Why have you forsaken me?

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10-22-27

Active member
Dec 17, 2023
454
141
43
#1
The following will likely open a can of worms and lift many eyebrows. But it’s a subject that must be fully understood, not through the eyes of commentators or religious organizations, but by understanding given by the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 27:46, Jesus is hanging from the cross, looking down at a mob of people who hated him. He would utter, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” His last words were in Luke 23:46, “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.”

The word forsaken means to abandon, to turn one’s back on someone, and then walk away.

Here’s the question: was the Lord speaking to his Father or talking to the people standing before him? Before you answer, consider the following.

Is Jesus the Creator, the Almighty? Yes, Revelation 1:8, and John 1:3.

Can God never not be God? No! Why not? Because he is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. And he “upholds all things by the word of His power.”

Did the Father send His Son? Jesus said, “I come to do the will of my Father.”

Did Jesus come to us of His own free will? John 10:15, Jesus said, “I lay down my life for the sheep.” In verse 18, He said, “I have power to lay it (his life) down, and I have power to take it again.”

Was Jesus aware of his pending death? Yes! His death had prophesied in the O.T., and because he is the author and finisher of our faith, he wrote the book.

Did the apostles forsake Him? Yes! Matthew 14:50, “And they all forsook him.”

Did the Jewish people forsake Him? Yes!

Did the Jewish religious leaders forsake Him? Yes!

Did Jesus die for any sin that He had committed? No, he died “a lamb without spot or blemish.”

As the King of Israel, as the High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, he offered himself up as a perfect Lamb without spot of blemish. Last question: Why would the Father reject a perfect sacrifice?

I am aware of the verse in 2 Corinthians 5:21, “For he (Jesus) was made sin for us, who knew no sin:” It should read, “For he was made a sin offering for us who knew no sin” or sacrifice for sin and answers to, the Hebrew word ‘chataah’ which signifies both sin and sin-offering.
Your thoughts.
 
Dec 27, 2018
1,642
164
63
#2
Psalms 22

22 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

2 O my God, I cry in the day time, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,

8 He trusted on the Lord that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.

12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.

13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.

18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

19 But be not thou far from me, O Lord: O my strength, haste thee to help me.

20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.

21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.

22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.

23 Ye that fear the Lord, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.

24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.

26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the Lord that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.

27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

28 For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations.

29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,654
5,908
113
#3
The following will likely open a can of worms and lift many eyebrows. But it’s a subject that must be fully understood, not through the eyes of commentators or religious organizations, but by understanding given by the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 27:46, Jesus is hanging from the cross, looking down at a mob of people who hated him. He would utter, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” His last words were in Luke 23:46, “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.”

The word forsaken means to abandon, to turn one’s back on someone, and then walk away.

Here’s the question: was the Lord speaking to his Father or talking to the people standing before him? Before you answer, consider the following.

Is Jesus the Creator, the Almighty? Yes, Revelation 1:8, and John 1:3.

Can God never not be God? No! Why not? Because he is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. And he “upholds all things by the word of His power.”

Did the Father send His Son? Jesus said, “I come to do the will of my Father.”

Did Jesus come to us of His own free will? John 10:15, Jesus said, “I lay down my life for the sheep.” In verse 18, He said, “I have power to lay it (his life) down, and I have power to take it again.”

Was Jesus aware of his pending death? Yes! His death had prophesied in the O.T., and because he is the author and finisher of our faith, he wrote the book.

Did the apostles forsake Him? Yes! Matthew 14:50, “And they all forsook him.”

Did the Jewish people forsake Him? Yes!

Did the Jewish religious leaders forsake Him? Yes!

Did Jesus die for any sin that He had committed? No, he died “a lamb without spot or blemish.”

As the King of Israel, as the High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, he offered himself up as a perfect Lamb without spot of blemish. Last question: Why would the Father reject a perfect sacrifice?

I am aware of the verse in 2 Corinthians 5:21, “For he (Jesus) was made sin for us, who knew no sin:” It should read, “For he was made a sin offering for us who knew no sin” or sacrifice for sin and answers to, the Hebrew word ‘chataah’ which signifies both sin and sin-offering.
Your thoughts.
Its another fulfillment of prophecy see psalm 22

My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

…All they that see me laugh me to scorn: They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying, He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: Let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

For dogs have compassed me: The assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: They pierced my hands and my feet.

I may tell all my bones: They look and stare upon me. They part my garments among them, And cast lots upon my vesture.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭22:1, 7-8, 16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value; ( zechariah 11:12-13)

And they crucified him,

and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.

And sitting down they watched him there; And they that passed by reviled him, wagging their heads, He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him. He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

….Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:9, 35-36, 39, 42-43, 46, 50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus birth , life baptism ministry betrayal suffering crucifixion resurrection ascention to heaven ect is all written in the ot but it’s out of order and it’s hidden in those prophecy and psalms like in psalm 22

“ my God my God why has thou forsaken me ….is another proof from Matthew to the audience who knew the psalms that Jesus is the son of David the messiah and king of Israel
 
Oct 9, 2021
881
291
63
#4
Mat 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Jesus is God manifest in flesh which the man Christ Jesus is the personal human body of God which He laid down His life for us, and purchased the Church with His own blood.

Jesus is sinless, and is always sinless because He was always led by God.

God will never forsake the man Christ Jesus for He is His own human body, and is always sinless so there is no reason for God to leave Him.

The man Christ Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit, and felt the love, peace, and joy of Spirit throughout His life nothing wavering.

When He was on the cross, and the sins of the world were laid upon Him then He felt how it would feel for someone to be separated from God, but God never forsook Him, and did not turn His back on Him.

It was only how the man Christ Jesus felt but God never turned His back on Him because even though the sins of the world were placed on Him, He still was sinless and in right standing with God which His nature did not change nor could it.

Jesus is always sinless so there is no reason for God to turn His back on Him, but He felt what it was like to be separated from God when He felt the Spirit His whole life but at that time He did not feel the Spirit when the sins of the world were placed on Him, but then said in to thy hands I commend my spirit for He knew God did not abandon Him but it was only how He felt.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
591
113
#5
The forsaking of the Lord Jesus by God The Father was due to the fact:

"thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin." Isaiah 53v10, Matt 27v46 with Psalm 22v1.
 

10-22-27

Active member
Dec 17, 2023
454
141
43
#6
Mat 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour.
Mat 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Mat 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Jesus is God manifest in flesh which the man Christ Jesus is the personal human body of God which He laid down His life for us, and purchased the Church with His own blood.

Jesus is sinless, and is always sinless because He was always led by God.

God will never forsake the man Christ Jesus for He is His own human body, and is always sinless so there is no reason for God to leave Him.

The man Christ Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit, and felt the love, peace, and joy of Spirit throughout His life nothing wavering.

When He was on the cross, and the sins of the world were laid upon Him then He felt how it would feel for someone to be separated from God, but God never forsook Him, and did not turn His back on Him.

It was only how the man Christ Jesus felt but God never turned His back on Him because even though the sins of the world were placed on Him, He still was sinless and in right standing with God which His nature did not change nor could it.

Jesus is always sinless so there is no reason for God to turn His back on Him, but He felt what it was like to be separated from God when He felt the Spirit His whole life but at that time He did not feel the Spirit when the sins of the world were placed on Him, but then said in to thy hands I commend my spirit for He knew God did not abandon Him but it was only how He felt.
Montana, good morning. It appears we agree, Jesus was a perfect sacrifice, died without sin, and that our sins were laid at the foot of the cross.
Matthew 26:28, "For this is my blood of the New Testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."

Hebrews 9:22, "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood, and without shedding of blood is no remission."

So, my question, who was he talking to when he said, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

I say it was the Jews who put him there.
 

10-22-27

Active member
Dec 17, 2023
454
141
43
#7
The forsaking of the Lord Jesus by God The Father was due to the fact:

"thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin." Isaiah 53v10, Matt 27v46 with Psalm 22v1.
I'm only asking a question, so stay cool. Yes, he was a perfect offering, a Lamb without spot or blemish. If you think he was speaking to the Father, why would he "forsake him?" that's my question. Remember, the word 'forsake' means to abandon, you can look it up for yourself, it's #1459 in the Strong's concordance.
 

10-22-27

Active member
Dec 17, 2023
454
141
43
#8
Its another fulfillment of prophecy see psalm 22

My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

…All they that see me laugh me to scorn: They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying, He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: Let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

For dogs have compassed me: The assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: They pierced my hands and my feet.

I may tell all my bones: They look and stare upon me. They part my garments among them, And cast lots upon my vesture.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭22:1, 7-8, 16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value; ( zechariah 11:12-13)

And they crucified him,

and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.

And sitting down they watched him there; And they that passed by reviled him, wagging their heads, He saved others; himself he cannot save. If he be the King of Israel, let him now come down from the cross, and we will believe him. He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.

And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

….Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:9, 35-36, 39, 42-43, 46, 50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus birth , life baptism ministry betrayal suffering crucifixion resurrection ascention to heaven ect is all written in the ot but it’s out of order and it’s hidden in those prophecy and psalms like in psalm 22

“ my God my God why has thou forsaken me ….is another proof from Matthew to the audience who knew the psalms that Jesus is the son of David the messiah and king of Israel
Pilgrim, good morning. So, are you saying he was talking the Jews who put him on the cross, or to the Father?
 

10-22-27

Active member
Dec 17, 2023
454
141
43
#9
Psalms 22

22 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

2 O my God, I cry in the day time, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.

3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.

4 Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.

5 They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.

6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.

7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,

8 He trusted on the Lord that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

10 I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

11 Be not far from me; for trouble is near; for there is none to help.

12 Many bulls have compassed me: strong bulls of Bashan have beset me round.

13 They gaped upon me with their mouths, as a ravening and a roaring lion.

14 I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint: my heart is like wax; it is melted in the midst of my bowels.

15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd; and my tongue cleaveth to my jaws; and thou hast brought me into the dust of death.

16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

17 I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me.

18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

19 But be not thou far from me, O Lord: O my strength, haste thee to help me.

20 Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog.

21 Save me from the lion's mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.

22 I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee.

23 Ye that fear the Lord, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.

24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.

25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him.

26 The meek shall eat and be satisfied: they shall praise the Lord that seek him: your heart shall live for ever.

27 All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the Lord: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.

28 For the kingdom is the Lord's: and he is the governor among the nations.

29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul.

30 A seed shall serve him; it shall be accounted to the Lord for a generation.

31 They shall come, and shall declare his righteousness unto a people that shall be born, that he hath done this
So, your answer then is, he was speaking to (his Father or the people who put him on the cross?) that was the question.
 
Dec 27, 2018
1,642
164
63
#10
So, your answer then is, he was speaking to (his Father or the people who put him on the cross?) that was the question.
It appears that you did not know he was quoting scripture which is what he was doing.That is why I quoted the scripture for you.
To answer your question,
He was letting everyone know that he is the word of God.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#11
The following will likely open a can of worms and lift many eyebrows. But it’s a subject that must be fully understood, not through the eyes of commentators or religious organizations, but by understanding given by the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 27:46, Jesus is hanging from the cross, looking down at a mob of people who hated him. He would utter, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” His last words were in Luke 23:46, “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.”

The word forsaken means to abandon, to turn one’s back on someone, and then walk away.

Here’s the question: was the Lord speaking to his Father or talking to the people standing before him? Before you answer, consider the following.

Is Jesus the Creator, the Almighty? Yes, Revelation 1:8, and John 1:3.

Can God never not be God? No! Why not? Because he is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. And he “upholds all things by the word of His power.”

Did the Father send His Son? Jesus said, “I come to do the will of my Father.”

Did Jesus come to us of His own free will? John 10:15, Jesus said, “I lay down my life for the sheep.” In verse 18, He said, “I have power to lay it (his life) down, and I have power to take it again.”

Was Jesus aware of his pending death? Yes! His death had prophesied in the O.T., and because he is the author and finisher of our faith, he wrote the book.

Did the apostles forsake Him? Yes! Matthew 14:50, “And they all forsook him.”

Did the Jewish people forsake Him? Yes!

Did the Jewish religious leaders forsake Him? Yes!

Did Jesus die for any sin that He had committed? No, he died “a lamb without spot or blemish.”

As the King of Israel, as the High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, he offered himself up as a perfect Lamb without spot of blemish. Last question: Why would the Father reject a perfect sacrifice?

I am aware of the verse in 2 Corinthians 5:21, “For he (Jesus) was made sin for us, who knew no sin:” It should read, “For he was made a sin offering for us who knew no sin” or sacrifice for sin and answers to, the Hebrew word ‘chataah’ which signifies both sin and sin-offering.
Your thoughts.

God turned his back on his only begotten Son during the three hours of darkness on the cross, while Jesus was bearing the sins of those that his Father gave to him, because God has no fellowship with sin. When one of his adopted children here on earth commits a sin, God turns his back on them, and they lose his fellowship until they repent.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,112
4,374
113
#12
The following will likely open a can of worms and lift many eyebrows. But it’s a subject that must be fully understood, not through the eyes of commentators or religious organizations, but by understanding given by the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 27:46, Jesus is hanging from the cross, looking down at a mob of people who hated him. He would utter, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” His last words were in Luke 23:46, “Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit.”

The word forsaken means to abandon, to turn one’s back on someone, and then walk away.

Here’s the question: was the Lord speaking to his Father or talking to the people standing before him? Before you answer, consider the following.

Is Jesus the Creator, the Almighty? Yes, Revelation 1:8, and John 1:3.

Can God never not be God? No! Why not? Because he is the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. And he “upholds all things by the word of His power.”

Did the Father send His Son? Jesus said, “I come to do the will of my Father.”

Did Jesus come to us of His own free will? John 10:15, Jesus said, “I lay down my life for the sheep.” In verse 18, He said, “I have power to lay it (his life) down, and I have power to take it again.”

Was Jesus aware of his pending death? Yes! His death had prophesied in the O.T., and because he is the author and finisher of our faith, he wrote the book.

Did the apostles forsake Him? Yes! Matthew 14:50, “And they all forsook him.”

Did the Jewish people forsake Him? Yes!

Did the Jewish religious leaders forsake Him? Yes!

Did Jesus die for any sin that He had committed? No, he died “a lamb without spot or blemish.”

As the King of Israel, as the High Priest after the order of Melchizedek, he offered himself up as a perfect Lamb without spot of blemish. Last question: Why would the Father reject a perfect sacrifice?

I am aware of the verse in 2 Corinthians 5:21, “For he (Jesus) was made sin for us, who knew no sin:” It should read, “For he was made a sin offering for us who knew no sin” or sacrifice for sin and answers to, the Hebrew word ‘chataah’ which signifies both sin and sin-offering.
Your thoughts.
Psalms 22
 

10-22-27

Active member
Dec 17, 2023
454
141
43
#13
It appears that you did not know he was quoting scripture which is what he was doing.That is why I quoted the scripture for you.
To answer your question,
He was letting everyone know that he is the word of God.
You didn't have to quote Psalms 22 for me, I've been studying it for years. I know Jesus Christ is the Word of God, known that since 1982. My question was, "Was Jesus while hanging on the cross speaking to his Father or to the Jews?

There are only two ways to answer the question, "He was speaking to the Jews," OR, "He was speaking to his Father." It was a simple question, I was curious what people on this forum thought about it, that's all.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
61,137
30,284
113
#14
Everything Jesus said and did was for our benefit.
 

SomeDisciple

Well-known member
Jul 4, 2021
2,376
1,082
113
#15
Many Aramaic-primacists point out that "sabacthanai" doesn't mean "to abandon"; rather, it means "to keep or leave behind for a purpose"- and they read it as a declarative instead of an interrogative. "For this you have kept me".

The same goes for the part where it is translated to Koine in the scripture itself- the Koine doesn't necessarily mean "to forsake/utterly abandon" but can carry the sense of leaving something for a reason.

Prefacing a question to the Jews with "My God" seems odd- as it would seem like using "God" in the exclamatory sense; which I don't think he would do.
 

10-22-27

Active member
Dec 17, 2023
454
141
43
#16
God turned his back on his only begotten Son during the three hours of darkness on the cross, while Jesus was bearing the sins of those that his Father gave to him, because God has no fellowship with sin. When one of his adopted children here on earth commits a sin, God turns his back on them, and they lose his fellowship until they repent.
ForestGreen you wrote, "While Jesus was bearing the sins of those that his Father gave to him."

Now this is just a question:
If what you have stated is correct, then Jesus as a Lamb without spot or blemish, was a lamb with blemish. If that's what you meant, then according to the laws set down in Leviticus, there is no way the Father would ever have accepted a blemished sacrifice, is that not correct?
 

Kroogz

Well-known member
Dec 5, 2023
865
346
63
#17
Here’s the question: was the Lord speaking to his Father or talking to the people standing before him? Before you answer, consider the following.
He was speaking to the Father. As horrible as the physical aspect was, He never cried out. But when The Father forsook Him, He screamed out. And It's the only time He called His Father(Abba/daddy)......God. This is what paid the price for the sins of the whole world. His substitutionary spiritual death......separated from the Father on the cross. His substitutionary spiritual death procured believers spiritual salvation. His physical death procured our resurrection bodies.

The spiritual was finished when He said," It is finished." And He guaranteed believers spiritual birth. When He physically died and gave up His spirit, He guaranteed our physical resurrection.
 

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#18
ForestGreen you wrote, "While Jesus was bearing the sins of those that his Father gave to him."

Now this is just a question:
If what you have stated is correct, then Jesus as a Lamb without spot or blemish, was a lamb with blemish. If that's what you meant, then according to the laws set down in Leviticus, there is no way the Father would ever have accepted a blemished sacrifice, is that not correct?
1 Pet 2:24 - Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,747
6,913
113
#19
So, my question, who was he talking to when he said, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

I say it was the Jews who put him there.
Scripture says he who knew no sin, became sin.... yeay, I'll go with Scripture. God can not look at sin. As Jesus took upon HIMSELF all the sins of the world, and "became sin," for that brief time between Jesus speaking and His death, God turned His face from Christ.

Stick with Scripture and you will do well,
 

10-22-27

Active member
Dec 17, 2023
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#20
1 Pet 2:24 - Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree
Agree, but the word bare #399 Strongs does not mean what you think it means. What it means is, to offer up, or to place upon the altar. Same word used in,
Hebrews 7:27, "as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice,"

Hebrews 13:15, "Let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually,"

Leviticus 14:19, "The priest shall offer the sin offering,"

So, 1 Peter 2:24 would be understood as follows, "Who his own self (offered up) our sins in his own body on the tree."