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Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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I will agree with the one hour that that the ten kings rule with the beast is symbolic, to represent 42 months..
But do you see my point ? If one timelines isn’t literal and none of the imagery is literal if the other numbers like this aren’t literal

“And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭5:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We know the lamb of God is Jesus and the seven eyes and horns are coming from the Old Testament language and visions of the stone with seven eyes and lamb of atonement and Passover ect why would only one or two specific time Periods be the only literal thing in the book ? Why would it be designed as an apocalypse yet there would out of no where be a couple random literal measures of time ?
 
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I will agree with the one hour that that the ten kings rule with the beast is symbolic, to represent 42 months..
If the beast from the abyss and the ten horns reigned 42 months then it would say 42 months.The beast from the abyss only reigns 3.5 days.From.the time it's able to kill the two horns of the beast to the time Christ comes.

The beast which ascends out of the abyss is not the beast that rises from the sea.
 
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It does not say Jesus has returned in Revelation 11.
Who do you believe raises the dead?
Your fairy God mother?

Christ is right there receiving his kingdom at the time of the seventh Trump.He has come at that point.


15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.


This verse says Christ reigns but you say the beast reigns at the sound of the seventh Trump.
 

Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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Not from that verse alone. First, it has to be understood that the woman in Revelation 12 is Israel.

Salvation by believing in Christ has been mostly by the gentiles over the course of the past 2000 years.

Since Revelation 12 is about what Israel goes through, for the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9, the embracing of the gospel of Salvation by believing in Jesus in verse 12 is about Israel, the Jews, finally turning to Jesus, in the middle part of the 7 years.
“Not from that verse alone. First, it has to be understood that the woman in Revelation 12 is Israel.”

yes of course it’s a vision of Joseph’s dream of Israel having the sun moon and twelve stars.

“Salvation by believing in Christ has been mostly by the gentiles over the course of the past 2000 years.”

well I’m not sure about that I think probably but also lots of jews have converted through time

“Since Revelation 12 is about what Israel goes through, for the 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9, the embracing of the gospel of Salvation by believing in Jesus in verse 12 is about Israel, the Jews, finally turning to Jesus, in the middle part of the 7 years”

This part is where you’ve lost me

what is this narrative talking about it should be evident since you know who the woman is ?

“and she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭12:2, 5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

who is the son who is born tonisrsel she was expecting and taken up to Gods throne and when did that happen ?
 

douggg

Active member
Oct 2, 2021
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But do you see my point ? If one timelines isn’t literal and none of the imagery is literal if the other numbers like this aren’t literal
I don't disagree with the one hour not being literal. But the other times frames coincide with verses from the Tanach.

The 7 year 70th week of Daniel 9:27.

The time, times, half time of Daniel 7:25, Daniel 12:7.

We know the lamb of God is Jesus and the seven eyes and horns are coming from the Old Testament language and visions of the stone with seven eyes and lamb of atonement and Passover ect why would only one or two specific time Periods be the only literal thing in the book ? Why would it be designed as an apocalypse yet there would out of no where be a couple random literal measures of time ?
I would not say the specific time frames are the only literal things in Revelation. Do we live in a literal world or a symbolic world? The events in Revelation take place in a literal world.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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….Deliverance of Israel the nation ? Are they going to repent and accept the gospel ?
Yes, at the very end. We first see this in Chapter 12...

Rev 12:
14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

"His People" are yet again mentioned in Chapter 18...
Revelation 18:4
“And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.”

It is shortly after this that Jesus returns with His Church Bride to deliver them. They will behold Him whom their fathers crucified, scars and all. Denial will be impossible.

This flight into the mountains (Petra) is also mentioned elsewhere in Scripture.


Matthew 24:20 Context
17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
 

douggg

Active member
Oct 2, 2021
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Who do you believe raises the dead?
Your fairy God mother?
Are you talking about Revelation 11:18 ?

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Those things take place during the time, times, half time that Satan will have left. And following Jesus's return - which does not happen until the end of the third woe.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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Yes, at the very end. We first see this in Chapter 12...

Rev 12:
14And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

"His People" are yet again mentioned in Chapter 18...
Revelation 18:4
“And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.”

It is shortly after this that Jesus returns with His Church Bride to deliver them. They will behold Him whom their fathers crucified, scars and all. Denial will be impossible.

This flight into the mountains (Petra) is also mentioned elsewhere in Scripture.


Matthew 24:20 Context
17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: 18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. 19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! 20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. 23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
Do you see this part dear wise brother oyster ?

“And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:16-17‬ ‭

would you agree this is talking about Old Testament prophecy bieng fulfilled ?
if so is there any prophecies in the Old Testament that says this will happen to israel who the prophecies label a great abominable whore ? Is that what’s being fulfilled there ?
 
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Are you talking about Revelation 11:18 ?

18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Those things take place during the time, times, half time that Satan will have left. And following Jesus's return - which does not happen until the end of the third woe.

I'm talking about the two witnesses who are resurected on resurrection day along with all the dead in revelation 11:18 who are resurected on resurrection day.
The dead in Israel are raised on the same day.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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Do you see this part dear wise brother oyster ?

“And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:16-17‬ ‭

would you agree this is talking about Old Testament prophecy bieng fulfilled ?
if so is there any prophecies in the Old Testament that says this will happen to israel who the prophecies label a great abominable whore ? Is that what’s being fulfilled there ?
Not all that is Israel shall be part of the remnant which shall be delivered.
Romans 9:6
“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:”
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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I'm talking about the two witnesses who are resurected on resurrection day along with all the dead in revelation 11:18 who are resurected on resurrection day.
The dead in Israel are raised on the same day.
“Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭37:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬



and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
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Do you see this part dear wise brother oyster ?

“And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:16-17‬ ‭

would you agree this is talking about Old Testament prophecy bieng fulfilled ?
if so is there any prophecies in the Old Testament that says this will happen to israel who the prophecies label a great abominable whore ? Is that what’s being fulfilled there ?
Deuteronomy 28
25 The Lord shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth.

26 And thy carcase shall be meat unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and no man shall fray them away.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
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Do you see this part dear wise brother oyster ?

“And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire. For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭17:16-17‬ ‭
Surely you do not think that the ten horns are the twelve tribes?????? :confused::unsure::(

More than just Israel shall be left behind.
 
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“Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭37:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬



and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭27:52-53‬ ‭KJV‬‬
You understand Doug is saying the two witnesses are raised from the dead and then the rest of the dead in Israel in revelation 11:18 is raised 42 months later?
That is what we are discussing or are you saying the coming of Christ and the resurection took place 2000 years ago?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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Not all that is Israel shall be part of the remnant which shall be delivered.
Romans 9:6
“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:”
So this isn’t in the Bible ( it’s one of several ) and isn’t going to be fulfilled ?

“Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations,….. Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord GOD, and thou becamest mine. Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil. I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck. And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head. Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom. And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD. ( the woman in revelation 12 whom is gloriously attired and dressed )


( becomes the whore in revelation 17 )

“But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was. And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so. Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them, and tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them. Moreover thou hast taken thy sons and thy daughters, whom thou hast borne unto me, and these hast thou sacrificed unto them to be devoured. Is this of thy whoredoms a small matter, that thou hast slain my children, and delivered them to cause them to pass through the fire for them? And in all thine abominations and thy whoredoms thou hast not remembered the days of thy youth, when thou wast naked and bare, and wast polluted in thy blood. Thou hast played the whore also with the Assyrians, because thou wast unsatiable; yea, thou hast played the harlot with them, and yet couldest not be satisfied. Thou hast moreover multiplied thy fornication in the land of Canaan unto Chaldea; and yet thou wast not satisfied herewith. How weak is thine heart, saith the Lord GOD, seeing thou doest all these things, the work of an imperious whorish woman; in that thou buildest thine eminent place in the head of every way, and makest thine high place in every street; and hast not been as an harlot, in that thou scornest hire; but as a wife that committeth adultery, which taketh strangers instead of her husband! They give gifts to all whores: but thou givest thy gifts to all thy lovers, and hirest them, that they may come unto thee on every side for thy whoredom. And the contrary is in thee from other women in thy whoredoms, whereas none followeth thee to commit whoredoms: and in that thou givest a reward, and no reward is given unto thee, therefore thou art contrary.”
‭‭

and her future is judged

“Wherefore, O harlot, hear the word of the LORD: Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thy filthiness was poured out, and thy nakedness discovered through thy whoredoms with thy lovers, and with all the idols of thy abominations, and by the blood of thy children, which thou didst give unto them; behold, therefore I will gather all thy lovers, with whom thou hast taken pleasure, and all them that thou hast loved, with all them that thou hast hated; I will even gather them round about against thee, and will discover thy nakedness unto them, that they may see all thy nakedness. And I will judge thee, as women that break wedlock and shed blood are judged; and I will give thee blood in fury and jealousy. And I will also give thee into their hand, and they shall throw down thine eminent place, and shall break down thy high places: they shall strip thee also of thy clothes, and shall take thy fair jewels, and leave thee naked and bare. They shall also bring up a company against thee, and they shall stone thee with stones, and thrust thee through with their swords. And they shall burn thine houses with fire, and execute judgments upon thee in the sight of many women: and I will cause thee to cease from playing the harlot, and thou also shalt give no hire any more.”

‭Ezekiel‬ ‭16‭KJV‬‬

This doesn’t exist in several other prophecies also the same theme of God blessing and cleansing and taking israel as his own , isreal treating him like a whorish wife would . who is burning with constant lust and adultery for other gods and who sleeps with all comers every time he turns away ? The Old Testament doesn’t repeatedly say the same thing about Jerusalem ? And those things aren’t fulfilled or going to be ?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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Surely you do not think that the ten horns are the twelve tribes?????? :confused::unsure::(

More than just Israel shall be left behind.
No lol I think the ten horns are those who prophecy says they are the nations around Israel who they committed adultery with and worshipped thier gods back when zgod said because of that he would make them desolate and turn those nations against them because they had become an abominable whore like the prophecy I just shared with you there are many
 
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Shur am. Sure did. We are now awaiting the 2nd Coming.
We were discussing the second coming when the two dead witnesses are raised.Doug was saying Christ doesn't come then.We were discussing the topic.