutes and ordinances" which obviously include the 10 commandments.

Since the old covenant has been made obsolete, does this leave us with no moral direction? Absolutely not. God made the old covenant obsolete to legally put into place the new covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:6-9; Hebrews 8:6-13) The life of discipleship flows out of the new command, to love one another as He loved us (John 13:34), and the apostle Paul says that by bearing one another's burdens, we fulfill "law of Christ." (Galatians 6:2) So, love fulfills the law (Romans 13:8-10) and out of this single command comes other commands, including references for the moral aspect of 9 of the 10 commandments which are reiterated under the new covenant, yet the command to keep the sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the new covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 2:7; James 5:12
4. Keep the sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

The moral aspect of the law is written on our hearts. So once again, the law on our heart and mind is the love of the Spirit, not the letter of the law. This is why Paul tells us that the new covenant is a covenant of the Spirit, and not of the letter in 2 Corinthians 3:6-9.

Weird, so the one commandment that God said Remember- is the one you say we can forget. The one commandment God blessed- man can reverse- not according to scripture. Num 23:20 and the one commanemnt that God made holy- we can profane. Again, not according to God. This is what God says when we do that, this is powerful Words- Jesus tells us to live by Mat 4:4

Eze 22:26 Her priests have violated My law and profaned My holy things; they have not distinguished between the holy and unholy, nor have they made known the difference between the unclean and the clean; and they have hidden their eyes from My Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them

This is Christ Words….this truly can’t be made any clearer

The Sabbath will be kept by His faithful until He reveals Himself and forever Isa 66:22-23

56:1 Thus says the Lord:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”


6:“Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant

Jesus in His own words tells us to obey the commandments of God over the traditions of man and quotes from the Ten Commandments. Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 One can search the scriptures and you will not find where God transferred the Sabbath to any other day. Where you will find God blessed or sanctified any other day aside from the seventh day Sabbath that is a commandment of God written by His own finger. No greater authority than He. God said Remember and that He is the one who sanctifies us Eze 20:12 The Sabbath commandment is the only law that reveals God as the Author Exo 20:11 and man wants to forget. Jesus said to live by every Word- Mat 4:4.