Confusion is not of God.

[Dino246]

I see you know a little about the Jehovah's Witnesses. They used a King James until 1951, and because their doctrines were crushed by the reading of the K.J.B. the decided to write their own. They thrive on the A. and B. text.

Perhaps you missed my point: The JW's started with a KJV! So did many other pseudo-Christian cults. Simply put, using the KJV is no guarantee of doctrinal correctness.

Why doesn't it concern you and others that there is so much confusion in basic doctrinal teachings? Look, all I'm doing is sharing information. Maybe you don't care, and that's fine with me. Use any Bible you wish but beware of God's warning in Revelation 18:18-21. The church today reminds me of a piece of paper that's been run through a shredder, and that concerns me.

The confusion does concern me, but I attribute the cause differently than you. Any current confusion in basic Bible doctrine does not stem from alleged changes in Bible translations, but from inadequate teaching and discipleship; IMHO a culture of "sermons" rather than actual instruction.

Where in Scripture are Church leaders instructed to give a "sermon" at every meeting? Nowhere! Leaders are instructed to teach the Word. In my experience, sermons are about the poorest mechanism for teaching I have encountered.

Does that mean I think that differences between translations are irrelevant? No. However, I do think that KJV-onlyists generally attribute evil motive behind them far more than is warranted, and assert both more serious error and more egregious impact than is rational.

At no time have I encountered material from any KJV-onlyist (including every single one on this forum) that is completely free from denigrating statements, implications of inferiority on other translations (and their users), or sensational and dire warnings of heresy stemming from a change in a single verse's wording. There is so much bloviating that whatever valuable message there may be is lost is the effluential hype.

 

[Dino246]

Ninety seven percent of the know 5500 + manuscripts agree with the text of the King James, that's proof enough.

I think you meant, "known".

"There are lies, damned lies, and statistics." (att. Mark Twain)

I said this recently, though perhaps not to you; there are good reasons why the relative proportions of text types are what they are, and good reasons why those proportions are essentially irrelevant.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

One can hope.

Yes we should hope,

And not add to that or take away from that hope 🙂

I thought this was your intentions I really did.

 

[10-22-27]

I think you meant, "known".

"There are lies, damned lies, and statistics." (att. Mark Twain)

I said this recently, though perhaps not to you; there are good reasons why the relative proportions of text types are what they are, and good reasons why those proportions are essentially irrelevant.

You said I wrote, know instead of known. "Petty anti-nonsense."

 

[10-22-27]

There were two stages of English before this. After Old and Middle English comes the third stage of the English language, known as Modern English, which began in the 16th century and continues to the present day.

The Early Modern English period, or Early New English, emerged after the introduction of the printing press in England in 1476, which meant that books could be mass-produced, and more people learned to read and write. As a result, the standardization of English continued.

The Renaissance (14th-17th centuries) saw a rediscovery of classical learning, which had a significant impact on English literature. During this time, the English language also borrowed many Greek and Latin words.

The King James Bible, which was first published in 1611, also had a significant impact on the development of Early Modern English. The Bible was translated into English from Latin and Greek, introducing many new words into the language.

The rise of the British Empire (16th-20th centuries) also had a significant impact on the English language. English became the language of commerce, science, and politics, and was spread around the world by British colonists. This led to the development of many different varieties of English, known as dialects.

One of the most famous examples of Early Modern English literature is William Shakespeare's play Romeo and Juliet, which was first performed in 1597. To this day, William Shakespeare is considered the greatest writer in the English language.

The final stage of the English language is known as Modern English, which has been spoken from around the 19th century to the present day. Modern English has its roots in Early Modern English, but it has undergone several changes since then.

The most significant change occurred in the 20th century, with the introduction of mass media and technology. For example, new words have been created to keep up with changing technology, and old words have fallen out of use. However, the core grammar and vocabulary of the language have remained relatively stable.

Today, English is spoken by an estimated 1.5 billion people around the world, making it one of the most widely spoken languages in the world. It is the official language of many countries, including the United Kingdom, the United States, and Australia. English is also the language of international communication and is used in business, education, and tourism.

The Bottom Line

English is a fascinating language that has evolved over the centuries, and today it is one of the most commonly spoken languages in the world. The English language has its roots in Anglo-Saxon, a West Germanic language spoken by the Anglo-Saxons who settled in Britain in the 5th century.

The earliest form of English was known as Old English, which was spoken until around the 11th century. Middle English emerged after the Norman Conquest of 1066, and it was spoken until the late 15th century. Modern English began to develop in the 16th century, and it has continued to evolve since then.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

There were two stages of English before this. After Old and Middle English comes the third stage of the English language, known as Modern English, which began in the 16th century and continues to the present day.

The Early Modern English period, or Early New English, emerged after the introduction of the printing press in England in 1476, which meant that books could be mass-produced, and more people learned to read and write. As a result, the standardization of English continued.

The Renaissance (14th-17th centuries) saw a rediscovery of classical learning, which had a significant impact on English literature. During this time, the English language also borrowed many Greek and Latin words.

The King James Bible, which was first published in 1611, also had a significant impact on the development of Early Modern English. The Bible was translated into English from Latin and Greek, introducing many new words into the language.

The rise of the British Empire (16th-20th centuries) also had a significant impact on the English language. English became the language of commerce, science, and politics, and was spread around the world by British colonists. This led to the development of many different varieties of English, known as dialects.

One of the most famous examples of Early Modern English literature is William Shakespeare's play Romeo and Juliet, which was first performed in 1597. To this day, William Shakespeare is considered the greatest writer in the English language.

The final stage of the English language is known as Modern English, which has been spoken from around the 19th century to the present day. Modern English has its roots in Early Modern English, but it has undergone several changes since then.

The most significant change occurred in the 20th century, with the introduction of mass media and technology. For example, new words have been created to keep up with changing technology, and old words have fallen out of use. However, the core grammar and vocabulary of the language have remained relatively stable.

Today, English is spoken by an estimated 1.5 billion people around the world, making it one of the most widely spoken languages in the world. It is the official language of many countries, including the United Kingdom, the United States, and Australia. English is also the language of international communication and is used in business, education, and tourism.

The Bottom Line

English is a fascinating language that has evolved over the centuries, and today it is one of the most commonly spoken languages in the world. The English language has its roots in Anglo-Saxon, a West Germanic language spoken by the Anglo-Saxons who settled in Britain in the 5th century.

The earliest form of English was known as Old English, which was spoken until around the 11th century. Middle English emerged after the Norman Conquest of 1066, and it was spoken until the late 15th century. Modern English began to develop in the 16th century, and it has continued to evolve since then.

AHH I can prove English has many connections to the French 😋

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Here you go @10-22-27

Proof over 40.000 English words came from the French

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influence_of_French_on_English

 

[Kroogz]

The 4th was outside of a Unitarian Universalism church. It read, “Bible study 7 P.M. Bring Bible and scissors.”

The 5th was outside a KJVonly church. It read, "KJVonly: Division is our mission."

 

[Angela53510]

Confusion is not of God, men cause confusion. For what purpose? Greed, pride, who knows what lies in the heart of man or woman. Corrupted Bible I believe are the greatest enemy of the church from within. Brooke Foss Westcott (1825-1903) and Fenton John Anthony Hort combined with the A-Codex Sinaiticus, and B-Vatican manuscripts have done a great deal of damage to the unity of the Christian community. Examine the differences in the two most popular Bibles, the King James and the N.I.V.

‘When you see this’, that means it was left out of the N.I.V.

K.J.V. 1 John 5:7, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." in

N.I.V. 1 John 5:7, “For there are three that testify;” I don’t even have to comment on this corrupted translation.


K.J.V. Colossians 1:14, "In whom we have redemption through His (Jesus) blood, even the forgiveness of sins."

N.I.V. Colossians 1:14, “In whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.”


K.J.V. Acts 8:37, Philip came to a eunuch, who had great authority. The eunuch was reading the book Of Isaiah but could not understand it. Philip then began to explain what was written.

Acts 8:36, "See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? Verse 37, "Philip said, if thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he (the eunuch) answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."

N.I.V. Acts 8:36, “As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. Why souldn’t I be baptized?” Verse 37 has been removed. There is no response from Philip to the eunuch’s question.


K.J.V. Matthew 18:11, Jesus said, "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost."

N.I.V. Matthew 18:11, The verse has been removed.



K.J.V. Luke 9:56, Jesus said, "For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village."

N.I.V. Luke 9:56, “And they went to another village.” The answer of why the Father sent his Son, and why he died for us has been removed.


K.J.V. 1 Timothy 3:16, “Without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh,”

N.I.V. “the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in a body,” The word God has been changed to He, removing the clearest teaching in all Scripture that Jesus Christ is God himself.


Luke 4:4, K.J.B. “And Jesus answered him, saying, it is written, that man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.”

Luke 4:4, N.I.V. “Jesus answered, it is written: man does not live on bread alone.” Left out, but by every word of God.” In doing so, Jesus would be exalting “every word to the devil.


O.T. prophesy: Psalms 69:21, “They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.”

K.J.V. Matthew 27:34, “They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall;” Compare with,

N.I.V. Matthew 27:34, “There they offered Jesus' wine to drink, mixed with gull;” By changing vinegar to wine, the Bible would be inaccurate and in error, and give our enemies ammunition for mocking the Scriptures.


K.J.B. Matthew 27:35, “And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, they parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.” Compare with the,

N.I.V. Matthew 27:35, “When they had crucified him, they divided up his clothes by casting lots.” Leaving out the above is definitely a matter of doctrine and theology.


O.T. prophesy: Isaiah 53:12, “and he was numbered with transgressors;”

K.J.V. Mark 15:28, “And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, and he was numbered with the transgressors.” Compare with the,

N.I.V. Mark 15:28, The N.I.V. left the entire verse out.


K.J.V. Matthew 25:13, “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.” Compare with the,

N.I.V. Matthew 25:13, “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.” By leaving out the above, they deny the return of Christ.

K.J.V. Mark 6:11, “And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when you depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them. Verily I say unto you, it shall be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment than for that city.” Compare with the,

N.I.V. Mark 6:11, “And if any place will not welcome you or listen to you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave, as a testimony against them.” Leaving out the above is a matter of doctrine.

K.J.V. Colossians 3:6, “For these things sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience.” Compare with the,

N.I.V. Colossians 3:6, “Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.” These words indicate clearly the exact recipients of God’s wrath and judgment.


K.J.V. John 3:15, “That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.” Compare with the,

N.I.V. John 3:15, "That everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.” By removing the above, the reality of hell has been removed. They use a comma instead of a colon to close out verse 14.


K.J.V. Romans 14:10, “But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at naught they brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.”

N.I.V. Romans 14:10, “You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat.” By replacing “God’s judgment seat” for the “judgment seat of Christ,” some may think the verse refers to “the great white throne” judgment.















Let's continue our journey comparing the K.J.V. and the N.I.V. Bibles. I was challenged by someone on this forum to show them doctrinal differences between Bibles. I believe many inaccurate translations are intentional. The end product severely dilutes, and confuse. We are in a spiritual war. What we see is the visible, not the invisible.



K.J.V. 1 John 5:7, "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." in

N.I.V. 1 John 5:7, “For there are three that testify;” I don’t even have to comment on this corrupted translation.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------



K.J.V. Colossians 1:14, "In whom we have redemption through His (Jesus) blood, even the forgiveness of sins."



N.I.V. Colossians 1:14, “In whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.”

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------



K.J.V. Acts 8:37, Philip came to a eunuch, who had great authority. The eunuch was reading the book Of Isaiah, but could not understand it. Philip then began to explain what was written.
Acts 8:36, "See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? Verse 37, "Philip said, if thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he (the eunuch) answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."



N.I.V. “As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. Why souldn’t I be baptized?” Verse 37 has been removed. There is no response from Philip to the eunuch’s question.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

K.J.V. Matthew 18:11, Jesus said, "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost."



N.I.V. The verse has been removed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


K.J.V. Luke 9:56, Jesus said, "For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village."

N.I.V. “And they went to another village.” The answer of why the Father sent his Son, and why he died for us has been removed.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
3. K.J.V. 1 Timothy 3:16, “Without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh,”

N.I.V. “the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in a body,”

The word God has been changed to He, removing the clearest teaching in all Scripture that Jesus Christ is God himself.

In fact, nice job of highlighting all those extra words which do not appear in the earliest and best manuscripts. The KJV has so much conflated and added text, and you just showed me what a very poor text it is to study. I could show you a few more, like the Longer ending of Mark, parts of John 8, etc.

So, do you think manuscripts which popped up suddenly with no lineage in the 8-10 centuries AD having many more words than other, earlier versions which do not have all these spurious texts! Seems to me the only way you get more words is if you add to them during the next 200--800 Years.

 

[10-22-27]

In fact, nice job of highlighting all those extra words which do not appear in the earliest and best manuscripts. The KJV has so much conflated and added text, and you just showed me what a very poor text it is to study. I could show you a few more, like the Longer ending of Mark, parts of John 8, etc.

So, do you think manuscripts which popped up suddenly with no lineage in the 8-10 centuries AD having many more words than other, earlier versions which do not have all these spurious texts! Seems to me the only way you get more words is if you add to them during the next 200--800 Years.

The 8 to 10 centuries were ruled with an iron fist by the Catholic church whose Bible were in Latin. Men like Wycliffe were murdered because they attempted to translate the Latin to English.

I would like you to think about what I am going to say. The Codex Sinaiticus is a 4th century document found in a Catholic monastery. If it had value, then explain to us why the Catholic didn't use it in their version of the Bible. Even their Douay agrees with the King James.

 

[10-22-27]

The 5th was outside a KJVonly church. It read, "KJVonly: Division is our mission."

I had recently taken a business trip to San Francisco a few weeks back, and while walking down Market Street below Sutro Tower, I noticed several churches having marquee’s outside; The first read,

“Come in and say hello to sister Frank the perfect 10, and brother Shirley!”

The other read, “How to lose friends and infuriate people!”

 

[YWPMI]

This is in reply to 1's first comment at the top of this series...

First, thank you for your comment. It does - should - give us all to w pause to examine OUR understanding of what THE TRUTH OF ADONAI'S WORD really IS. What does HE SAY about each word He spoke to Holy men whom HE told to write?

When they completed writing, HIS warning was this:

Revelation: 22: 19-21 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifies these things saith,

20 Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

 

[YWPMI]

He also tells us to Study, so that we can stand approved before HIM. So, what I learn is from the books HE suggests to me.

 

[10-22-27]

Perhaps you missed my point: The JW's started with a KJV! So did many other pseudo-Christian cults. Simply put, using the KJV is no guarantee of doctrinal correctness.


The confusion does concern me, but I attribute the cause differently than you. Any current confusion in basic Bible doctrine does not stem from alleged changes in Bible translations, but from inadequate teaching and discipleship; IMHO a culture of "sermons" rather than actual instruction.

Where in Scripture are Church leaders instructed to give a "sermon" at every meeting? Nowhere! Leaders are instructed to teach the Word. In my experience, sermons are about the poorest mechanism for teaching I have encountered.

Does that mean I think that differences between translations are irrelevant? No. However, I do think that KJV-onlyists generally attribute evil motive behind them far more than is warranted, and assert both more serious error and more egregious impact than is rational.

At no time have I encountered material from any KJV-onlyist (including every single one on this forum) that is completely free from denigrating statements, implications of inferiority on other translations (and their users), or sensational and dire warnings of heresy stemming from a change in a single verse's wording. There is so much bloviating that whatever valuable message there may be is lost is the effluential hype.

Dino wrote, "The JW's started with a KJV! So did many other pseudo-Christian cults. Simply put, using the KJV is no guarantee of doctrinal correctness."

Dino, do you have a New World Translation of the Jehovah's Witnesses? The reason they wrote their own Bible is because the King James Bible crushed their teaching. They had to rewrite the scriptures. That's why the Mormons added the book of Mormons to their teaching. And why the Catholics add the Catechism to their teaching and why Mary Baker Eddy added her book "The Science and Health" to the teaching of Scripture.

Let me give you a few examples. The Jehovah's Witnesses have had four new copywrites since their first Bible came out in 1951. Why? Because of the errors in their first three editions. The same with the N.I.V having had four new copywrites since their first edition in 1971, as have most of the Bibles that base their work on the corrupted A. an B. test.

K.J.B. "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants' things which must shortly come to pass;"

N.W.T. "A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place."

Note, they changed "The Revelation" to "A revelation." It may not look like much, but what they have done with this change is to say, Jehovah has given them more revelations over the years then what's in the book of Revelations, in other words, they have been given more enlightenment over the years.

John 1:1, K.J.B. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

John 1:1, N.W.T. "In (the) beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god." To them, Jesus is not God, but a god.

That's the reason the cults add more books to their teaching, they have to! Now you can argue all you want; what I'm telling you is the truth.

 

[Dino246]

You said I wrote, know instead of known. "Petty anti-nonsense."

Nice. Completely miss the point and instead make a snarky comment.

 

[10-22-27]

Nice. Completely miss the point and instead make a snarky comment.

Sorry!

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

I don't want to get into bashing specific Bible translations, but the kjv is nowhere close to being the original source. It has its own problems as most translations of the more original sources do.

 

[10-22-27]

I don't want to get into bashing specific Bible translations, but the kjv is nowhere close to being the original source. It has its own problems as most translations of the more original sources do.

Be more specific as to its errors, if that's what you mean. By the way, thanks for your input.

Now, as far as the 48 translators of the K.J.B. they were the best of the best; I have no problem there. So, what's lacking.? You appear to have a great deal of knowledge, but please do not tell me about the corrupted A. and B. manuscripts. I know they're some of the oldest, but they are the most corrupted and should have been burned when found. You will need another avenue of approach.

 

[FollowerofShiloh]

Be more specific as to its errors, if that's what you mean. By the way, thanks for your input.

Now, as far as the 48 translators of the K.J.B. they were the best of the best; I have no problem there. So, what's lacking.? You appear to have a great deal of knowledge, but please do not tell me about the corrupted A. and B. manuscripts. I know they're some of the oldest, but they are the most corrupted and should have been burned when found. You will need another avenue of approach.

I love the kjv Bible. I use it the most. But it comes directly from Erasmus' Textus Receptus." In his own admittance, he only went as far back into history to the 10th century Latin Vulgate, which had already changed from the original 3rd century one Jerome created.

 

[Dino246]

Dino wrote, "The JW's started with a KJV! So did many other pseudo-Christian cults. Simply put, using the KJV is no guarantee of doctrinal correctness."

Dino, do you have a New World Translation of the Jehovah's Witnesses? The reason they wrote their own Bible is because the King James Bible crushed their teaching. They had to rewrite the scriptures. That's why the Mormons added the book of Mormons to their teaching. And why the Catholics add the Catechism to their teaching and why Mary Baker Eddy added her book "The Science and Health" to the teaching of Scripture.

Let me give you a few examples. The Jehovah's Witnesses have had four new copywrites since their first Bible came out in 1951. Why? Because of the errors in their first three editions. The same with the N.I.V having had four new copywrites since their first edition in 1971, as have most of the Bibles that base their work on the corrupted A. an B. test.

K.J.B. "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants' things which must shortly come to pass;"

N.W.T. "A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him, to show his slaves the things that must shortly take place."

Note, they changed "The Revelation" to "A revelation." It may not look like much, but what they have done with this change is to say, Jehovah has given them more revelations over the years then what's in the book of Revelations, in other words, they have been given more enlightenment over the years.

John 1:1, K.J.B. "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

John 1:1, N.W.T. "In (the) beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god." To them, Jesus is not God, but a god.

That's the reason the cults add more books to their teaching, they have to! Now you can argue all you want; what I'm telling you is the truth.

Miss the point much?