TEMPLE......TO BE OR NOT TO BE....THAT IS MY QUESTION!!!!!
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When I look at OT prophecy of things that have occured. I see that they were literally fulfilled. Especially when it came top Jesus first comming
1. We are told where he will come (bethlehem) (Micah 5: 2 - fulfilled Matt 2: 4-6)
2. He will be born of a virgin (Is 7: 14 fulfilled Luke 1: 35)
3. He will come out of egypt (Hosea 11: 1 fulfilled Matt 2: 14 - 15)
4. He will speak in Parables (Ps 78: 1-2 fulfilled Matt 13: 34 - 35
5. He will perform miracles (Is 35: 5-6)
6. Messiah will come on a donkey (Zach 9: 9 fulfilled Matt 21: 8-10)
7 Psalms 22 - he will be forsaken, He is ridiculed, They will say " “He trusted in the Lord, let Him rescue Him;
Let Him deliver Him, since He delights in Him!”
I am poured out like water,
And all My bones are out of joint;
My heart is like wax;
It has melted [e]within Me.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
And My tongue clings to My jaws;
You have brought Me to the dust of death.
16 For dogs have surrounded Me;
The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me.
They pierced My hands and My feet;
17 I can count all My bones.
They look and stare at Me.
18 They divide My garments among them,
And for My clothing they cast lots.
Fulfilled Matt 27. Mark 15, Luke 23 and John 19
These and so many other prophecies were fullfilled to the T. Exactly as God said they would.
Now I can imagine many people up until these things happened do like many today. They can;t explain them so they excuse them away or make a spiritual application. But as we can see. those after saw, these things happened. and we know it. It PROVES he is the one true God.
As for Matt 24.
It says they (the readers) will SEE an ABOMINATION (idol or unclean thing) Standing in the HOLY PLACE
so until this happens. Just like until we saw the the cross. we can determine, it has not happened yet.
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),
It says after the reader sees this, what will happen. A time of great tribulation which has not been nor shall ever be. This time will be so great. if it is not shortened no flesh (life) will survive
Matt 24: 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
It says how this tribulation will end.
1 Jesus will return
2. The whole world will see Jesus in the clouds and they will warn, because they realise their time is up
3. At this time, the elect will be gathered from the 4 corners.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
so until all of these things happen as we are told, Just like until we saw the the cross (Using that as our precidence) . we can determine that non of these things have happened yet.
1. We are told where he will come (bethlehem) (Micah 5: 2 - fulfilled Matt 2: 4-6)
2. He will be born of a virgin (Is 7: 14 fulfilled Luke 1: 35)
3. He will come out of egypt (Hosea 11: 1 fulfilled Matt 2: 14 - 15)
4. He will speak in Parables (Ps 78: 1-2 fulfilled Matt 13: 34 - 35
5. He will perform miracles (Is 35: 5-6)
6. Messiah will come on a donkey (Zach 9: 9 fulfilled Matt 21: 8-10)
7 Psalms 22 - he will be forsaken, He is ridiculed, They will say " “He trusted in the Lord, let Him rescue Him;
Let Him deliver Him, since He delights in Him!”
I am poured out like water,
And all My bones are out of joint;
My heart is like wax;
It has melted [e]within Me.
15 My strength is dried up like a potsherd,
And My tongue clings to My jaws;
You have brought Me to the dust of death.
16 For dogs have surrounded Me;
The congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me.
They pierced My hands and My feet;
17 I can count all My bones.
They look and stare at Me.
18 They divide My garments among them,
And for My clothing they cast lots.
Fulfilled Matt 27. Mark 15, Luke 23 and John 19
These and so many other prophecies were fullfilled to the T. Exactly as God said they would.
Now I can imagine many people up until these things happened do like many today. They can;t explain them so they excuse them away or make a spiritual application. But as we can see. those after saw, these things happened. and we know it. It PROVES he is the one true God.
As for Matt 24.
It says they (the readers) will SEE an ABOMINATION (idol or unclean thing) Standing in the HOLY PLACE
so until this happens. Just like until we saw the the cross. we can determine, it has not happened yet.
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),
It says after the reader sees this, what will happen. A time of great tribulation which has not been nor shall ever be. This time will be so great. if it is not shortened no flesh (life) will survive
Matt 24: 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
It says how this tribulation will end.
1 Jesus will return
2. The whole world will see Jesus in the clouds and they will warn, because they realise their time is up
3. At this time, the elect will be gathered from the 4 corners.
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
so until all of these things happen as we are told, Just like until we saw the the cross (Using that as our precidence) . we can determine that non of these things have happened yet.
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I never said it wasn't actual. I said it was both. But the scope of the scriptures is dealing with primarily the Jewish people, not the world now. I think your entire view is too broad. For example, the Bible is written to a particular audience...predominantly 1st Jews. So who is the...you who see...in verse 15 above? If you believe literally, as you espouse, it's referring to those who heard. And indeed it is.
Consider your argument. You read the Bible, don't understand how the things written there can have occurred, and determine they haven't happened. You don't read the rest of scripture this way. You read it, assume God is speaking to the audience it was spoken to, and accept what God has declared. And at that point, you see where history corresponds. You are doing the opposite here. You read what God declared, ignore the audience, and look straight to history to see if what God declared to a first century audience has happened. Your first assumption should be that it did, and work from that perspective.
Something else to consider. Everyone of the prophecies you mentioned found their fulfillment in Jesus in the 1st century.
Consider your argument. You read the Bible, don't understand how the things written there can have occurred, and determine they haven't happened. You don't read the rest of scripture this way. You read it, assume God is speaking to the audience it was spoken to, and accept what God has declared. And at that point, you see where history corresponds. You are doing the opposite here. You read what God declared, ignore the audience, and look straight to history to see if what God declared to a first century audience has happened. Your first assumption should be that it did, and work from that perspective.
Something else to consider. Everyone of the prophecies you mentioned found their fulfillment in Jesus in the 1st century.
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Where's the Holy place?The Mercy seat is the Holy Place.If you are of God,and stand for God,then you will have the Holy Spirit sitting on the Mercy seat.
If not,then it is the abomination that causes desolation that stands in the Holy place.You are standing for the things of the beast,and not of God, and are unclean.
Let he who has ears understand.And let them that be in Judea flee to the mountains.
There is nothing new under the sun.I'm not saying that God wont do something new in Revelation.I really believe that everyone will be surprised what God has planned for his people.Even those who he has given revelations too.
The scriptures in revelation do relate to a certain time in the future.A lot of these things have already come to past,and will happen again.
Some people heard with their ears in the book of Acts and understood, then fled to the mountains.
It happens everyday across the globe.
In Revelation when the 144,000 give testimony of the Two Witnesses,those who have ears and understand will flee to the mountains.
People will cry out to the mountains "fall on us and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb."
This is just like the safe place God placed Moses in the cleft of the rock.He was covered by the Word.
If not,then it is the abomination that causes desolation that stands in the Holy place.You are standing for the things of the beast,and not of God, and are unclean.
Let he who has ears understand.And let them that be in Judea flee to the mountains.
There is nothing new under the sun.I'm not saying that God wont do something new in Revelation.I really believe that everyone will be surprised what God has planned for his people.Even those who he has given revelations too.
The scriptures in revelation do relate to a certain time in the future.A lot of these things have already come to past,and will happen again.
Some people heard with their ears in the book of Acts and understood, then fled to the mountains.
It happens everyday across the globe.
In Revelation when the 144,000 give testimony of the Two Witnesses,those who have ears and understand will flee to the mountains.
People will cry out to the mountains "fall on us and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb."
This is just like the safe place God placed Moses in the cleft of the rock.He was covered by the Word.
Nope, I'm so sorry, but you're wrong. It shows where both previous temples were ordered by Him to be built, there is nowhere He's commanded a third temple build, with scripture closed, this disqualifies the possibility that these things are future to us. Logically we as men can't just build a "god's temple" with a God commanding it. Please post me the verse you believe says a 3rd temple is there.
The "who" see. is the future people. The people in Israel at the time it happens. And in effect. the whole world could be at view. because the tribulation is worldwide. not suck in one place.
I have considered if they have happened. I see no evidence.
I do not see anywhere where anyone saw an abomination in the holy place, or until the last century do I see it as even a possibility
I see no evidence at any time of a time of tribulation that was so sever if it was not cut short. no flesh would survive. Ahain, until the advent of nuclear weapons. I do not even see the possibility it could occure
I see no evidence Christ returned in the clouds. where the whole world saw him and mourned because of his presence. or any evidence that he gather his elect from all over the earth.
So I have considered it. And my reject any notion that it has already taken placed based on factual evidence that is not there.
I have considered if they have happened. I see no evidence.
I do not see anywhere where anyone saw an abomination in the holy place, or until the last century do I see it as even a possibility
I see no evidence at any time of a time of tribulation that was so sever if it was not cut short. no flesh would survive. Ahain, until the advent of nuclear weapons. I do not even see the possibility it could occure
I see no evidence Christ returned in the clouds. where the whole world saw him and mourned because of his presence. or any evidence that he gather his elect from all over the earth.
So I have considered it. And my reject any notion that it has already taken placed based on factual evidence that is not there.
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What's even MORE amazing to me is that even history records this happened already, exactly on time and as He said it would. Read up on how at the 70ad destruction of Jerusalem the city was completely surrounded by Rome's forces, then for reasons no one can really answer, the army pulled back, when they did the Christians left the city for the mountains and stayed in Pella avoiding the slaughter. Very interesting study.
so
when did the abomination of desolation happen
When did the great tribulation happen. which was so severe. if God did nto cut it off. no life would survive
When did Jesus return in the clouds. when the whole world saw him, and gather his elect?
What more amazing, is when people see things did not happen. Yet say they did
when did the abomination of desolation happen
When did the great tribulation happen. which was so severe. if God did nto cut it off. no life would survive
When did Jesus return in the clouds. when the whole world saw him, and gather his elect?
What more amazing, is when people see things did not happen. Yet say they did
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Again you are wrong. Haggi was the one the Lord spoke this through, and Ezra confirms the fulfillment. So NO God NEVER commanded a third temple built. Unless you can show me. I'll listen.
Haggi 1:1-11
1 In the second year of Darius the king, in the sixth month, on the first day of the month, the word of the Lord came by the hand of Haggai the prophet to Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest: 2 “Thus says the Lord of hosts: These people say the time has not yet come to rebuild the house of the Lord.” 3 Then the word of the Lord came by the hand of Haggai the prophet, 4 “Is it a time for you yourselves to dwell in your paneled houses, while this house lies in ruins? 5 Now, therefore, thus says the Lord of hosts: Consider your ways. 6 You have sown much, and harvested little. You eat, but you never have enough; you drink, but you never have your fill. You clothe yourselves, but no one is warm. And he who learns wages does so to put them into a bag with holes.
7 “Thus says the Lord of hosts: Consider your ways. 8 Go up to the hills and bring wood and build the house, that I may take pleasure in it and that I may be glorified, says the Lord. 9 You looked for much, and behold, it came to little. And when you brought it home, I blew it away. Why? declares the Lord of hosts. Because of my house that lies in ruins, while each of you busies himself with his own house. 10 Therefore the heavens above you have withheld the dew, and the earth has withheld its produce. 11 And I have called for a drought on the land and the hills, on the grain, the new wine, the oil, on what the ground brings forth, on man and beast, and on all their labors.”
Ezra 6:13-15
13Then, according to the word sent by Darius the king, Tattenai, the governor of the province Beyond the River, Shethar-bozenai, and their associates did with all diligence what Darius the king had ordered. 14And the elders of the Jews built and prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. They finished their building by decree of the God of Israel and by decree of Cyrus and Darius and Artaxerxes king of Persia; 15and this house was finished on the third day of the month of Adar, in the sixth year of the reign of Darius the king.
Haggi 1:1-11
1 In the second year of Darius the king, in the sixth month, on the first day of the month, the word of the Lord came by the hand of Haggai the prophet to Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, governor of Judah, and to Joshua the son of Jehozadak, the high priest: 2 “Thus says the Lord of hosts: These people say the time has not yet come to rebuild the house of the Lord.” 3 Then the word of the Lord came by the hand of Haggai the prophet, 4 “Is it a time for you yourselves to dwell in your paneled houses, while this house lies in ruins? 5 Now, therefore, thus says the Lord of hosts: Consider your ways. 6 You have sown much, and harvested little. You eat, but you never have enough; you drink, but you never have your fill. You clothe yourselves, but no one is warm. And he who learns wages does so to put them into a bag with holes.
7 “Thus says the Lord of hosts: Consider your ways. 8 Go up to the hills and bring wood and build the house, that I may take pleasure in it and that I may be glorified, says the Lord. 9 You looked for much, and behold, it came to little. And when you brought it home, I blew it away. Why? declares the Lord of hosts. Because of my house that lies in ruins, while each of you busies himself with his own house. 10 Therefore the heavens above you have withheld the dew, and the earth has withheld its produce. 11 And I have called for a drought on the land and the hills, on the grain, the new wine, the oil, on what the ground brings forth, on man and beast, and on all their labors.”
Ezra 6:13-15
13Then, according to the word sent by Darius the king, Tattenai, the governor of the province Beyond the River, Shethar-bozenai, and their associates did with all diligence what Darius the king had ordered. 14And the elders of the Jews built and prospered through the prophesying of Haggai the prophet and Zechariah the son of Iddo. They finished their building by decree of the God of Israel and by decree of Cyrus and Darius and Artaxerxes king of Persia; 15and this house was finished on the third day of the month of Adar, in the sixth year of the reign of Darius the king.
Learn about apocalyptic language and how God uses it. Have you read about 70 ad? It was pretty bad. And I'm not getting into the "well when did this happen then" game. No matter what I say you will deny it and we can go on and on because YOU won't listen and will deny. You know my best case? Read His word. Just some food for thought, Nero waged war on the Christians about 42 months. Not making any claims, just saying.
Dan 9
And the prince of the people who is to come (a future prince) will destroy the city and sanctuary (this is the destruction of the second temple_
Then he (the future prince) will confirm a covenant with many for 1 week. But in the middle of the week. He will break that covenant, By commiting the abomination which causes desolation jesus spoke of in Matt 24.
If there is no temple. then prophecy can not be fulfilled.
My God does not lie. when he says something will happen. it does.
And the prince of the people who is to come (a future prince) will destroy the city and sanctuary (this is the destruction of the second temple_
Then he (the future prince) will confirm a covenant with many for 1 week. But in the middle of the week. He will break that covenant, By commiting the abomination which causes desolation jesus spoke of in Matt 24.
If there is no temple. then prophecy can not be fulfilled.
My God does not lie. when he says something will happen. it does.
Indeed brother I’m just sharing what I believe and scripture that shows why . I do t really recall having many things I disagree that you write to be honest sometimes we say the same thing in a different way
i didnt respond because I thought you were wrong or anything just like you said there offering a thought to consider
i didnt respond because I thought you were wrong or anything just like you said there offering a thought to consider
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The idea that animal sacrifice would be "sacrilige" is dumb. A hypothetical operation of an Aaronic Priesthood would neither add or take away anything from the new covenant... at no point did Jesus or the Apostles ever say that the Temple is bad, or that it would be bad if another Temple were to be constructed after that one was demolished- OR even that offering animal sacrifices amounted to apostasy. What they DO SAY is that those sacrifices cannot save an apostate; because they cannot remit sins. They can't, and they never did.
When people rage against the idea of a third Temple, it just comes off as thinly veiled anti-semitism to me; I certainly don't see any biblical basis for anti-temple tirades.
When people rage against the idea of a third Temple, it just comes off as thinly veiled anti-semitism to me; I certainly don't see any biblical basis for anti-temple tirades.
To help you now. Why do you assume He didn't want the hearers to understand? It was spoken to them.
And I do believe Revelation and Daniel go hand in hand. I believe Revelation confirms Daniel and informs it. So with that in mind, what is happening in the 1st century that has the world turned upside-down?
And I do believe Revelation and Daniel go hand in hand. I believe Revelation confirms Daniel and informs it. So with that in mind, what is happening in the 1st century that has the world turned upside-down?
(whoever reads, let him understand)
why is he talking to a reader. when these words would not even be written for years. let alone be able to read by everyone.
But it was not a great tribulation.
The world was not affected by Jerusalem being destroyed.
Most of the world did not even know it happened.
why is he talking to a reader. when these words would not even be written for years. let alone be able to read by everyone.
But it was not a great tribulation.
The world was not affected by Jerusalem being destroyed.
Most of the world did not even know it happened.
That's correct. So was it meaningless to those who heard?
Why wasn't it a great tribulation on the residents of Jerusalem? God had chastened the people of Israel many times, but He never severed ties with the nation. Doesn't that in and of itself make it the greatest tribulation? Why do you believe the end in view is the world and not the end of the old covenant? In order for the new covenant to come in, the old must be done away with. This, in my understanding, is the substance of Daniel and Revelation.
I realize I'm swimming against the current here, but the book of Revelation truly does reveal this.
Why wasn't it a great tribulation on the residents of Jerusalem? God had chastened the people of Israel many times, but He never severed ties with the nation. Doesn't that in and of itself make it the greatest tribulation? Why do you believe the end in view is the world and not the end of the old covenant? In order for the new covenant to come in, the old must be done away with. This, in my understanding, is the substance of Daniel and Revelation.
I realize I'm swimming against the current here, but the book of Revelation truly does reveal this.