The Security Of The Believer

[achduke7]

I recently completed reading James. Why do you assert that works are needful for Salvation if you do indeed comprehend this book? Provide scriptural proof, please. Did Jesus not say, “It is finished?” Is He not your Redeemer?

I submit that breaking the law is just a sign someone is not saved at that time. Doing good works is what James is talking about. People who have the Holy Spirit do good works.

Matt 25:31-46 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

[uncle_mike]

10 If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love

This is as "clear" as it gets. We only abide in Christ "if" we keep His commandments. He is God and God has spoken. Everyone else has to ultimately match what Jesus said.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

No, it won’t because these are two distinct subjects. Again, I ask you:
So, in a nutshell, do you believe that Jesus totally saves us OR do you believe that we have to help Jesus save us? Is the work that Jesus did on the Cross complete OR do we have to help Him finish it?

Again, the answer you seek is in believing the rest of Scripture.
How do you understand Galatians 6:8-9?
How do you understand Romans 8:13?
How do you understand 2 Thessalonians 2:13?
How do you understand 1 Timothy 5:8?
How do you understand Titus 1:16?
What about the Parable of the Talents?
Being able to slowly go through these pieces of Scripture and doing a word for word commentary that is not trying to insert OSAS into these parts of God’s Word will give you the true answer you are looking for from me.

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

I submit that breaking the law is just a sign someone is not saved at that time. Doing good works is what James is talking about. People who have the Holy Spirit do good works.

Matt 25:31-46 31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: 33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

The idea of the Parable of the Sheep and Goats Parable is what?
Is it to a person to get saved?
Or is it to the person who was initially saved by God’s grace and they need to continue in God’s plan of salvation in the Sanctification Process? I get no indication in the Parable that the main point was to go back and get saved or by believing in the finished work of the cross as the solution to solving the problem in the Parable of the Sheep and Goats. The idea of the Parable is simply to do this, or you are toast. That’s the point of the Parable.

 

[uncle_mike]

Here are some key Verses to John 15:
10 If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love, as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

12 My commandment is this, that you love one another as I have loved you.

14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

After kroogz presented me the milk and meat metaphor I was so excited and began researching all of John 15. And I have had to change my thinking based upon this key portion of Verse 10, "10 If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love."

Think opposite of Verse 10, no keeping Jesus commandments is not abiding in God's Love.

Who chooses to obey Jesus commandments in order to abide in His Love? We the believers do, is who. We "choose." So this is based upon what we choose to do.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I am not. I am stuck on a series of Verses that all say the same thing.

10 If you keep my commandments, you shall abide in my love, as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love.

12 My commandment is this, that you love one another as I have loved you.

14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

What about the rest of scripture. does that mean nothing?

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I am not saying anything. Jesus is talking in these Verses, not me.

But you are taking Jesus out of context. and causing Jesus to contradict himself in other passages

 

[uncle_mike]

What about the rest of scripture. does that mean nothing?

It all has to align with Verse 10. So it says what I am saying.

The fact that we know Jesus is talking all of chapter 15 and You are proposing there is different meanings makes me think You are implying Jesus/God is double minded?

 

[uncle_mike]

But you are taking Jesus out of context. and causing Jesus to contradict himself in other passages

No I am not. You are.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

It all has to align with Verse 10. So it says what I am saying.

vs 10 is one verse in scripture

What about what the rest of scripture says?

vs 10 has to do with the context of the passage, which is producing fruit. Not getting or staying saved

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

No I am not. You are.

Oh I am?

So when jesus said I have eternal life. I have passed from death to life. I shall not be judged, i will be raised.

jesus lied?

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

I recently completed reading James. Why do you assert that works are needful for Salvation if you do indeed comprehend this book? Provide scriptural proof, please. Did Jesus not say, “It is finished?” Is He not your Redeemer?

I am not asking you if you just read it. I am asking you to read it again and yet do not read it with your OSAS lens or glasses on. Just let the text speak for itself and ask yourself the questions while you read it. Ask yourself while you read the text, and say,

“Does this sound like James is talking about how to ‘get saved’ or does it sound like he is talking about how one is living out their faith”?​

For example: How do you understand James when he says the following words?

”Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him” (James 1:12).

The way I understand this is not how to get saved but I see it as living out your faith. We have to endure temptation and resist sin when we are tried, whereby we will receive the crown of life (salvation) as the result. This truly shows we love God and not our own sin or selfish ways. One is only fooling themselves if they say they love God and or they are saved and yet they are still holding to the idea they can justify sin on some level. Jesus warned about how even looking upon a woman in lust can cause our whole body to be cast into hellfire bodily (Matthew 5:28-30). Jesus did not end the sermon on the Mount with Him teaching to just believe on the finished work of the cross. Jesus did not end his sermon about how we do not need to worry about all the sins He just mentioned that can destroy your soul in the afterlife. That was not the conclusion He made. Just read Matthew 5, 6, and 7.

 

[uncle_mike]

Oh I am?

So when jesus said I have eternal life. I have passed from death to life. I shall not be judged, i will be raised.

jesus lied?

He said if we do His commands. His sheep hear and follow. Those are commands to be doing.

 

[achduke7]

The idea of the Parable of the Sheep and Goats Parable is what?
Is it to a person to get saved?
Or is it to the person who was initially saved by God’s grace and they need to continue in God’s plan of salvation in the Sanctification Process? I get no indication in the Parable that the main point was to go back and get saved or by believing in the finished work of the cross as the solution to solving the problem in the Parable of the Sheep and Goats. The idea of the Parable is simply to do this, or you are toast. That’s the point of the Parable.

The parable is an example of someone who does good vs someone that does not do good. The people on the right are already saved. Christ calls them Righteous. I submit the people on the right are listening to the Holy Spirit and doing good things.

 

[uncle_mike]

vs 10 is one verse in scripture

What about what the rest of scripture says?

vs 10 has to do with the context of the passage, which is producing fruit. Not getting or staying saved

This is only a discussion. God is not double minded and You are proposing there's multiple meanings here and not one unified thought. And I believe God is keeping to one unified thought here.

 

[selahsays]

I submit that breaking the law is just a sign someone is not saved at that time. Doing good works is what James is talking about. People who have the Holy Spirit do good works.

Does doing good works save you?

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

I recently completed reading James. Why do you assert that works are needful for Salvation if you do indeed comprehend this book? Provide scriptural proof, please. Did Jesus not say, “It is finished?” Is He not your Redeemer?

Also, when you reread Matthew 5, 6, and 7 without your OSAS glasses on, and you let the text speak for itself, also keep in mind that Paul says that if anyone does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. Somebody who justifies they can sin and still be saved on some level is not being humble before God.

 

[selahsays]

Also, when you reread Matthew 5, 6, and 7 without your OSAS glasses on, and you let the text speak for itself, also keep in mind that Paul says that if anyone does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. Somebody who justifies they can sin and still be saved on some level is not being humble before God.

Do works save you?

 

[uncle_mike]

Does doing good works save you?

No way. Keeping His commands are what keeps us abiding in Him.

 

[uncle_mike]

I was Catholic and it's all about works. A lot like the Jews are today since they cannot offer sin offerings. God saves us. But we continue to abide in Him by obeying His commands. That is not works to hear Him, follow Him, love our neighbors like ourselves. It can lead to doing works. If You love Your neighbor You might end up helping them. But it begins first with following Jesus commandments to love.