The Error of KJV-Onlyism

[Bible_Highlighter]

and prostituion is the same as harlotry
yes it was a serious sin
Why did God tell Hosea to marry a sinful woman? You tell me.
Could it be ...a painful lesson to the nation of Israel or that it was to show that God could forgive a sinner?

You cant add to the Bible what isnt there and claim that Gomer had to make a vow to honor her husband when it was clear she did not. Its like saying Jacob had to love Leah when he really didnt love her as much as he did Rachel.

You are not hearing the Scriptures I have shown. Unless you deal with them, this conversation is simply not going to continue.

 

[Jimbone]

KJVonly people just use KJV as their only source, thats the thing.

When they reference, they reference ONLY the KJV. They dont need to reference any other Bible or book. They just get all their scripture from KJV.

No need to get into a huff about it.

In some ways, it makes it easier instead of referencing 20 other versions.
Academics like to study other books, and read widely, and produced pages of bibliography and cross referencing, but this is the thing academics fail to underrstand. Some people dont have time to study 20 different versions, They dont want to do comparative literature studies.

They just want to trust ONE Bible to tell them Gods Word. To know one deeply than a hundred others skimming the surface. If happens to be KJV then that's fine...its all good...its the Bible. I would only be concerned if someone told me they get all their scripture from the Book of Mormon and that was the only book they ever read.

Agreed 100%, and if that was all they claimed there would be no problem, but they take it WAY past that and use it as a reason to divide the body. To me that's the most glaring issue, but FAR from the only problem with some of the claims made.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Already you are changing the text.



I don’t see that, and the text says nothing about “our very existence”.



Your position makes no sense in light of the three words, “from this generation”. Mine does. There is nothing whatsoever in the text about the written form of the text… not even a hint. The whole Psalm is about God caring for the oppressed; why would the words about preservation suddenly refer His words and not the people? Frankly, that’s silly.


You did not provide a proper citation, and your argument actually supports my position.

So God was not keeping godly men from before that generation?
What about Enoch?

 

[Lanolin]

You are not hearing the Scriptures I have shown. Unless you deal with them, this conversation is simply not going to continue.

No unless YOU deal with them, its not going to be resolved.

You are not seeing what Gomer did to her husband in the book of Hosea. It is quite clear in chapter 1 and 2 that she was unfaithful to him. He admonished her for being lewd. Not with him but with her lovers.

Do we have to quote the entire book here.

 

[Dino246]

I am not new to these kinds of debates. Pretty much if you can think of an argument, I have most likely heard it before and have offered sufficient rebuttals with Scripture. I discussed Scripture on various different Christian forums from 2010-2011. Over the years, I have run into High Calvinists who believe Isaiah 45:7 refers to how God directly creates evil like sin and the devil, etcetera. Yet, 1 John 1:5 says there is no darkness in God. God is good (Mark 10:18). God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man (James 1:13).

Anyway, in Isaiah 45:7, the word "evil" is an archaic word that comes from the King James Bible. In this context and meaning, it is about "calamity or misfortune." God did not create Satan out of thin air, and neither did God create sin at the outset of the six-day creation. These things were not a part of His good creation. God allowed free moral agents to make choices that could either be bad or good that would be on their own heads.

I am well aware of the actual meaning and correct interpretation of this verse, but thanks.

Notice what the verse says. FOR THE LAND HAS COMMITTED GREAT WHOREDOM.

It's not necessary to yell. You erroneously define the first instance of the term by the third instead of letting each be defined by its own context.

Also, the verse says, children of whoredoms. Were the children also prostitutes? This seems highly unlikely; Especially seeing that there is no context or cross reference to support that conclusion.

What is a normal consequence of sexual intercourse, whether legitimate or not? Pregnancy. What is the normal result of pregnancy? Children! "Children of whoredoms" obviously means "children resulting from prostitution", not "children who are prostitutes". "Whoredoms" here also cannot mean "idolatry" because idolatry does not produce children.

Because "children of whoredoms" can only mean "children resulting from prostitution", that informs the definition of the first instance of "whoredoms": prostitution.

As a side note, my interpretation doesn't depend on any particular dictionary.

Of course this is not an unbiased dictionary. You are quoting James Strong's work. He worked on the ASV, which is a part of the Modern Bible movement. While he did his concordance with the strong numbers for the KJB, he was clearly not a KJB bible defender while he did such works.

Genetic fallacy; guilt by association.

Other unbiased dictionaries give us multiple definitions for this word that does not fit the narrative you want to be true.

Then please provide sources and, if possible, links.

Deuteronomy 23:17-18.
1 Corinthians 6:13-16.

Uh huh. And? Of course prostitution is contrary to God's law; nobody is arguing otherwise. Are you trying to claim that it is more serious than idolatry?

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

No unless YOU deal with them, its not going to be resolved.

You are not seeing what Gomer did to her husband in the book of Hosea. It is quite clear in chapter 1 and 2 that she was unfaithful to him. He admonished her for being lewd. Not with him but with her lovers.

Do we have to quote the entire book here.

You actually have to quote actual words from the Scriptures and discuss what words you are talking about. Just referring to chapters or books of the Bible, in general, is sending me on some wild goose chase that I neither have time for nor the desire to do so at this moment in my life. But again, you need to address verses like Deuteronomy 23:17-18, and 1 Corinthians 6:13-16. Give me your commentaries on these texts in the key points of this discussion involving your view of the story of Hosea.

 

[Dino246]

So God was not keeping godly men from before that generation?
What about Enoch?

Red herring.

In other words, "I can't respond adequately to your post so I'm going to throw up some vaguely-relevant accusatory question to get the attention off me and my non-response."

Ain't gonna fly, dude.

 

[Lanolin]

So God was not keeping godly men from before that generation?
What about Enoch?

whos saying that...nobody
what about Enoch.

Hosea was a prophet. God used prophets to teach Israel. Was Israel always good? If you read what they went through, and how disobedient they were I would say NO lol

Was God always good to them ...? Well yes. Even when they failed, He forgave them. He sent his son Jesus to redeem them.

 

[Dino246]

Deuteronomy 23:17-18 says that the sins of harlotry and sodomy are abominations in His sight. Seeing we see that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by a miracle from Heaven, shows the depth of the seriousness of these sins. They are both sexual sins.

Your stubbornness is profound.

Why where the ten northern tribes scattered among the nations? Adultery/prostitution, or idolatry? A one-word answer will suffice.

 

[Lanolin]

You actually have to quote actual words from the Scriptures and discuss what words you are talking about. Just referring to chapters or books of the Bible, in general, is sending me on some wild goose chase that I neither have time for nor the desire to do so at this moment in my life. But again, you need to address verses like Deuteronomy 23:17-18, and 1 Corinthians 6:13-16. Give me your commentaries on these texts in the key points of this discussion involving your view of the story of Hosea.

you the one on a wild goose chase reading other parts of the bible at the same time. How about you stick to one book, and read all of Hosea first.

Of course God viewed whoredom as serious and doesnt want the members of his body being members of a harlot. He doesnt like idolators. He gave lots of warnings in deuteronomy on what NOT to do. So why did he have Hosea marry unfaithful Gomer ? Could it be to show what could be forgiven?

Look what God says to Hosea to do in verse 14 chapter 2, after he got angry with Gomer and threatened to put her away

Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her.

and it goes on (read the entire chapter) that hes going to make a new covenant with her.

 

[Lanolin]

If you have a copy of KJV, and its the same as mine , Book of Hosea is on page 529

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

I am well aware of the actual meaning and correct interpretation of this verse, but thanks.

Involving Isaiah 45:7: Do you take the High Calvinist's viewpoint that God directly created evil in the sense of God directly creating evil beings and sin?

It's not necessary to yell.

It's not yelling. It's sometimes also used as a means of emphasis on certain words. The Bible (KJB) also has "Super Caps."

You erroneously define the first instance of the term by the third instead of letting each be defined by its own context.

The words, "for the land (people), has committed great whoredom" gives us the reason for the words that proceed it. So I disagree with your hermeneutics.

What is a normal consequence of sexual intercourse, whether legitimate or not? Pregnancy. What is the normal result of pregnancy? Children! "Children of whoredoms" obviously means "children resulting from prostitution", not "children who are prostitutes". "Whoredoms" here also cannot mean "idolatry" because idolatry does not produce children.

But the verse explains that the land has committed whoredoms and therefore this is speaking to the people in general and not wouldn't make any sense if the whole region was all prostitutes. It only makes sense if they were into idolatry which is the main issue to God here.

Genetic fallacy; guilt by association.

I am assuming you wouldn't quote from a dictionary put out by Satanists or child abusers involving one's discussion of the Bible.
Granted, I am not saying Mr. Strong is on that level, but the point here is that you are for the Modern Bible movement and you are using a dictionary that is biased to that movement.

Then please provide sources and, if possible, links.

I will provide it in my next post to you.

Uh huh. And? Of course prostitution is contrary to God's law; nobody is arguing otherwise. Are you trying to claim that it is more serious than idolatry?

I am not sure you read these verses. If you did, you didn't catch what it said. God finds the sins of harlotry and sodomy to be abominations in his sight. A person can also sin against their own body with fornication (via by prostitution) and yet other sins are done outside the body. Fornication is the only one where a person sins against their own body. Fornication is a joining with other members. So if one slept with a harlot, they are joining with her other partners who are alive. This is why the beginning of Romans 7 articulates the reason for advising against remarrying when your current spouse is still alive.

 

[Cameron143]

You act like I am new to the Bible and so I was simply expressing that the things I was discussing are very familiar to me.



This discussion is not furthered if one hurls insults at the other.
Let's stick to the topic at hand.



Uh, no. My reply shows that you did not understand where I am coming from and you assume false things about my position.



God has to be consistent with His standard of morality. I believe you are conflating certain things God does and allows (like God being able to take life Himself of His own choosing, which to us would be murder), vs things He doesn’t allow; Yet you assume that this would be the same if God commanded one of His people to join with a whore, which would violate His own Words in Deuteronomy 23:17-18, and 1 Corinthians 6:13-16. God has made it clear that the sins of harlotry and sodomy are abominations in His sight. Yet, this gets a pass when God tells Hosea to marry a prostitute? Your belief is not consistent with the Scriptures or the good standard of God.

I do understand your arguments. I simply disagree on a number of points. And I was mentioning what you did that you might stick to the topic instead of your personal history. And sharing different scriptures isn't designed as a means of suggesting you are new to the Bible. Otherwise, I would have to believe the scripture you share is making the same implication towards me. Is this what you are suggesting is true?
A wife of whoredom can suggest merely taking a wife of God's people. But given the purpose of the book and the terminology employed, it certainly suggests a wife of ill repute. Otherwise, the picture being framed of Israel does not coincide with the actual narrative.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

@Dino246

Sources for the word “whoredoms” or "whoredom":

1913 Websters (Which is one of my faves):
https://www.webster-dictionary.org/definition/Whoredoms

Collins Dictionary:
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/whoredom

Naves Topical Index
Whoredom

Licentious rites of, in [sic] idolatrous worship
Leviticus 19:29; Deuteronomy 31:16; Judges 2:17; 2 Kings 9:22
Idolatry​

Figurative
Ezekiel 16:17-36; Ezekiel 23:3-8; Revelation 17:1-6​

Yes, whoredom can be about harlotry or prostitution. But the context determines it's usage. Genesis 38:24 is an example of a child by prostitution.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

I do understand your arguments. I simply disagree on a number of points. And I was mentioning what you did that you might stick to the topic instead of your personal history. And sharing different scriptures isn't designed as a means of suggesting you are new to the Bible. Otherwise, I would have to believe the scripture you share is making the same implication towards me. Is this what you are suggesting is true?
A wife of whoredom can suggest merely taking a wife of God's people. But given the purpose of the book and the terminology employed, it certainly suggests a wife of ill repute. Otherwise, the picture being framed of Israel does not coincide with the actual narrative.

Sorry, I believe that your position is not consistent with other verses in Scripture. In my post here, I highlight specific words in God's Word that would contradict your belief. Please do not dismiss these words that I have bolded and highlighted. Think slowly about what they say and pray about it.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

I do understand your arguments. I simply disagree on a number of points. And I was mentioning what you did that you might stick to the topic instead of your personal history. And sharing different scriptures isn't designed as a means of suggesting you are new to the Bible. Otherwise, I would have to believe the scripture you share is making the same implication towards me. Is this what you are suggesting is true?
A wife of whoredom can suggest merely taking a wife of God's people. But given the purpose of the book and the terminology employed, it certainly suggests a wife of ill repute. Otherwise, the picture being framed of Israel does not coincide with the actual narrative.

Also, read the beginning of Romans 7. Ask yourself why a person cannot remarry while their spouse is alive. If you read that with 1 Corinthians 6:13-16, it will become clear to you. Also, factoring in Deuteronomy 23:17-18 will help you to see the gravity of this kind of sin. God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah for the sin of Sodomy with a miracle from Heaven. That is how serious that sin was. Harlotry is listed as being just as abominable in Deuteronomy 23:17-18. So this sets up a contradiction for your belief that Textual Critics want you to hold to.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Involving Isaiah 45:7: Do you take the High Calvinist's viewpoint that God directly created evil in the sense of God directly creating evil beings and sin?



It's not yelling. It's sometimes also used as a means of emphasis on certain words. The Bible (KJB) also has "Super Caps."



The words, "for the land (people), has committed great whoredom" gives us the reason for the words that proceed it. So I disagree with your hermeneutics.



But the verse explains that the land has committed whoredoms and therefore this is speaking to the people in general and not wouldn't make any sense if the whole region was all prostitutes. It only makes sense if they were into idolatry which is the main issue to God here.



I am assuming you wouldn't quote from a dictionary put out by Satanists or child abusers involving one's discussion of the Bible.
Granted, I am not saying Mr. Strong is on that level, but the point here is that you are for the Modern Bible movement and you are using a dictionary that is biased to that movement.



I will provide it in my next post to you.



I am not sure you read these verses. If you did, you didn't catch what it said. God finds the sins of harlotry and sodomy to be abominations in his sight. A person can also sin against their own body with fornication (via by prostitution) and yet other sins are done outside the body. Fornication is the only one where a person sins against their own body. Fornication is a joining with other members. So if one slept with a harlot, they are joining with her other partners who are alive. This is why the beginning of Romans 7 articulates the reason for advising against remarrying when your current spouse is still alive.

Meant to say it wouldn't make any sense. I said not wouldn't.

 

[Cameron143]

Sorry, I believe that your position is not consistent with other verses in Scripture. In my post here, I highlight specific words in God's Word that would contradict your belief. Please do not dismiss these words that I have bolded and highlighted. Think slowly about what they say and pray about it.

Is that the problem? I haven't prayed? You obviously haven't put much thought into what I have written. Perhaps tell me the premise for my argument concerning this. I've already addressed your highlighted points. Can you tell me how?

 

[Lanolin]

Chapter 1 Book Of Hosea from KJV

The word of the LORD that came unto Hosea, the son of Beeri, in the days of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah, kings of Judah, and in the days of Jeroboam the son of Joash, king of Israel.
2 The beginning of the word of the LORD by Hosea. And the LORD said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms and children of whoredoms: for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD.
3 So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim; which conceived, and bare him a son.
4 And the LORD said unto him, Call his name Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will avenge the blood of Jezreel upon the house of Jehu, and will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.
5 And it shall come to pass at that day, that I will break the bow of Israel in the valley of Jezreel.
6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And God said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.
7 But I will have mercy upon the house of Judah, and will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword, nor by battle, by horses, nor by horsemen.
8 Now when she had weaned Loruhamah, she conceived, and bare a son.
9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.
10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.
11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.

 

[Lanolin]

Chapter 2 (it gets better)

Say ye unto your brethren, Ammi; and to your sisters, Ruhamah.
2 Plead with your mother, plead: for she is not my wife, neither am I her husband: let her therefore put away her whoredoms out of her sight, and her adulteries from between her breasts;
3 Lest I strip her naked, and set her as in the day that she was born, and make her as a wilderness, and set her like a dry land, and slay her with thirst.
4 And I will not have mercy upon her children; for they be the children of whoredoms.
5 For their mother hath played the harlot: she that conceived them hath done shamefully: for she said, I will go after my lovers, that give me my bread and my water, my wool and my flax, mine oil and my drink.
6 Therefore, behold, I will hedge up thy way with thorns, and make a wall, that she shall not find her paths.
7 And she shall follow after her lovers, but she shall not overtake them; and she shall seek them, but shall not find them: then shall she say, I will go and return to my first husband; for then was itbetter with me than now.
8 For she did not know that I gave her corn, and wine, and oil, and multiplied her silver and gold, which they prepared for Baal.
9 Therefore will I return, and take away my corn in the time thereof, and my wine in the season thereof, and will recover my wool and my flax given to cover her nakedness.
10 And now will I discover her lewdness in the sight of her lovers, and none shall deliver her out of mine hand.
11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.
12 And I will destroy her vines and her fig trees, whereof she hath said, These are my rewards that my lovers have given me: and I will make them a forest, and the beasts of the field shall eat them.
13 And I will visit upon her the days of Baalim, wherein she burned incense to them, and she decked herself with her earrings and her jewels, and she went after her lovers, and forgat me, saith the LORD.
14 Therefore, behold, I will allure her, and bring her into the wilderness, and speak comfortably unto her.
15 And I will give her her vineyards from thence, and the valley of Achor for a door of hope: and she shall sing there, as in the days of her youth, and as in the day when she came up out of the land of Egypt.
16 And it shall be at that day, saith the LORD, that thou shalt call me Ishi; and shalt call me no more Baali.
17 For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name.
18 And in that day will I make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven, and with the creeping things of the ground: and I will break the bow and the sword and the battle out of the earth, and will make them to lie down safely.
19 And I will betroth thee unto me for ever; yea, I will betroth thee unto me in righteousness, and in judgment, and in lovingkindness, and in mercies.
20 I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the LORD.
21 And it shall come to pass in that day, I will hear, saith the LORD, I will hear the heavens, and they shall hear the earth;
22 And the earth shall hear the corn, and the wine, and the oil; and they shall hear Jezreel.
23 And I will sow her unto me in the earth; and I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which werenot my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.