The truth about Muhammad "Feedback appreciated"

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I agree and i don't know who Joslin McDowell was (i had to look him up) but the general consensus of the historians say that the crucifixion DID happen.
This is basic history 101.

I hate loaning things, I never get them back. I gave my BIL the Mc Dowell book "Evidence that Demands a Verdict". Some people don't get apologetics or think it's of no use. But I think other than CS Lewis's books, every Christian should read "Evidence". I often challenge unbelievers to read it.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Rose,

Moses gave you the answer. Also, just because we disagree on one thing it doesn't mean we can't discuss things further.
In your case however i don't think either of us will learn anything if we were to discuss David.
I've said a lot in the past regarding David and i don't want to mix it in this thread but i gave an example of the mindset.
So i am not taking David away from you, but i am limiting the influence of David in my life because he doesn't bring my any sort of happiness or joy.
I respect him because he is part of God's plan, just like i respect the saints, the apostilles or Jesus' mother.

No, I don't want to derail the thread either. I just think that's an odd take on David, someone already has mentioned he was a man after God's own heart. I don't know how that can't bring you spiritual edification. Start a thread in the BDF perhaps?

 

[Magenta]

I hate loaning things, I never get them back. I gave my BIL the Mc Dowell book "Evidence that Demands a Verdict". Some people don't get apologetics or think it's of no use. But I think other than CS Lewis's books, every Christian should read "Evidence". I often challenge unbelievers to read it.

Lee Strobel's The Case For Christ (<= link to book review) [The Case For Christ {<= link to movie}] is a pretty great read, also .

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Lee Strobel's The Case For Christ (<= link to book review) [The Case For Christ {<= link to movie}] is a pretty great read, also .

Yes! I have several of his books and went to see the movie. I think his books were very well written. I really should dig them out and read them again.

 

[Cameron143]

No, I don't want to derail the thread either. I just think that's an odd take on David, someone already has mentioned he was a man after God's own heart. I don't know how that can't bring you spiritual edification. Start a thread in the BDF perhaps?

David being a man after God's own heart does not mean as you suppose. It doesn't mean that David was full of characteristics of God. While he did have some of those, he was, in most ways, no better than anyone else in his time. In fact, in many ways, he was far worse.
So what is meant when God says David is a man after God's own heart? Saul was the king the people chose. They looked upon the outside and Saul was indeed an impressive physical specimen. But God, when He chooses, picks those who are weak and unimpressive, and even despised in order that what He performs will be ascribed to Him. Thus, the phrase...after God's own heart...simply means one who is God's choice or after the manner in which God chooses.

 

[Magenta]

David being a man after God's own heart does not mean as you suppose. It doesn't mean that David was full of characteristics of God. While he did have some of those, he was, in most ways, no better than anyone else in his time. In fact, in many ways, he was far worse.
So what is meant when God says David is a man after God's own heart? Saul was the king the people chose. They looked upon the outside and Saul was indeed an impressive physical specimen. But God, when He chooses, picks those who are weak and unimpressive, and even despised in order that what He performs will be ascribed to Him. Thus, the phrase...after God's own heart...simply means one who is God's choice or after the manner in which God chooses.

Good morning, Cameron .. I take that phrase to mean also that he fairly steadfastly
sought God's will in His life. Surely we see this in the Psalms, and his refusal to take
Saul's life knowing Saul would have killed him in an instant under similar circumstances.

@Eli1 don't you think someone who was solely or largely militaristically minded would have?

 

[Cameron143]

Good morning, Cameron .. I take that phrase to mean also that he fairly steadfastly
sought God's will in His life. Surely we see this in the Psalms, and his refusal to take
Saul's life knowing Saul would have killed him in an instant under similar circumstances.

That's how many people see it. But what is being compared is the choice of Saul and the choice of David. Saul is a choice of the people...a man after the people's hearts. That is, his choice satisfies their hearts. David is a man after God's heart, because it reflects His desires in choosing.
While David often sought out God's will, it wasn't always so. The Psalms reveal a lot about David, this is true. One of the revelations is that he was like most of us: weak, frail, and prone to wander.

 

[Magenta]

That's how many people see it. But what is being compared is the choice of Saul and the choice of David.
Saul is a choice of the people...a man after the people's hearts. That is, his choice satisfies their hearts.
David is a man after God's heart, because it reflects His desires in choosing.
While David often sought out God's will, it wasn't always so. The Psalms reveal a lot about David, this
is true. One of the revelations is that he was like most of us: weak, frail, and prone to wander.

Thank you for that added insight, Cameron .. I did say, "also," and Scripture bears this out as well:

Acts 13:22 After removing Saul, He raised up David as their king and testified about him: 'I have
found David son of Jesse a man after My own heart; he will carry out My will in its entirety.'

“You have acted foolishly,” Samuel declared. “You have not kept the command that the LORD your God
gave you; if you had, the LORD would have established your kingdom over Israel for all time. But now
your kingdom will not endure; the LORD has sought a man after His own heart and appointed him
ruler over His people, because you have not kept the command of the LORD.” 1 Samuel 13:13-14

1 Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is like the sin of divination, and arrogance is like the wickedness
of idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He has rejected you as king."

1 Samuel 15:26 "I will not return with you," Samuel replied. "For you have
rejected the word of the LORD, and He has rejected you as king over Israel."

1 Samuel 15:28 So Samuel said to him, "The LORD has torn the kingdom of Israel
from you today and has given it to your neighbor who is better than you.

 

[Cameron143]

Thank you for that added insight, Cameron .. I did say, "also," and Scripture bears this out as well:

Acts 13:22 After removing Saul, He raised up David as their king and testified about him: 'I have
found David son of Jesse a man after My own heart; he will carry out My will in its entirety.'

“You have acted foolishly,” Samuel declared. “You have not kept the command that the LORD your God
gave you; if you had, the LORD would have established your kingdom over Israel for all time. But now
your kingdom will not endure; the LORD has sought a man after His own heart and appointed him
ruler over His people, because you have not kept the command of the LORD.” 1 Samuel 13:13-14

1 Samuel 15:23 For rebellion is like the sin of divination, and arrogance is like the wickedness
of idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He has rejected you as king."

1 Samuel 15:26 "I will not return with you," Samuel replied. "For you have
rejected the word of the LORD, and He has rejected you as king over Israel."

1 Samuel 15:28 So Samuel said to him, "The LORD has torn the kingdom of Israel
from you today and has given it to your neighbor who is better than you.

Your additions are always welcome and helpful.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

No I don't have to know it or read it to know it's false doctrine, same the JWs and Mormons. They try the same tactics. No, I don't need to know or read your "holy book" to know it's false doctrine, it's a lie from hell. That's the end of the convo.

well it's not my holy book first of. I have never spoke to Muslims about religion or talked about it before.

You know you've all been talking about Islam but you don't want to talk about it.

Seem a bit strange really.

How can you trust what is really being said about Islam, when number 1 the people who hate them most has just been charged with genocide.

Secondly a pastor here in cc said Muhammed was illiterate, so this could be why the Muslims question all his teachings.

They really can't agree on what's written in there Quran, and it could mean this or that in there Quran, they have long debates just like Christians do over Jesus.
They have long debates about all the topics Christians do.

As well Rosie I've only just started to learn about Muslims and the Qur'an.

But you know Jesus loved the lying Jews and said forgive them they know not what they do.

Could that not be said if an illiterate Muhammed.

In one section of the Qur'an it says Jesus was the Messiah.

So what changed in him to say the lies he spoke else where in the Qur'an did he write them, it seems strange to me.

Well I don't know really.

Was he also this monster people say he is
Baring in mind the Jews have killed 15000 children and just been charged with genocide. The Jews hate them the most.

The USA and UK are set to be charged with genocide to soon.

And there always accusing Islam if starting religious wars, but yet the Qur'an today teaches there terrified of sinning.


As well I've just seen a teaching that the Muslims call adultery evil too.

It just all seems a bit strange the way your all so quick to condemn what you don't want to research.

I mean you've all researched the Jewish bible and forgiven the Jews for the worst sins ever and you protect them.

But you can't do that with Arabs who claim Jesus is the Messiah.

I think you all need to look at this situation differently these days I really do.

God could convert all the Muslims to be Christian, he really could.

Ye have to have faith.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

No, I don't want to derail the thread either. I just think that's an odd take on David, someone already has mentioned he was a man after God's own heart. I don't know how that can't bring you spiritual edification. Start a thread in the BDF perhaps?

I found out that the Muslims are like Christians in some regards

Like they believe an elect Muslim can't be deceived.

They also believe David was an elect so therefore he could not have commited adultery they say. 🤔

But obviously they don't truly believe it they just debate it.

I guess in a sense its no different to Christians who debate they are the elect 😁

 

[Gideon300]

well it's not my holy book first of. I have never spoke to Muslims about religion or talked about it before.

You know you've all been talking about Islam but you don't want to talk about it.

Seem a bit strange really.

How can you trust what is really being said about Islam, when number 1 the people who hate them most has just been charged with genocide.

Secondly a pastor here in cc said Muhammed was illiterate, so this could be why the Muslims question all his teachings.

They really can't agree on what's written in there Quran, and it could mean this or that in there Quran, they have long debates just like Christians do over Jesus.
They have long debates about all the topics Christians do.

As well Rosie I've only just started to learn about Muslims and the Qur'an.

But you know Jesus loved the lying Jews and said forgive them they know not what they do.

Could that not be said if an illiterate Muhammed.

In one section of the Qur'an it says Jesus was the Messiah.

So what changed in him to say the lies he spoke else where in the Qur'an did he write them, it seems strange to me.

Well I don't know really.

Was he also this monster people say he is
Baring in mind the Jews have killed 15000 children and just been charged with genocide. The Jews hate them the most.

The USA and UK are set to be charged with genocide to soon.

And there always accusing Islam if starting religious wars, but yet the Qur'an today teaches there terrified of sinning.


As well I've just seen a teaching that the Muslims call adultery evil too.

It just all seems a bit strange the way your all so quick to condemn what you don't want to research.

I mean you've all researched the Jewish bible and forgiven the Jews for the worst sins ever and you protect them.

But you can't do that with Arabs who claim Jesus is the Messiah.

I think you all need to look at this situation differently these days I really do.

God could convert all the Muslims to be Christian, he really could.

Ye have to have faith.

Quite a lot of Muslims have been converted in Gaza since the war. Christians have been helping the suffering. Since turning away from Islam is a death sentence in many Muslim nations, and mandated by the Qur'an, that shows that these former Muslims are for real. God gave man free will and He will not violate that freedom. No one will be saved unless they want to be saved.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

well it's not my holy book first of. I have never spoke to Muslims about religion or talked about it before.

You know you've all been talking about Islam but you don't want to talk about it.

Seem a bit strange really.

It's a false doctrine, what more is there to talk about?

How can you trust what is really being said about Islam, when number 1 the people who hate them most has just been charged with genocide.

So you think no one knows about Islam? There's no information to be found? I have missionary friends that have lived in Muslim countries. All kinds of ways to find out what Islam is about.

Secondly a pastor here in cc said Muhammed was illiterate, so this could be why the Muslims question all his teachings.

Either way he started a false religion.

They really can't agree on what's written in there Quran, and it could mean this or that in there Quran, they have long debates just like Christians do over Jesus.
They have long debates about all the topics Christians do.

Maybe, but it's still a false doctrine.

As well Rosie I've only just started to learn about Muslims and the Qur'an.

But you know Jesus loved the lying Jews and said forgive them they know not what they do.

Could that not be said if an illiterate Muhammed.

Yes it could, if he repented of his sins and changed his beliefs. He didn't. The same with some of the Jews, some will believe some won't.

In one section of the Qur'an it says Jesus was the Messiah.

So what changed in him to say the lies he spoke else where in the Qur'an did he write them, it seems strange to me.

Well I don't know really.

Was he also this monster people say he is
Baring in mind the Jews have killed 15000 children and just been charged with genocide. The Jews hate them the most.

If the Jews have done wrong, God will deal with them. That has nothing to do with Muhammed who murdered people in cold blood. Each one answers for their own sin.

The USA and UK are set to be charged with genocide to soon.

And there always accusing Islam if starting religious wars, but yet the Qur'an today teaches there terrified of sinning.

They don't consider religious wars sinning.

As well I've just seen a teaching that the Muslims call adultery evil too.

As they should.

It just all seems a bit strange the way your all so quick to condemn what you don't want to research.

I mean you've all researched the Jewish bible and forgiven the Jews for the worst sins ever and you protect them.

But you can't do that with Arabs who claim Jesus is the Messiah.

What makes you think no one has researched it? They don't claim Jesus is the Messiah. What worst sins ever are you talking about?

I think you all need to look at this situation differently these days I really do.

God could convert all the Muslims to be Christian, he really could.

Ye have to have faith.

He could convert the world, but that's up to us. His plan is that we choose Him.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

I found out that the Muslims are like Christians in some regards

Like they believe an elect Muslim can't be deceived.

They also believe David was an elect so therefore he could not have commited adultery they say. 🤔

But obviously they don't truly believe it they just debate it.

I guess in a sense its no different to Christians who debate they are the elect 😁

If you are talking about OSAS that is also false doctrine. Yes, people argue about it but God did not create a people for hell. No where in the Bible is that taught.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

It's a false doctrine, what more is there to talk about?




So you think no one knows about Islam? There's no information to be found? I have missionary friends that have lived in Muslim countries. All kinds of ways to find out what Islam is about.




Either way he started a false religion.



Maybe, but it's still a false doctrine.




Yes it could, if he repented of his sins and changed his beliefs. He didn't. The same with some of the Jews, some will believe some won't.





If the Jews have done wrong, God will deal with them. That has nothing to do with Muhammed who murdered people in cold blood. Each one answers for their own sin.





They don't consider religious wars sinning.




As they should.




What makes you think no one has researched it? They don't claim Jesus is the Messiah. What worst sins ever are you talking about?





He could convert the world, but that's up to us. His plan is that we choose Him.

again I dont know about Muhammed murdering people in cold blood but i do know about the new Jewish prophet netanyahu who claims the Palestine people are the amalek and God has approved this holy war.

That's right netanyahu is claiming to be a prophet now.

Now as for Muhammed murdering people in cold blood, I will seek what other have to say about that but I will try not to be bias.

But obviously at this stage I would say it's difficult to not come across as bias. To those who just want to hear one side of the coin

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

again I dont know about Muhammed murdering people in cold blood

That's ok, history knows. The rest of us know. You can catch up.

Now as for Muhammed murdering people in cold blood, I will seek what other have to say about that but I will try not to be bias.

It doesn't matter what conclusion you come to. We know about Muhammed and what he did and didn't do. The same with any other military leader in history. We know who he was, Muslims know who he was. The world knows who he was. No one has claimed he was a peaceful leader. Not even the Muslims.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

That's ok, history knows. The rest of us know. You can catch up.




It doesn't matter what conclusion you come to. We know about Muhammed and what he did and didn't do. The same with any other military leader in history. We know who he was, Muslims know who he was. The world knows who he was. No one has claimed he was a peaceful leader. Not even the Muslims.

who's we and how can you possibly know the we is correct. When netanyahu claims to be a prophet too 😁

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

who's we and how can you possibly know the we is correct.

The Holocaust, how do we know about it? How do we know about any event or person in history? Because people were there. There are eyewitnesses. There is evidence in what people have written. We, the world, knows who Muhammed was. As I said, even Muslims wouldn't deny he was a military leader.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

The Holocaust, how do we know about it? How do we know about any event or person in history? Because people were there. There are eyewitnesses. There is evidence in what people have written. We, the world, knows who Muhammed was. As I said, even Muslims wouldn't deny he was a military leader.

I thought Adolf Hitler was responsible for the holocaust

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

The Holocaust, how do we know about it? How do we know about any event or person in history? Because people were there. There are eyewitnesses. There is evidence in what people have written. We, the world, knows who Muhammed was. As I said, even Muslims wouldn't deny he was a military leader.

this is what the Arabs say about the immoral brother