TEMPLE......TO BE OR NOT TO BE....THAT IS MY QUESTION!!!!!

[turbosixx]

I have read several of the comments here saying that there not going to be another physical temple - which most of those posts are citing the metaphoric temple made up of Christians.

It appears to me that those making such comments are not that knowledgeable when it comes to eschatology.

There has to be another temple built in order for the Antichrist to stop the daily sacrifices. The daily sacrifices can only be done when there is a temple standing.

What daily sacrifices? 11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

^ @Thunderrr-mental , No, we are not in "the great tribulation," as the "abomination [singular] of desolation [singular]" that both Jesus and Daniel in Dan12:11 spoke of, HAS NOT YET TAKEN PLACE (it WILL take place, commencing about 3.5 yrs [and lasting only that long] before Daniel and all OT saints are resurrected ['to stand again'--on the earth], which in no way took place in or around the 70ad events.)


The "ARRIVAL" of the man of sin takes place at the same time the ARRIVAL of "the Day of the Lord" does, i.e. at SEAL #1 (the INITIAL "birth PANG [singular]" [1Th5:1-3] of MANY MORE birth pangs that will follow on from that INITIAL one);
"The Day of the Lord" INCLUDES all three of the following:

--the 7-yr Tribulation period unfolding upon the earth (the "IN THE NIGHT" aspect);

--Christ's Second Coming to the earth Rev19 (the "SUN of righteousness ARISE" aspect); AND

--His 1000-yr reign on / over the earth (the "reign... GLORIOUSLY" aspect);

ALL THREE.

The DOTL does not COMMENCE until Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" (Isa3:13; Rev5:6), which has not yet taken place; and we can know this because of Rev5:4's "WAS FOUND" wording (like is used in the latter chpts of Acts when Paul was brought before their human/earthly "bema") which words in Rev5:4 are indicating that a "searching judgment" has already been concluded at that point--(hence the "stephanous/crowns" etc--Paul said he would be awarded "IN THAT DAY")--prior to Jesus' opening the FIRST SEAL (the FIRST SEAL corresponding with Jesus' words in Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 "G5100 - tis - 'A CERTAIN ONE' ('a certain one' BRINGING DECEPTION]"--"bow" often meaning "deception")... and Rev1:1/1:19c/4:1 informing that the "future" aspects of the Book of Rev are "['SHOW'...] ... things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [noun]," NOT things which would transpire over the course of some near-2000 years, as the Historcists have it.)


So, yes, I believe the man of sin / antichrist will be an actual human... and exist in his role during a very specific, future, LIMITED time-period, which has not yet come in to play.

I was going to address some of this AND MORE in the other thread you created, but I got busy with travel and got sidetracked away from posting there. = )

well Daniel 12 speaks about those who have fallen asleep in the lord will rise and receive there inheritance

But since Daniel 12 many saints have risen.

It's in black and white.

And suddenly the tombs where open and Jesus resurrected the saints

Saints is translated as those who fell asleep in the lord ☺️

Whilst you've done a study to suit other verses in Daniel 12

Have you done a study of this verse in Dan 12

And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

@TheDivineWatermark ☺️

Have you ever wondered if Daniel was a saint 🤔

 

[cv5]

Right.

And even Irenaeus wrote of same, "way back"... but wrote this well-after the events of 70ad:

[quoting Irenaeus]

"[...] a king of a most fierce countenance shall arise, one understanding [dark] questions, and exceedingly powerful, full of wonders; and he shall corrupt, direct, influence (faciet), and put strong men down, the holy people likewise; and his yoke shall be directed as a wreath [round their neck]; deceit shall be in his hand, and he shall be lifted up in his heart: he shall also ruin many by deceit, and lead many to perdition, bruising them in his hand like eggs. Daniel 8:23, etc. And then he points out the time that his tyranny shall last, during which the saints shall be put to flight, they who offer a pure sacrifice unto God: And in the midst of the week, he says, the sacrifice and the libation shall be taken away, and the abomination of desolation [shall be brought] into the temple: even unto the consummation of the time shall the desolation be complete. Daniel 9:27 Now three years and six months constitute the half-week."

--Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5.25.4 - https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103525.htm


[end quoting Irenaeus; bold and underline mine]


Notice:

--"during which the saints SHALL BE PUT TO FLIGHT,..." speaks of where it says, "Then let them WHICH BE IN JUDAEA *FLEE* to the mountains" (Matt24:16, per v.15; ALSO in Rev12:6,14 "FLED" and "FLY"), and verse "20 But pray ye that your FLIGHT be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 FOR THEN shall be GREAT tribulation..."
Notice that the passage is not saying ANY OTHER SAINTS LOCATED ELSEWHERE on the earth are to do so, only "THEY WHICH BE IN JUDAEA" at the time-slot being spoken of. (Recall that the Matthew section is referring to what takes place FOLLOWING "the beginning of birth pangs"; whereas the Luke 21 section [covering the 70ad events, vv.12-24a,b] speaks of THAT "flee" as taking place BEFORE ALL "the beginning of birth pangs"--They are completely distinct, occurring at wholly distinct time-periods: one in 70ad events, the other far-future.)



Now, why would Irenaeus (well after 70ad) be writing about "the temple" (located on the earth) and saints being "put to flight" as a yet-future event, if 70ad was supposed to have been "it"... ?

Many do not realize that the counterfeit Satan-man (as opposed to the God-man Jesus Christ) INVARIABLY "shows up right on time" so to speak. At EVERY critical time and pivotal juncture in close proximity to God. Satan is ALWAYS attempting (in vain) to thwart God's plan of salvation by any and every way and means.

Many do not realize that this was likewise Judas' (the Satan-man) ploy. Satan miscalculated and in a last-ditch effort attempted to PREVENT the crucifixion, telling the Pharisees that Jesus was innocent. And after that, Judas tried to make himself appear as Christ Himself (that is where the throwing of the 30 pieces of silver and hanging himself comes into play!!!!)

Likewise, the Satan-man WILL CERTAINLY arise to ONCE AGAIN (in close proximity to the time of the SC, knowing he has a short time left now that the rapture has occurred) attempting to deceive the world by counterfeiting himself as the Messiah. And as the Bible clearly describes, the Satan-man WILL PROCLAIM HIMSELF to be God IN THE TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM.
Consequently people will be FORCED to make a CHOICE. And they do!

2Th 2:3
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
2Th 2:4
who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

 

[douggg]

Sir know exactly what eschatology means.

As you can see it's theology, so sir it's a spiritual battle not a building battle.


Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

noun

1. the part of theology concerned with death, judgement, and the final destiny of the soul and of humankind.
   "Christian hope is concerned with eschatology, or the science of last things

You have given me a definition of eschatology, something I have been pursuing for over 50 years (I am 75).

How is the Antichrist going to stop the daily sacrifice without a temple being built ?

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

With the lord all things are possible

 

[douggg]

What daily sacrifices? 11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God,

The daily sacrifice which the Jews (Judaism) will be doing. They have not accepted the gospel salvation.

 

[douggg]

Many do not realize that the counterfeit Satan-man (as opposed to the God-man Jesus Christ) INVARIABLY "shows up right on time" so to speak. At EVERY critical time and pivotal juncture in close proximity to God. Satan is ALWAYS attempting (in vain) to thwart God's plan of salvation by any and every way and means.

Many do not realize that this was likewise Judas' (the Satan-man) ploy. Satan miscalculated and in a last-ditch effort attempted to PREVENT the crucifixion, telling the Pharisees that Jesus was innocent. And after that, Judas tried to make himself appear as Christ Himself (that is where the throwing of the 30 pieces of silver and hanging himself comes into play!!!!)

I don't think Satan attempted to stop the crucifixion, because the gospel of salvation was kept a mystery "from understanding" until after the resurrection.

In Luke 18, Jesus told the disciples what was going to happen. And although they heard his words, they did not understand the big picture. Read verses 31-34, and take note of verse 34.

31 Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32 For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33 And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
34 And they understood none of these things: and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.

Now in Luke 24. When Jesus appears to them after the Resurrection, he reminds them of what he had told them earlier, but they did not understand, because it was hidden from them. But Jesus in verse 45 opens their understanding.

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

Next, lets go to 1Corinthians2:7-8, to see that Satan also did not understand, thinking he was thwarting God's plan regarding the Kingdom of God by having the king killed.

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

The princes of this world is reference to Satan and his angels.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

You have given me a definition of eschatology, something I have been pursuing for over 50 years (I am 75).

How is the Antichrist going to stop the daily sacrifice without a temple being built ?

well no matter how old people are makes no difference to me, if your lead by the lord you will have wisdom that's older than anything on living earth

I always take my time to answer anyone ☺️

So then have you ever considered.


Can sacrifice be spiritual too 🤔

 

[cv5]

I don't think Satan attempted to stop the crucifixion, because the gospel of salvation was kept a mystery "from understanding" until after the resurrection.
.

Satan was outmatched and outmaneuvered. He always will be, as God is outside of time and omniscient, knowing the end from the beginning. He really did not "figure out" Who Jesus was......until it was too late. And even then, Satan still does not fully understand the reality of salvation due to his fallen wicked nature.

The truly evil never do see God for Who He really is, his goodness, his holiness, His light, His life.

But it is also true that all of this business of throwing the "blood money" aka silver to the potter and the hanging is no accident.
It was....AGAIN.....a calculated deception by Satan (via his vessel the Satan-man Judas) meant to do harm and deceive.

 

[douggg]

well no matter how old people are makes no difference to me, if your lead by the lord you will have wisdom that's older than anything on living earth

I always take my time to answer anyone ☺️

So then have you ever considered.


Can sacrifice be spiritual too 🤔

In response to your question...

1Peter2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Let's get back to the issue - how can the Antichrist stop the daily sacrifice without a temple being built ?

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

In response to your question...

1Peter2:5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Let's get back to the issue - how can the Antichrist stop the daily sacrifice without a temple being built ?

you make it sound as if I avoided your question when it was answered

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Many do not realize that the counterfeit Satan-man (as opposed to the God-man Jesus Christ) INVARIABLY "shows up right on time" so to speak. At EVERY critical time and pivotal juncture in close proximity to God. Satan is ALWAYS attempting (in vain) to thwart God's plan of salvation by any and every way and means.

Many do not realize that this was likewise Judas' (the Satan-man) ploy. Satan miscalculated and in a last-ditch effort attempted to PREVENT the crucifixion, telling the Pharisees that Jesus was innocent. And after that, Judas tried to make himself appear as Christ Himself (that is where the throwing of the 30 pieces of silver and hanging himself comes into play!!!!)

Likewise, the Satan-man WILL CERTAINLY arise to ONCE AGAIN (in close proximity to the time of the SC, knowing he has a short time left now that the rapture has occurred) attempting to deceive the world by counterfeiting himself as the Messiah. And as the Bible clearly describes, the Satan-man WILL PROCLAIM HIMSELF to be God IN THE TEMPLE IN JERUSALEM.
Consequently people will be FORCED to make a CHOICE. And they do!

2Th 2:3
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
2Th 2:4
who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

not that i would want to disagree with you for disagreeing, but I don't see a last ditch effort.


Matthew 27:3

NIV - When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders.

KJV - Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

 

[douggg]

you make it sound as if I avoided your question when I answered it.

The daily sacrifice as started by the Mt. Sinai covenant that the Jews (Judaism) go by is the two lambs, one in the morning and one in the evening.

The text in Daniel 8 indicates that the little horn person (the Antichrist) will stop the daily sacrifice. The text in Daniel 9 indicates that the prince who shall come (the Antichrist) will stop the daily sacrifice. The text in Daniel 12-11-12 indicates that the daily sacrifice will be stopped before the abomination of desolation is set up.

Those are not "spiritual sacrifices" but literal, two lambs a day, one in the morning and one in the evening.

So again - how can the Antichrist stop the daily sacrifice without there being a temple built ?

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

The daily sacrifice as started by the Mt. Sinai covenant that the Jews (Judaism) go by is the two lambs, one in the morning and one in the evening.

The text in Daniel 8 indicates that the little horn person (the Antichrist) will stop the daily sacrifice. The text in Daniel 9 indicates that the prince who shall come (the Antichrist) will stop the daily sacrifice. The text in Daniel 12-11-12 indicates that the daily sacrifice will be stopped before the abomination of desolation is set up.

Those are not "spiritual sacrifices" but literal, two lambs a day, one in the morning and one in the evening.

So again - how can the Antichrist stop the daily sacrifice without there being a temple built ?

does the antiChrist stop the sacrifice in the flesh 🤔

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

@douggg The temple was destroyed in 70 ad

 

[douggg]

does the antiChrist stop the sacrifice in the flesh 🤔

The Antichrist will stop the daily sacrifice of the two lambs, one in the morning, one in the evening.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

The Antichrist will stop the daily sacrifice of the two lambs, one in the morning, one in the evening.

will that be in the flesh 🤔



Jewish answer to no more sacrifice


A person asked a Jew

Why don't you have animal sacrifice in the flesh

Answer
Because they can only be done at the temple in Jerusalem by a Levitical priest. Since the temple no longer exists we can no longer do this.

And because we have prayer sacrifice now under a new covenant, our God does not break his covenant

 

[douggg]

@douggg The temple was destroyed in 70 ad

Everyone knows that.

The little horn person's stopping of the daily sacrifice is time of the end, Daniel 8:17, when Jesus returns.

 

[douggg]

will that be in the flesh 🤔



Jewish answer to no more sacrifice


A person asked a Jew

Why don't you have animal sacrifice in the flesh

Answer
Because they can only be done at the temple in Jerusalem by a Levitical priest. Since the temple no longer exists we can no longer do this.

And because we have prayer sacrifice now under a new covenant, our God does not break his covenant

The Jews (Judaism ) are the ones who are going to build a temple that will be made desolate by the Antichrist.