What Does It Mean That God Desires All People To Be Saved?

[PaulThomson]

And we can determine that by 'grace' and 'faith' being in the feminine correct? Since they are feminine, and "that" is neuter it refers back to the whole scope of the salvation clause? The whole scope of salvation is a gift.

Yes. The manner that God devised for us to receive salvation, that is be by grace through faith and not by works, is the gift of God., lest anyone boast that they earned it by their adequate performance.

 

[PaulThomson]

John 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28 ¶Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 ¶Jesus answered and said unto them, that (touto) is the work of God, so that (hina) ye believe on him whom he hath sent.


I have never looked into this verse in this kind of detail. I believe I am going to have to change my view on this one.

One question though....Wouldn't touto(neuter) 'this/that' refer back to " for Him hath God the Father sealed?"

The work of the Father was the sealing of the Son, so that you believe on Him whom HE has sent. Basically, Jesus pointed at Himself and said," this is the work of the Father?"

Interesting. I have always looked at it from the perspective of "what I was told!"

It seems to me they are asking about what works God is requiring of them, not what works God is supposed to do.
It seems to me that Jesus is saying, "What I just told you. That you labour not for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to aeonous life, which the Son of Man shall give to you - that is the work that God requires of you."

 

[PaulThomson]

Only Adam and Jesus had complete free will.

Who has stopped you wanting what you choose to want? We all have complete free will. We can all want/desire whatever we choose. Does imprisonment stop a murderer wanting to murder? Does being without the means to buy a desired item stop us from wanting to buy it? We have freedom to will/desire/want. We don't necessarily have freedom to perform what we will. Romans 7. Calvin was wrong. The will is not bound.

 

[PaulThomson]

John 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28 ¶Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 ¶Jesus answered and said unto them, that (touto) is the work of God, so that (hina) ye might start to believe on him whom that one sent.

That would be a more accurate translation of the subjunctive at the end of v 29. IMHO.

 

[Mem]

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Notice that the verse says, "if we say". If we say that about ourselves then our sin remains; that is, if we believe that we have removed sin from ourselves, sin remains. But, we do not say that. Instead, it is the Bible that says that about us - that through Christ, we have no sin.

[1Jo 1:8 KJV] 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. The Bible tells us so in the following verse:

[1Jo 3:9 KJV] 9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We are under grace, not law. Where there is no law, sin cannot exist because it cannot be assessed: without law, there is no standard for the measurement or assessment of sin:

[Rom 7:8 KJV] 8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin [was] dead.

Have to stop for now - wife needs laptop. Will finish when I can - sorry.

I understand that Christ died to redeem the elect (those that his Father gave him), and that the elect's sins are as far away from God as the east is from the west, as far as their eternal inheritance is concerned, but they still, at times, do yield themselves to the temptations of sin. The man Jesus was the only one of mankind that does not commit sin.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

It seems to me they are asking about what works God is requiring of them, not what works God is supposed to do.
It seems to me that Jesus is saying, "What I just told you. That you labour not for the food that perishes, but for the food that endures to aeonous life, which the Son of Man shall give to you - that is the work that God requires of you."

or could it be it is the work of God in our lives, that brings us to repentence.

In other words. There is no work you can do to be saved. it is all the work of God. You just have to recieve in fgaith (john 1: 12 with eph 2: 8-9)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

John 27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
28 ¶Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 ¶Jesus answered and said unto them, that (touto) is the work of God, so that (hina) ye might start to believe on him whom that one sent.

That would be a more accurate translation of the subjunctive at the end of v 29. IMHO.

where did the word start come from. Just cureous

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Titus 2:11,12
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

The "us"in Titus 2:12, and "the all men" in verse 11 are pertaining to The members of the churches in Crete. Paul left Titus in Crete to set in order the things that are wanting, and to ordain elders in the churches in every city (Titus 1:5).

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

In your studies of the scriptures, you should find out who the scriptures are directed to, in order to keep the scripture in context.

2 Pet 3:9 Peter is speaking to "them that have obtained like precious faith" (2 Pet 1:1) telling them that the Lord is not slake concerning his promise (of their eternal inheritance), but is longsuffering to us-ward (Peter is including himself in his warning to them) not willing that any (of those he was talking to) should perish=death=be separated from their fellowship with God.

When a child of God commits a sin, they separate themselves from God's fellowship, because God does not fellowship with sin. When the child of God repents, God delivers (saves) him from his non-fellowship. During this process the child of God does not lose the promise of his eternal inheritance. This deliverance (salvation) is brought about by the child of God''s good works of repenting.

The scriptures support that there is a salvation =deliverance, according to Strong's concordance, that the child of God receives as he sojourns here on earth, by following God's instructions.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Scriptures do not contradict each other. The "all men" in Acts 17:30 is referring to those who have been born again evidenced in verse 28. The natural man, as described in 1 Cor 2:14, who has not been born of the Spirit, would never repent of breaking one of God's spiritual laws that he cannot perceive.

 

[rogerg]

I understand that Christ died to redeem the elect (those that his Father gave him), and that the elect's sins are as far away from God as the east is from the west, as far as their eternal inheritance is concerned, but they still, at times, do yield themselves to the temptations of sin. The man Jesus was the only one of mankind that does not commit sin.

But what makes a sin a sin?

 

[ForestGreenCook]

John 12:32
And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

If you are to understand the truths contained in the doctrine of Christ, they must all harmonize, with no contradictions. Do the scriptures tell us that all mankind will be drawn to Christ? The only people that will come to him are those that his Father gave to him (John 6:37), therefore the "all men" is limited to those that his Father gave him.

 

[7thMoon]

salvatuon is sOtEria, a feminine word. So it cannot be what touto, which is neuter, references.

I mentioned the participle. σεσῳσμένοι is plural masculine, and strangely dual-case nouns are feminine and masculine. The omicron ending gives a gender, but makes the nominative or accusative case impossible. This implies the referent is the participle.

Inflected:σεσῳσμένοι Root:σῴζω Strong's:G4982 English: saved Code: V-RPP-NPM Long: Verb - Perfect Passive Participle - Nominative Plural Masculine

 

[NightTwister]

Who has stopped you wanting what you choose to want? We all have complete free will. We can all want/desire whatever we choose. Does imprisonment stop a murderer wanting to murder? Does being without the means to buy a desired item stop us from wanting to buy it? We have freedom to will/desire/want. We don't necessarily have freedom to perform what we will. Romans 7. Calvin was wrong. The will is not bound.

Free will is limited by our sin nature. Luther, Calvin, et al were not wrong.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Free will is limited by our sin nature. Luther, Calvin, et al were not wrong.

No, Actually it is not.

Our sin nature may chose to follow its desires.

But it does not mean with Gods help it can not chose to repent.

 

[7thMoon]

The aorist infinitive indicates the beginning of something not yet happening.

Actually, the 1st aorist has the attribute of noncontinuous past action, and the infinite seems to be placed upon the object. This is how have though about the 1st Aorist for a long time.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

John 10:15 tells us who Christ tasted death for, and it was for everyone that was his sheep.

 

[PaulThomson]

where did the word start come from. Just cureous

The aorist infinitive and imperative and subjunctive, as I understand it, refer to actions regarded without implying or denying a sense of duration. That's why I said might begin to believe and might begin to be saved. These expressions neither imply nor deny that the conditional actions have duration.

"The difference between the present and aorist subjunctive is one of aspect rather than of time. In sentences looking forward to the future such as "I am afraid it may happen", the aorist describes single events, whereas the present subjunctive primarily refers to situations or habitually repeated events. In sentences describing repeated events at an indefinite time such as "whenever he has finished, he sits down", the aorist refers to events which, though repeated, precede the time of the main verb.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subjunctive_(Ancient_Greek)#:~:text=The difference between the present,situations or habitually repeated events.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

ohn 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The scriptures speak of a world that God does not love;

John 15:18-19, the world that hates Jesus. John 16:20, the world that rejoiced when Christ died. John 17:9, the world that Jesus will not pray for. John 17:14, the world that Jesus and those that God gave him are not a part of.