Why have you forsaken me?

[10-22-27]

Scripture says he who knew no sin, became sin.... yeay, I'll go with Scripture. God can not look at sin. As Jesus took upon HIMSELF all the sins of the world, and "became sin," for that brief time between Jesus speaking and His death, God turned His face from Christ.

Stick with Scripture and you will do well,

Sorry, "He became a sin offering, not sin." If he died with sin, he would not have been the perfect sacrifice. Can't have it both ways.

 

[10-22-27]

He was speaking to the Father. As horrible as the physical aspect was, He never cried out. But when The Father forsook Him, He screamed out. And It's the only time He called His Father(Abba/daddy)......God. This is what paid the price for the sins of the whole world. His substitutionary spiritual death......separated from the Father on the cross. His substitutionary spiritual death procured believers spiritual salvation. His physical death procured our resurrection bodies.

The spiritual was finished when He said," It is finished." And He guaranteed believers spiritual birth. When He physically died and gave up His spirit, He guaranteed our physical resurrection.

You forgot, before he died, his last words were to his Father who you say forsook him,

Luke 23:46, "Father, into your hands I commend my spirit." Doesn't sound like he was forsaken to me. He said that while he was still alive, and according to you, he was filled with our sins. If he had any sin, according to Jewish law, if a sacrifice had a blemish of any kind, it would be rejected.

When he said it is finished, he fulfilled the law to the last dot, and a blemished sacrifice doesn't cut it, not in my thinking anyway. But thanks for your comments, interesting subject.

 

[Kroogz]

You forgot, before he died, his last words were to his Father who you say forsook him,

Luke 23:46, "Father, into your hands I commend my spirit." Doesn't sound like he was forsaken to me. He said that while he was still alive, and according to you, he was filled with our sins. If he had any sin, according to Jewish law, if a sacrifice had a blemish of any kind, it would be rejected.

When he said it is finished, he fulfilled the law to the last dot, and a blemished sacrifice doesn't cut it, not in my thinking anyway. But thanks for your comments, interesting subject.

No, I didn't forget. When He said," It is finished." The Spiritual payment was finished and He was back with the Father.

What were the unblemished animal sacrifice signifying? Christ. God was temporarily satisfied with the animal sacrifice.........And the unblemished animal had the sins of the people laid upon it.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Agree, but the word bare #399 Strongs does not mean what you think it means. What it means is, to offer up, or to place upon the altar. Same word used in,
Hebrews 7:27, "as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice,"

Hebrews 13:15, "Let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually,"

Leviticus 14:19, "The priest shall offer the sin offering,"

So, 1 Peter 2:24 would be understood as follows, "Who his own self (offered up) our sins in his own body on the tree."

Nevertheless, My explanation stands as to why God turned his back on Jesus.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You forgot, before he died, his last words were to his Father who you say forsook him,

Luke 23:46, "Father, into your hands I commend my spirit." Doesn't sound like he was forsaken to me. He said that while he was still alive, and according to you, he was filled with our sins. If he had any sin, according to Jewish law, if a sacrifice had a blemish of any kind, it would be rejected.

When he said it is finished, he fulfilled the law to the last dot, and a blemished sacrifice doesn't cut it, not in my thinking anyway. But thanks for your comments, interesting subject.

When Jesus made his last comment, the three hours of darkness was over.

 

[10-22-27]

Nevertheless, My explanation stands as to why God turned his back on Jesus.

Just for my curiosity, are you denying what the Hebrew word bare means?

It's so easy for me to see the Lord looking down on a mob of people who are shaking their fist at him, swearing and spitting on him, people that he fed, healed of diseases, raised the dead, showing them one miracle after another, and for no other reason but to appease the decision of the priests and Romans crucified the Lord. Then looking down at them he said to them, "My God, my God why have you forsaken me?"

Another thing missed in this conversation. The Priests of the Temple, the Pharisees, Sadducees and the other knew the Psalms, and when Jesus quoted them, they knew what they did, and who they did it to. Okay, thanks for your thoughts on the subject.

 

[10-22-27]

When Jesus made his last comment, the three hours of darkness was over.

Yes, you correct, the literal darkness of the day was over, but the Jews had entered one very long day of spiritual darkness from that moment unto this day.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

You didn't have to quote Psalms 22 for me, I've been studying it for years. I know Jesus Christ is the Word of God, known that since 1982. My question was, "Was Jesus while hanging on the cross speaking to his Father or to the Jews?

There are only two ways to answer the question, "He was speaking to the Jews," OR, "He was speaking to his Father." It was a simple question, I was curious what people on this forum thought about it, that's all.

Well,he wasn't saying anything about

You didn't have to quote Psalms 22 for me, I've been studying it for years. I know Jesus Christ is the Word of God, known that since 1982. My question was, "Was Jesus while hanging on the cross speaking to his Father or to the Jews?

There are only two ways to answer the question, "He was speaking to the Jews," OR, "He was speaking to his Father." It was a simple question, I was curious what people on this forum thought about it, that's all.

Like I said.It looked like you didn't know Jesus was quoting scripture.If you had ,you should have said so and made it clear that you knew Jesus was quoting scripture.

I answered your question.

 

[selahsays]

The following will likely open a can of worms and lift many eyebrows. But it’s a subject that must be fully understood, not through the eyes of commentators or religious organizations, but by understanding given by the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 27:46, Jesus is hanging from the cross, looking down at a mob of people who hated him. He would utter, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” His last words were in Luke 23:46, “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.”

The word forsaken means to abandon, to turn one’s back on someone, and then walk away.

Here’s the question: was the Lord speaking to his Father or talking to the people standing before him? Before you answer, consider the following.

Is Jesus the Creator, the Almighty? Yes, Revelation 1:8, and John 1:3.

Can God never not be God? No! Why not? Because he is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. And he “upholds all things by the word of His power.”

Did the Father send His Son? Jesus said, “I come to do the will of my Father.”

Did Jesus come to us of His own free will? John 10:15, Jesus said, “I lay down my life for the sheep.” In verse 18, He said, “I have power to lay it (his life) down, and I have power to take it again.”

Was Jesus aware of his pending death? Yes! His death had prophesied in the O.T., and because he is the author and finisher of our faith, he wrote the book.

Did the apostles forsake Him? Yes! Matthew 14:50, “And they all forsook him.”

Did the Jewish people forsake Him? Yes!

Did the Jewish religious leaders forsake Him? Yes!

Did Jesus die for any sin that He had committed? No, he died “a lamb without spot or blemish.”

As the King of Israel, as the High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, he offered himself up as a perfect Lamb without spot of blemish. Last question: Why would the Father reject a perfect sacrifice?

I am aware of the verse in 2 Corinthians 5:21, “For he (Jesus) was made sin for us, who knew no sin:” It should read, “For he was made a sin offering for us who knew no sin” or sacrifice for sin and answers to, the Hebrew word ‘chataah’ which signifies both sin and sin-offering.
Your thoughts.

When Jesus was paying the price for our sins, how could our heavenly Father abandon Him? To even consider such a thing would be blasphemy. In every instance in which Jesus the Son of God spoke with the Father throughout the Bible, He referred to Him as “Father.“ In Matthew 27:46, Jesus was not addressing His Father and was not addressing the people in attendance. No, Jesus was quoting the words from Psalms 22, words which were written 1,000 years before the crucifixion. Jesus always knew what His destiny would be. Have you considered what the Aramaic word, Shbakthani means?

Just as our Father never forsook His Son, He will never forsake His children.
Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

- Deuteronomy 31:6

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

When Jesus was paying the price for our sins, how could our heavenly Father abandon Him? To even consider such a thing would be blasphemy. In every instance in which Jesus the Son of God spoke with the Father throughout the Bible, He referred to Him as “Father.“ In Matthew 27:46, Jesus was not addressing His Father and was not addressing the people in attendance. No, Jesus was quoting the words from Psalms 22, words which were written 1,000 years before the crucifixion. Jesus always knew what His destiny would be. Have you considered what the Aramaic word, Shbakthani means?

Just as our Father never forsook His Son, He will never forsake His children.
Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

- Deuteronomy 31:6

I have an idea the fathers placed the sin of the whole workd upon his shoulders.

And in that moment they where separated but only for a brief moment 😊

 

[selahsays]

I have an idea the fathers placed the sin of the whole workd upon his shoulders.

And in that moment they where separated but only for a brief moment 😊

selahsays, “no way.”

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

selahsays, “no way.” View attachment 260348

ok well the thunder says they could have been separate for a tiny winy moment, like a 1 hundredth of a second. An itsy bitsy fraction of moment.. or Jesus could have felt like it was a separation but it wasn't, it was just the sins of the world being put on his shoulders

Billy Graham says this too,, the message is from 4 minutes 30 to 6 minutes, if you want to speed the video up

 

[bluto]

The following will likely open a can of worms and lift many eyebrows. But it’s a subject that must be fully understood, not through the eyes of commentators or religious organizations, but by understanding given by the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 27:46, Jesus is hanging from the cross, looking down at a mob of people who hated him. He would utter, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” His last words were in Luke 23:46, “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.”

The word forsaken means to abandon, to turn one’s back on someone, and then walk away.

Here’s the question: was the Lord speaking to his Father or talking to the people standing before him? Before you answer, consider the following.

Is Jesus the Creator, the Almighty? Yes, Revelation 1:8, and John 1:3.

Can God never not be God? No! Why not? Because he is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. And he “upholds all things by the word of His power.”

Did the Father send His Son? Jesus said, “I come to do the will of my Father.”

Did Jesus come to us of His own free will? John 10:15, Jesus said, “I lay down my life for the sheep.” In verse 18, He said, “I have power to lay it (his life) down, and I have power to take it again.”

Was Jesus aware of his pending death? Yes! His death had prophesied in the O.T., and because he is the author and finisher of our faith, he wrote the book.

Did the apostles forsake Him? Yes! Matthew 14:50, “And they all forsook him.”

Did the Jewish people forsake Him? Yes!

Did the Jewish religious leaders forsake Him? Yes!

Did Jesus die for any sin that He had committed? No, he died “a lamb without spot or blemish.”

As the King of Israel, as the High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, he offered himself up as a perfect Lamb without spot of blemish. Last question: Why would the Father reject a perfect sacrifice?

I am aware of the verse in 2 Corinthians 5:21, “For he (Jesus) was made sin for us, who knew no sin:” It should read, “For he was made a sin offering for us who knew no sin” or sacrifice for sin and answers to, the Hebrew word ‘chataah’ which signifies both sin and sin-offering.
Your thoughts.

I believe Jesus was quoting Matthew 27:46 to show the spectators that His crucifixion had been prophesied by David at Psalm 22. Demonstrating that He was in fact the "suffering Servant" that had been promised by the Old Testament prophets.

It's important to note that David's immediate reason for writing Psalm 22 was to describe his own feelings of forsakenness while he was being hunted down and persecuted by King Saul.

Like many of the Davidic Psalms, he began by complaining that God had left him. He says at vs11, "Be not far from me, for trouble is near; For there is none to help. Vs12, "Many bulls have surrounded me; Strong bulls of Bashan have encircled me."

I am poured out like water, and my bones are out of joint; My heart is like wax. It is melted within me. My tongue cleaves to my jaws; And Thou does lay me in the dust of death. For dogs have surrounded me; They pierced my hands and my feet.

Then at vs19, "But Thou O Lord be not far off; O Thou my help, hasten to my assistance. Verse 21, "Save me from the lion's mouth; and from the horns of the wild oxen Thou dost answer me."

At vs22 David begins to give exultation of God's goodness when he realized that He never really did forsake him. This is made clear at verses 23-24, "You who fear the Lord, praise Him; All you descendants of Jacob, glorify Him etc. Vs24, "For He has not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted.; Neither has He hidden His face for help, He heard."

Now, here is what Jesus said at John 16:32, "Behold, an hour is coming and has already come for you to be scattered, each to his own home, and to leave Me alone; AND YET I AM NOT ALONE, BECAUSE THE FATHER IS WITH ME."

Also at 2 Corinthians 5:19, "namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation."

On a personal note when I arrived in Vietnam in January of 1968, the Tet offensive just started. Tet is the Lunar New Year in Vietnam. It was an absolutely horrible time. I thought just about every day that God had forsaken me. Especially when your shot at and rocketed frequently. But He did not, here I am 56 years later. I'm positive that many Christians FEEL the same way when put in situations that seem impossible to get out of.

In years past I have heard others say, "The Father abandoned His Son.' Or "the Father cannot look at sin so He turned away from His Son." At Luke 22:42 Jesus' prayer is quite intense and shows His humanity. "Father; if Thou are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Thine be done." Jesus is praying for His death to be averted, but only if it is the Father's will. We know the Father did not alleviate His suffering and in my opinion His Father did not forsake Him. If you think about it one could also say, (Jesus musing), "Why Father did you forsake me to the cross?" Or to put it another way, "Why did I have to go through this?"

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[jb]

No, I didn't forget. When He said," It is finished." The Spiritual payment was finished and He was back with the Father.

You do err, He wasn't back with His Father when He died, the Scriptures expressly say at death His soul went into the Abyss in Hades, His spirit went back to God, and His body went into the tomb!

Acts 2v23-31 (with Rom 10v7, Eph 4v8-10), Luke 23v46, John 19v38-42

Bit of a blog Here, that also links into what I have written above...

 

[oyster67]

The word forsaken means to abandon, to turn one’s back on someone, and then walk away.

Jesus took upon Himself the sins of the world and paid the price we cannot pay. Jesus wanted us to see that sinfulness cannot enter Heaven and that, unless we let Him take away our sins, His Father and He shall likewise turn their backs upon us in the day of judgement. That Jesus could bear the sins of other's is indeed a mysterious concept, but I surely am thankful that He provided a way. It was indeed a dark moment. Sin is a dark and serious matter. There is nothing beautiful about the suffering that happened there. It is what was accomplished that we rejoice in. His Father let Him endure the unthinkable on that day. We will never need to do that. It was a unique moment in time and history when everything went black.

 

[PaulThomson]

OP: The word forsaken means to abandon, to turn one’s back on someone, and then walk away.



Here’s the question: was the Lord speaking to his Father or talking to the people standing before him? Before you answer, consider the following...

The greek for " Why did you forsake me?' is "eis ti (Why) egkatelipes (aorist active indicative 2nd person SINGULAR) me (me)?"

It is not possible that he was addressing the plural crowdS, the plural phariseeS, the plural RomanS... but He was addressing the SINGULAR God.

God removed the hedges around Jesus protecting Him from the evil ones (i.e. (abandoned Him to the evil ones), and allowed them to do their will to the Son.

 

[Magenta]

Sorry, "He became a sin offering, not sin." If he died with sin, he would not have been the perfect sacrifice. Can't have it both ways.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew
no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

 

[PaulThomson]

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew
no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Of course, a man who divorces his wife makes her an adulteress even if she is innocent of any adultery. We can make God a liar, even though he is no liar. In the same way Jesus was made sin. He was treated by the Father as a sinner, though without sin.

 

[JaumeJ]

Of course, a man who divorces his wife makes her an adulteress even if she is innocent of any adultery. We can make God a liar, even though he is no liar. In the same way Jesus was made sin. He was treated by the Father as a sinner, though without sin.

Ibelieve you have misunderstood the Scripture pertaining to divorce. Also how Jesus Yeshua clarified it when He was questioned about the subject.

 

[PaulThomson]

Ibelieve you have misunderstood the Scripture pertaining to divorce. Also how Jesus Yeshua clarified it when He was questioned about the subject.

You may need to explain why your believe I have misunderstood the scripture pertaining to divorce, if you intended your post to achieve something.