The Security Of The Believer

[Magenta]

This is a good insight. The exercise of discipline can actually make one closer and feel more loved or cause separation. I took a class called Growing Kids God's Way as a young parent. I was genuinely concerned about being a good father. When I looked to the Bible, I found nothing but poor examples. David had unruly kids. Eli didn't discipline his children. Even Abraham seemed to pass his penchant for shading the truth to his lineage.
One of the things I learned was that all disobedience isn't rebellion. Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child. Sometimes children are forgetful or don't grasp the import of a particular teaching. So the class taught to give the child a second chance to obey. If they complied, it is a matter of foolishness. If they still don't comply, it is a matter of rebellion. Foolishness requires training. Rebellion requires discipline.

One of my pastors had eight children, and two of them were still very young at first, like under five? The eldest (a young woman) was eventually off to college or university (that pastor was with us for a number of years). It was always such a joy to witness both him and his wife deal with their children: sometimes one of the younger two boys would interrupt him while he was teaching, and he would stop to attend to their need, even hugging them to him as they clung to his leg; he was always lovingly patient toward them. Same as his wife, no matter the circumstance. Patient and loving, but discipling with kindness when necessary. For me, as an adult who had been born into a family where I eventually had ten siblings (I was the 7th born) by the time I was eight, that was always such a joy to see, and so heartwarming, because there were no open shows of affection like that in my family of origin. I would comment to them about how I saw them as parents, commending their gentleness, because it helped me see all the more clearly what I had longed for as a child. And why I had rebelled so strenuously against my mother especially when she tried to control me as a teen. It took me many years to realize (after I began my recovery "journey") that it was largely because I had already come to believe she did not really care about me. This topic comes up occasionally when I am talking with my closest sister. I could say a lot more on the subject, but I hate to feel like I am dissing my parents, plus I also know on an intellectual level that they did the best they could with what they had, even though I was left with an emotional void in my life that set me up for failure in so many ways and took decades for me to come to any real understanding around.

 

[Cameron143]

But if we do not do His commands I am now feeling certain I am no longer His friend. That can't be good. That has to mean more than just being trimmed.

It's good that you are convicted. This means that Holy Spirit resides within you. This is evidence that you are in the vine. But no one is completely obedient. So the reference to commands should be understood to mean a life characterized by obedience.

 

[Cameron143]

One of my pastors had eight children, and two of them were still very young at first, like under five? The eldest (a young woman) was eventually off to college or university (that pastor was with us for a number of years). It was always such a joy to witness both him and his wife deal with their children: sometimes one of the younger two boys would interrupt him while he was teaching, and he would stop to attend to their need, even hugging them to him as they clung to his leg; he was always lovingly patient toward them. Same as his wife, no matter the circumstance. Patient and loving, but discipling with kindness when necessary. For me, as an adult who had been born into a family where I eventually had ten siblings (I was the 7th born) by the time I was eight, that was always such a joy to see, and so heartwarming, because there were no open shows of affection like that in my family of origin. I would comment to them about how I saw them as parents, commending their gentleness, because it helped me see all the more clearly what I had longed for as a child. And why I had rebelled so strenuously against my mother especially when she tried to control me as a teen. It took me many years to realize (after I began my recovery "journey") that it was largely because I had already come to believe she did not really care about me. This topic comes up occasionally when I am talking with my closest sister. I could say a lot more on the subject, but I hate to feel like I am dissing my parents, plus I also know on an intellectual level that they did the best they could with what they had, even though I was left with an emotional void in my life that set me up for failure in so many ways and took decades for me to come to any real understanding around.

We are all a bundle of brokenness and scars. Our experiences have left us all psychologically and emotionally unhealthy. And this plays more into our attitudes and actions than we know. Part of the continuing ministry of the Spirit in us is this healing.

 

[uncle_mike]

thanks Mike i appreciate that, we need more people with this sentiment ☺️

I was a bit grief stricken by how much you let things go after i could have quite nearly assassinated any chance of you ever having any credibility here.

All tho that was never my intention.

I'm truly sorry 😔 and I was ashamed of my self, when our brother @Kroogz in not so many words hinted at how hard I had hit you.

sorry I hope we can start a fresh.

and.i can see your policing qualities too ☺️

Please do not worry about it. I could have handled it better. That is my own fault.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Please do not worry about it. I could have handled it better. That is my own fault.

that's something out father probably realised for us all when we slip up this way. This is something we also realise when our kids can not handle correction.

We always give them time to accept,

And you all tho you say you never handled it correctly you did correctly not continue which is the spirit in you friend so please don't worry either

 

[uncle_mike]

God gave us His commands to follow. If we keep His commandments, we are followers of the one true Shepherd. If we go around stealing, murdering, committing adultery, etc., certainly we cannot be His friends. View attachment 259057

Isn't that a reason though to be cut off if we continually do the opposite of His commands?

 

[uncle_mike]

that's something out father probably realised for us all when we slip up this way. This is something we also realise when our kids can not handle correction.

We always give them time to accept,

And you all tho you say you never handled it correctly you did correctly not continue which is the spirit in you friend so please don't worry either

Hindsight is always 20/20 lol

 

[Bible_Highlighter]

Yeah most everyone is really annoyed with you right now,

In such a case: My response is to reply in love in preaching the Scriptures and or to pray for them to see.

but truth is never popular.

Indeed.

I'm praying that you remain steadfast despite the opposition!

Thank you. I will reply back to Dan again maybe over the next week or so (Lord willing).
I am also busy with work, and in writing my PDF write-up titled, “101 Reasons for the KJB being the Pure Word of God.”
It’s been a project in the works for the last year or so. The KJB in American history has been my favorite section of the writeup so far.
I have been using Canva.com to put in some really nice graphics. It sort of looks like a magazine because of Canva. It’s super easy to use.

Also know that all your effort was not for nothing. The word you've put forth from the Bible will not return void - I've already learned a lot from your posts!

May the Lord Jesus get all the glory.

Others will be built up by them too when they do a search and your posts come up. They will reach the right people that love God and His truth.

Lord willing, after my current project, I am planning to do a Christian book teaching key essential doctrines in graphic novel (comic book) format.

May God bless you and your family!

🌼

Thank you. May the Lord’s strength and power be upon you and yours.

Please be well.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

Sincerely,

A Bible Highlighter.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Hindsight is always 20/20 lol

so true lol

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

In such a case: My response is to reply in love in preaching the Scriptures and or to pray for them to see.



Indeed.



Thank you. I will reply back to Dan again maybe over the next week or so (Lord willing).
I am also busy with work, and in writing my PDF write-up titled, “101 Reasons for the KJB being the Pure Word of God.”
It’s been a project in the works for the last year or so. The KJB in American history has been my favorite section of the writeup so far.
I have been using Canva.com to put in some really nice graphics. It sort of looks like a magazine because of Canva. It’s super easy to use.



May the Lord Jesus get all the glory.



Lord willing, after my current project, I am planning to do a Christian book teaching key essential doctrines in graphic novel (comic book) format.



Thank you. May the Lord’s strength and power be upon you and yours.

Please be well.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

Sincerely,

A Bible Highlighter.

love conquers all I guess 🙄

 

[Magenta]

We are all a bundle of brokenness and scars. Our experiences have left us all psychologically
and emotionally unhealthy. And this plays more into our attitudes and actions than we know.
Part of the continuing ministry of the Spirit in us is this healing.

That brokenness and those unseen scars that people carry propel some, and perhaps even many,
deeper into lifestyles that are life destroying. I know because I lived that life until I was almost
forty when I first got clean and sober, after which, it took many years and much introspection and
work and more school-of-hard-knocks' life lessons and much pain and suffering before I saw my way
more clearly and finally came to more fully accept the love of God, but even then, it took profound
encounters and divine intervention. In fact, it was after 24 years of drinking and drugging and feeling
so sick and tired of feeling sick and tired (as they say), before I cried out to the God I did not believe
in, for help. I was not asking for help to quit drinking and drugging. Oh, no! I liked drinking and drugging.
But I wanted the pain to stop. Within days of crying out to God for help, I was clean and sober and finally
on the road to recovery. Belief/faith came many years later.

I have been wanting to mention to @Kroogz that he may find this thread (<= link) helpful and/or encouraging .

And as @Bingo always says, Cameron, thank you for being you .

 

[Magenta]

Belief/faith came many years later.

10 .. Like you said: I was a tough nut to crack .

You were a tough nut to crack.

Yes indeed.

 

[Cameron143]

That brokenness and those unseen scars that people carry propel some, and perhaps even many,
deeper into lifestyles that are life destroying. I know because I lived that life until I was almost
forty when I first got clean and sober, after which, it took many years and much introspection and
work and more school-of-hard-knocks' life lessons and much pain and suffering before I saw my way
more clearly and finally came to more fully accept the love of God, but even then, it took profound
encounters and divine intervention. In fact, it was after 24 years of drinking and drugging and feeling
so sick and tired of feeling sick and tired (as they say), before I cried out to the God I did not believe
in, for help. I was not asking for help to quit drinking and drugging. Oh, no! I liked drinking and drugging.
But I wanted the pain to stop. Within days of crying out to God for help, I was clean and sober and finally
on the road to recovery. Belief/faith came many years later.

I have been wanting to mention to @Kroogz that he may find this thread (<= link) helpful and/or encouraging .

And as @Bingo always says, Cameron, thank you for being you .

I always enjoy reading and hearing stories of grace. I'm ever amazed at the grace of God in my life and other's lives. Keep telling your story. It will serve as an encouragement to others...we all long to tell the old, old story.

 

[Magenta]

I always enjoy reading and hearing stories of grace. I'm ever amazed at the grace of God in my life and other's lives.
Keep telling your story. It will serve as an encouragement to others...we all long to tell the old, old story.

Do you like keep telling it right here right now or just in general, keep telling it? .

 

[fredoheaven]

I am also busy with work, and in writing my PDF write-up titled, “101 Reasons for the KJB being the Pure Word of God.”
It’s been a project in the works for the last year or so. The KJB in American history has been my favorite section of the writeup so far.
I have been using Canva.com to put in some really nice graphics. It sort of looks like a magazine because of Canva. It’s super easy to use.


May the Lord Jesus get all the glory.


Lord willing, after my current project, I am planning to do a Christian book teaching key essential doctrines in graphic novel (comic book) format.


Sincerely,

A Bible Highlighter.

In such a case: My response is to reply in love in preaching the Scriptures and or to pray for them to see.



Indeed.



Thank you. I will reply back to Dan again maybe over the next week or so (Lord willing).
I am also busy with work, and in writing my PDF write-up titled, “101 Reasons for the KJB being the Pure Word of God.”
It’s been a project in the works for the last year or so. The KJB in American history has been my favorite section of the writeup so far.
I have been using Canva.com to put in some really nice graphics. It sort of looks like a magazine because of Canva. It’s super easy to use.



May the Lord Jesus get all the glory.



Lord willing, after my current project, I am planning to do a Christian book teaching key essential doctrines in graphic novel (comic book) format.



Thank you. May the Lord’s strength and power be upon you and yours.

Please be well.

With loving kindness to you in Christ,

Sincerely,

A Bible Highlighter.

Yea, I love KJB too, I just only think many used it unskillfully

 

[Eli1]

That brokenness and those unseen scars that people carry propel some, and perhaps even many,
deeper into lifestyles that are life destroying. I know because I lived that life until I was almost
forty when I first got clean and sober, after which, it took many years and much introspection and
work and more school-of-hard-knocks' life lessons and much pain and suffering before I saw my way
more clearly and finally came to more fully accept the love of God, but even then, it took profound
encounters and divine intervention. In fact, it was after 24 years of drinking and drugging and feeling
so sick and tired of feeling sick and tired (as they say), before I cried out to the God I did not believe
in, for help. I was not asking for help to quit drinking and drugging. Oh, no! I liked drinking and drugging.
But I wanted the pain to stop. Within days of crying out to God for help, I was clean and sober and finally
on the road to recovery. Belief/faith came many years later.

Thank you for sharing this Magenta.
I just want to say that my major mistake in life has been in the fact that i was never properly thankful and grateful to God for everything he's given me.
I've had a wonderful childhood and a loving family, no major problems with friends or extended family during adulthood, everything had been easy and joyful so i should have taken the time in the past to thank and share properly.
I am more aware of my blessings now of course so i do share as much as i can with the church and their missions to help the poor with building homes for free for them in USA and Mexico as well as other causes with cancer and community outreach programs which help low end communities.

 

[mailmandan]

I have been thinking recently, which is never a good thing. But how could a branch, unbeliever, ever be in Jesus to begin with? According to Paul, that's impossible. Those branches "in Jesus" have to be believers.

In John 15:2-6, the branches that bear fruit and remain are genuine believers (like the remaining 11 disciples). The self-attached branches that bear no fruit and do not remain are not genuine believers (like Judas Iscariot). In John 15:2, Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit and branches that bear fruit but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stop bearing fruit.

Greek scholar AT Robertson points out that there are two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). Probably (Bernard) Jesus here refers to Judas.

John 15 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

When Jesus spoke these words in John 15, how many people at that time, prior to Him being glorified, had received the Holy Spirit and were baptized by one Spirit into one body? - "the body of Christ?" (1 Corinthians 12:13) -- NONE.

John 7:38 - He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

So "in me" is part of the metaphor of the vine (in the vine) and not in the body of Christ under the new covenant which was not yet fully established. Without that vital union with Christ, there can be no spiritual life and no productivity. Those who profess to know Christ but whose relationship to Him is self-attached, Christ neither saved them, nor sustains them. Eventually, the dead self-attached fruitless branches are cut off.

 

[Kroogz]

I have been thinking recently, which is never a good thing. But how could a branch, unbeliever, ever be in Jesus to begin with? According to Paul, that's impossible. Those branches "in Jesus" have to be believers.

From my experience, the majority of pastors and todays churches give us only 2 options for this verse. They were not saved or they lost their salvation.

A 3rd option: A believer who does not advance in Gods plan for his/her life will receive correction, then discipline, then HARSH discipline and eventual physical death if they do not start advancing in His plan for them. A sobering truth for us believers if this is the correct interpretation of this verse. And I believe it is the correct interpretation. Losing His race He has set before us has dire consequences, just not loss of salvation.

And the meaning of "takes away" can mean "lifts up." So it may be as simple as that. If we are not bearing fruit, He lifts us up,helps us.

God doesn't use unbelievers as examples in His word to teach believers. And unbelievers are bereft of His spirit to understand it.

 

[Kroogz]

That kind of floors me about Verse 14. I don't see how we are still in the vine if we do not do His commands. I should have not read the whole chapter. But it seems this Verse is a one way only meaning and the opposite means we are no longer friends.

Vs 15 clears this up in my opinion.

If we are in fellowship with the Father, we are in an intimate/friendship/personal relationship with the Father. The moment we grieve or quench the Spirit we are no longer in that intimate, personal relationship. We are servants, no longer knowing the will of the Father.
1 John 1:9 and we are back in the divine sphere of personal fellowship and knowing His will again.

I was just in a back and forth argument with a gentleman. He frustrates me. I frustrate him. Half the day I stewed in my head about this guy.......was I Gods friend thinking that way? No. But I'm still a son.........and I did 1 john 1:9 after I throat punched him! Just kidding!

 

[Kroogz]

That brokenness and those unseen scars that people carry propel some, and perhaps even many,
deeper into lifestyles that are life destroying. I know because I lived that life until I was almost
forty when I first got clean and sober, after which, it took many years and much introspection and
work and more school-of-hard-knocks' life lessons and much pain and suffering before I saw my way
more clearly and finally came to more fully accept the love of God, but even then, it took profound
encounters and divine intervention. In fact, it was after 24 years of drinking and drugging and feeling
so sick and tired of feeling sick and tired (as they say), before I cried out to the God I did not believe
in, for help. I was not asking for help to quit drinking and drugging. Oh, no! I liked drinking and drugging.
But I wanted the pain to stop. Within days of crying out to God for help, I was clean and sober and finally
on the road to recovery. Belief/faith came many years later.

I have been wanting to mention to @Kroogz that he may find this thread (<= link) helpful and/or encouraging .

And as @Bingo always says, Cameron, thank you for being you .

Thanks sister! Honestly stopping the beer flow wasn't that bad. But the habit of doing things without it was the hardest. I went fishing with beer. I went bowling with beer. I went hunting with beer. Whatever I did, I did it with beer. The hardest part was breaking the habit of bringing beer with. Enjoying those hobbies without beer. And after a while, they became even more enjoyable!

My time in the barren tundra came AFTER I was saved(in my pickup truck.). When I started going to church(I had been to church a few times in my life.) I didn't know it at the time, but it was all about cleaning up the old man. Do this! Don't do that! Clean up your life! And I did, to the best of my ability. But I didn't feel right and I knew I still had nasty thought's and I knew i still sinned.

And At bible studies it would invariably come down to "cleaning up your life", "be a better person." I was in a reformed church. So "not really saved" came up a lot. And everybody around the table nodding in agreement. So I was left thinking," How good are these people?! I have to do MORE!" And I white knuckled it for way too long. I was about ready to give up. Not to mention the tulip that was always taught(that never sat right with me.) I was just ignorant.

Long winded Sorry. But I found a grace teacher......

And He taught me how to live in the NEW creation. How to live the Christian way of life. The old man can't get better.He is getting worse.

For me, getting out of religion is darn close to on par with my born again experience.