TEMPLE......TO BE OR NOT TO BE....THAT IS MY QUESTION!!!!!

[iamsoandso]

I don't know that all that necessarily follows even if all you say is true. There are other explanations for those things.
What do you believe is God's principle message is in the book of Revelation and what time frame does the book encompass?

I see the latter date, why though is in that the Church of Smyrna https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/2-8.htm did not exist until AFTER Paul had written his epistles to all of the other Churches, (Smyrna had not yet known the Lord) see chapter 11 of the letter of Polycarp to the Philippians https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0136.htm also in Revelation 17:8-13 the angel states that the sixth head is (present tense) and that the 7th head,the 8th and the 10 horns/kings did not yet exist at the time John saw the vision(the angel says their all future) https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/17.htm

,,,as for the principal message I see Revelation 1:19 in that it is revealing the things John had seen(past) things he saw(present tense) and what was to come to pass(future tense)... https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/1-19.htm

 

[iamsoandso]

good night,,sleep well...

 

[Nehemiah6]

Unless he wrote it prior to the destruction of Jerusalem.

That is plain SILLY.

There is almost universal acceptance that Revelation was written around 96 AD. That would be TWENTY SIX YEARS after the destruction of Jerusalem.
JOHN GILL'S COMMENTARY
But the more commonly received opinion is, that he had this vision there, at the latter end of Domitian's reign (i) by whom he was there banished, about the year 95, or 96.

 

[PaulThomson]

How can prophecy be fulfilled if there is no temple rebuilt?

It never was built to have sin forgiven. but it has a purpose. In this case. the purpose will be to fulfill prophecy. Because God said it will be there..

The church is tbe third temple. When antiChrist sets himself up as Christ in the church, and seduces and culls out genuine Christians from the "Christian" assemblies and seduces carnal Christians to worship him as God in Jerusalem, and kills the two witnesses, and removes all truly Christian presence from within Jerusalem and sets himself up as God, the daily sacrifice of Christian praise will have been taken away and the temple will have been desecrated and the abomination that makes desolate will have been installed.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Could who see?
Did who run?
Who says Christ hasn't returned?

15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the[c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

when did these things happen?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Do you believe the resurrection has already happened?

Who said anything about a ressurection? Jesus himself tells us how he will return.. The whole world will see him this time.. He comes with his armies.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Fair enough,,,To me from the next few chapters and sentences the Temple was destroyed and no one else sacrificed in it after that point... To me the Jews destroyed it before that could take place but that's what I see and respect that you see to research it further....

Are you saying jesus got it wrong, because the Jews prevented what Jesus saw to come true?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

The church is tbe third temple. When antiChrist sets himself up as Christ in the church, and seduces and culls out genuine Christians from the "Christian" assemblies and seduces carnal Christians to worship him as God in Jerusalem, and kills the two witnesses, and removes all truly Christian presence from within Jerusalem and sets himself up as God, the daily sacrifice of Christian praise will have been taken away and the temple will have been desecrated and the abomination that makes desolate will have been installed.

This does not answer the question.

Matt 24: 15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),

1. He says when you see the abominable things stand in the holy place.
2. He tells the read of this to understand. Because it will be them who see this abominable object in the holy place of a temple

The church is not the third temple. It is the true temple

the third temple and true temple are not the same thing

 

[Cameron143]

That is plain SILLY.

There is almost universal acceptance that Revelation was written around 96 AD. That would be TWENTY SIX YEARS after the destruction of Jerusalem.
JOHN GILL'S COMMENTARY
But the more commonly received opinion is, that he had this vision there, at the latter end of Domitian's reign (i) by whom he was there banished, about the year 95, or 96.

Or it's not.
Gill is awesome, but near universal acceptance of the 96 AD is simply not true. And as much as I've learned from Gill, he like everyone, is limited in his understanding.
Christian and universal agreement are universal agreement in the same sentence is an oxymoron.

 

[Komentaja]

I believe in this passage the HIM in question is EPIPHANES, who slaughtered a pig in the temple... and his defeat is where HANUKKAH comes from....The passage transitions into the future at vs 36......

What about the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24:15 and the 2 thessalonians 2:3 part about the man of sin sitting in the temple of God proclaiming Himself to be God?

 

[Cameron143]

I see the latter date, why though is in that the Church of Smyrna https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/2-8.htm did not exist until AFTER Paul had written his epistles to all of the other Churches, (Smyrna had not yet known the Lord) see chapter 11 of the letter of Polycarp to the Philippians https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0136.htm also in Revelation 17:8-13 the angel states that the sixth head is (present tense) and that the 7th head,the 8th and the 10 horns/kings did not yet exist at the time John saw the vision(the angel says their all future) https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/17.htm

,,,as for the principal message I see Revelation 1:19 in that it is revealing the things John had seen(past) things he saw(present tense) and what was to come to pass(future tense)... https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/1-19.htm

I agree on the message. So what are the things that were, and are, and are to come?

 

[Cameron143]

15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the[c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

when did these things happen?

1st century.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

1st century.

Can you share the report of how everyone saw this abomination of desolation standing in the HS?

 

[Jimbone]

TEMPLE......TO BE OR NOT TO BE....THAT IS MY QUESTION!!!!!

The debate is vast among believers on the subject of a 3rd temple in Jerusalem.
For the record, I DO NOT BELIEVE THERE WILL BE ONE.....nor do I believe any such structure for the purpose of sacrifice I.E TABERNACLE will be constructed....
Many if Not most believers are watching for this so called construct to be built basing their end times readiness on that event......However, DOES THE BIBLE ACTUALLY SAY THERE WILL BE A TEMPLE?
[Rev 11:1-2 ] 1 Then there was given me a measuring rod like a staff; and someone said, "Get up and measure the TEMPLE OF GOD AND THE ALTER, and those who worship in it. 2 "Leave out the court which is outside the temple and do not measure it, for it has been given to the nations; and they will tread under foot the holy city for forty-two months.
One of the clearest passages indicating a temple, and to be certain, one that seems to indicate a third temples existence. during the 70th week.
the structure described in the above passage, is a brick & mortar building...ruling out the TENT (tabernacle) theory so what explanation can there be? I believe that it is an illustration for John's benefit as He is writing the book of Revelation.
However, if we look closely, some clear problems begin to unfold in this passage........TEMPLE OF GOD......IF THE JEWS ARE SUCCESSFUL in Building this Temple, to be used for ANIMAL SACRIFICE, can it be legitimately called TEMPLE OF GOD? when in fact it would be sacrilege for animal sacrifice to be instituted once again. the benefit would primarily exist to be a home base for the anti christ, not BELIEVERS OR JEWS.... yet in the passage above it seems to indicate a viable TEMPLE with the purpose of GODS dwelling place....so what is JOHN seeing? I believe He is simply seeing the Temple as it existed in HIS DAY...NOT a FUTURE rebuilt structure. I'll Admit I don't have all the answers...but I do know there will BE NO RIGHTEOUS PURPOSE for a third temple....
I will show later...how if this 3rd Temple is built, it must also be destroyed AGAIN.....
THE BATTLE RAGES TIL THE LION ROARS!!!!

I agree 100%. To me an issue that parallels exactly what you're saying, has to do with revelation in general and if God still speaks to men in this way. For a temple to be God's I believe He must command it built. In scripture today I see nowhere He orders this temple built. As Christian I've always been under the impression that most agree scripture was closed, everything God was going to do was fulfilled in Jesus. Israel was going to bring forth redemption, judgement, and the kingdom.

The Temple pointed to Jesus, rebuilding that temple now would #1 be an insult to Jesus and any Christian should tear there metaphorical robes at the thought of such an insult to our King, and #2 wouldn't even be "Gods" temple and just another of man's pretty pile of rocks. In the bible the end of the age, this is when the covenant breaking Jews that told OUR God to His face "we have no king but Caesar", "crucify Him", and "His blood be on US and OUR children", these times and things are described before His disciples asked in Matthew 24 when ALL these things would take place, and by Jesus Himself were told "Truly I tell you this generation will not pass until ALL these things take place." When we look above this to see what "ALL" He was talking about, it leaves little room for this stuff being future to us. When we read anything about this time it is always spoken of in a very local and "coming soon" sense. Even down to Jesus words on the way to the cross to the weeping women and He tells them "Don't weep for Me, weep for YOUR children". Everything is speaking of a VERY close coming and local judgement on a very specific people. I believe this view fits His word SO much better than the vastly more popular pre-trib pre-mill stuff that dominates today.

 

[Underwhosewings]

I have a question for those who believe there will be a new temple?
Why would God accept offering for sin in this temple?
Seems to me that would be blasphemy because it would deny what Jesus did on the cross.
It would justify what the Jews continued to do after Jesus died even though God allowed the temple to be destroyed in 70AD because of this sin.
You should also understand that the word temple does not always refer to a building.

God is still opening the eyes of the spiritually blind.
Muslims and Jews are converting to Christianity.

Acts 6:7 KJV
And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly;
and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

1 Peter 3:20 KJV
Which sometime were disobedient, when once
the longsuffering of God
waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
2 Peter 3:9 KJV
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness;
but is longsuffering
to us-ward,
not willing that any should perish,
but that all should come to repentance.

 

[Cameron143]

Can you share the report of how everyone saw this abomination of desolation standing in the HS?

Seeing can also mean understood that this is what happened or occurred...meaning they all had knowledge of the occurrence and understood it to be what Jesus had earlier referred to. All would be those who had ears to hear.

 

[PaulThomson]

This does not answer the question.

Matt 24: 15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand),

1. He says when you see the abominable things stand in the holy place.
2. He tells the read of this to understand. Because it will be them who see this abominable object in the holy place of a temple

The church is not the third temple. It is the true temple

the third temple and true temple are not the same thing

I think the church is the holy place. The antichrist claims to be the founder of the church and orders the death of anyone in the church who does not accept him as Christ returned.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I agree 100%. To me an issue that parallels exactly what you're saying, has to do with revelation in general and if God still speaks to men in this way. For a temple to be God's I believe He must command it built. In scripture today I see nowhere He orders this temple built. As Christian I've always been under the impression that most agree scripture was closed, everything God was going to do was fulfilled in Jesus. Israel was going to bring forth redemption, judgement, and the kingdom.

The Temple pointed to Jesus, rebuilding that temple now would #1 be an insult to Jesus and any Christian should tear there metaphorical robes at the thought of such an insult to our King, and #2 wouldn't even be "Gods" temple and just another of man's pretty pile of rocks. In the bible the end of the age, this is when the covenant breaking Jews that told OUR God to His face "we have no king but Caesar", "crucify Him", and "His blood be on US and OUR children", these times and things are described before His disciples asked in Matthew 24 when ALL these things would take place, and by Jesus Himself were told "Truly I tell you this generation will not pass until ALL these things take place." When we look above this to see what "ALL" He was talking about, it leaves little room for this stuff being future to us. When we read anything about this time it is always spoken of in a very local and "coming soon" sense. Even down to Jesus words on the way to the cross to the weeping women and He tells them "Don't weep for Me, weep for YOUR children". Everything is speaking of a VERY close coming and local judgement on a very specific people. I believe this view fits His word SO much better than the vastly more popular pre-trib pre-mill stuff that dominates today.

It does not say God commanded it

It says it is there.

Huge difference

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Seeing can also mean understood that this is what happened or occurred...meaning they all had knowledge of the occurrence and understood it to be what Jesus had earlier referred to. All would be those who had ears to hear.

I disagree.

Jesus said when you see it STANDING in the HOLY PLACE.

a physical place within the temple. and a physical abomination (idle or unclean thing)

No one saw it in 70 AD because it did not happen.

Also. Can you explain how all life on earth was threatened in 70 AD causing christ to return?

 

[Cameron143]

I disagree.

Jesus said when you see it STANDING in the HOLY PLACE.

a physical place within the temple. and a physical abomination (idle or unclean thing)

No one saw it in 70 AD because it did not happen.

Also. Can you explain how all life on earth was threatened in 70 AD causing christ to return?

I understood at the outset that we disagree and that we aren't likely to come to agreement. I am interested in what you believe and why, and will freely admit I don't understand every aspect of eschatology.
I do believe the abomination was dealing with the temple and could have been both physical and spiritual. The idol could have been a physical idol or sacrifice itself could have been the idol since it was no longer necessary or something else entirely. I'm not settled on the issue.
Why do you believe all of life need be threatened for Jesus to come back? I believe He returned to bring the sanctions promised to those who didn't obey the stipulations of the old covenant. Jesus told a parable about a man who bought a vineyard in a far country and sent a series of servants to collect who were beaten and killed. So the owner sent his son who was also killed. The parable ends with a question: what do you think the owner of the vineyard will do when he comes? I believe what happened circa 70 AD was what the owner did. Since all authority had been transferred to the risen Lord, I believe it was Jesus who came.