The Trinity
- Thread starter JacobMartinMertens
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
It says.. if we confess, God is faithful and just to forgive...it doesn't say...if we confess, God forgives...
If God only forgives because we confess, then the maintenance of salvation is incumbent upon the believer. Jesus would be the author of salvation, and we would be the finisher of our salvation.
Also, works would be introduced as a condition of salvation and not a result of salvation.
And last, but not least, we would all go to hell, as everyone has unconfessed sin.
If God only forgives because we confess, then the maintenance of salvation is incumbent upon the believer. Jesus would be the author of salvation, and we would be the finisher of our salvation.
Also, works would be introduced as a condition of salvation and not a result of salvation.
And last, but not least, we would all go to hell, as everyone has unconfessed sin.
-
1
- Show all
Sounds like we are our brother's keeper. Also, without faith, it is impossible to please God. Who in the passage is exercising faith?
Does the one who begins well and falls away exhibit faith? Is the one who sees his brother in trouble and not help him exhibit faith? The just shall walk by faith...Habakkuk 2:4.
Notice the sureness of the statement...they will. Where you find faith, you find God at work.
Does the one who begins well and falls away exhibit faith? Is the one who sees his brother in trouble and not help him exhibit faith? The just shall walk by faith...Habakkuk 2:4.
Notice the sureness of the statement...they will. Where you find faith, you find God at work.
-
1
- Show all
You said the same basic thing twice but insist they are not the same meaning.
No, confessing is not equal to finishing. It's the smallest part of the entire process and is important and required to show we accept the sacrifice of Christ. The unrepentant suffer the wrath and ultimate judgment of God.
Mat_11:20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:
Mat_21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.
Rev_2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
Rev_9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev_16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
Rev_16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
That would be something God would have to judge. There is a HUGE difference between people who refuse to repent, and someone who repented their entire life then died suddenly and wasn't able to confess a sin or two.
No, confessing is not equal to finishing. It's the smallest part of the entire process and is important and required to show we accept the sacrifice of Christ. The unrepentant suffer the wrath and ultimate judgment of God.
Mat_11:20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not:
Mat_21:32 For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.
Rev_2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
Rev_9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev_16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
Rev_16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
That would be something God would have to judge. There is a HUGE difference between people who refuse to repent, and someone who repented their entire life then died suddenly and wasn't able to confess a sin or two.
I agree. There is a grave difference. But why does one confess, and the other does not? Why, when 2 people here the same sermon, does one repent and believe and the other retain his former estate?
And I didn't say the same thing twice. You believe 1 John 1:9 is predominantly concerned with our confession. It isn't. It is a defense both of God's righteousness and faithfulness.
How can God be indiscriminately merciful and forgive sin and still be just? His righteous anger or wrath is not satisfied because sin has not brought death to the forgiven. So while it is a glorious exhibition of God's mercy and faithfulness to pardon sin to those who believe, it makes God a liar because their sin did not result in death as He said. He would be unjust in His indiscriminate application of mercy, and so unrighteous.
Now we know this isn't the case. But why? 1 John chapter 2 tells us we have an advocate. Our advocate is our propitiation...that is, He satisfied God's righteous anger for us in His death. That being the case, God is not only faithful in acting mercifully towards us, but He remains just and righteous in doing so. It is saying the same thing Paul points out in Romans 3:26...to declare...His righteousness:
that He might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
John isn't concerned so much to teach us about confession as he is to explain how God can remain both faithful and just in His forgiveness of our sins.
And I didn't say the same thing twice. You believe 1 John 1:9 is predominantly concerned with our confession. It isn't. It is a defense both of God's righteousness and faithfulness.
How can God be indiscriminately merciful and forgive sin and still be just? His righteous anger or wrath is not satisfied because sin has not brought death to the forgiven. So while it is a glorious exhibition of God's mercy and faithfulness to pardon sin to those who believe, it makes God a liar because their sin did not result in death as He said. He would be unjust in His indiscriminate application of mercy, and so unrighteous.
Now we know this isn't the case. But why? 1 John chapter 2 tells us we have an advocate. Our advocate is our propitiation...that is, He satisfied God's righteous anger for us in His death. That being the case, God is not only faithful in acting mercifully towards us, but He remains just and righteous in doing so. It is saying the same thing Paul points out in Romans 3:26...to declare...His righteousness:
that He might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
John isn't concerned so much to teach us about confession as he is to explain how God can remain both faithful and just in His forgiveness of our sins.
If one comes to Know Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, they have been washed in the blood that removes all sin and is remembered no more.
YET, the Christian also has the Holy Spirit in them as a Resdient that will convict the Believer of sin, and the ability to confess it.
The Holy Is not asleep in HIS ability to do this ever. The believer Fully is aware that what they did was not Christ-like and will repent or be backslidden into a sinful, rebellious lifestyle. "unconfessed sin" is a false narrative because sin is not birthed in the confession; It is birthed in the thought and intent of the heart. The action is the manifestation of what was birthed in the heart of the person.
James 1:14-16
"Unconfessed sin" is really rebellion and a suggestion that the Holy Spirit is asleep on the job.
I know, and you know when you have sinned because in the Believer when we do that, it GRIEVES THE HOLY SPIRIT. IF we ingore that we have serious issues with our walk and claim to name Christ as Lord.
YET, the Christian also has the Holy Spirit in them as a Resdient that will convict the Believer of sin, and the ability to confess it.
The Holy Is not asleep in HIS ability to do this ever. The believer Fully is aware that what they did was not Christ-like and will repent or be backslidden into a sinful, rebellious lifestyle. "unconfessed sin" is a false narrative because sin is not birthed in the confession; It is birthed in the thought and intent of the heart. The action is the manifestation of what was birthed in the heart of the person.
James 1:14-16
"Unconfessed sin" is really rebellion and a suggestion that the Holy Spirit is asleep on the job.
I know, and you know when you have sinned because in the Believer when we do that, it GRIEVES THE HOLY SPIRIT. IF we ingore that we have serious issues with our walk and claim to name Christ as Lord.
-
1
- Show all
Sure, we have serious issues in our walk at that point, but we don't lose our salvation. The very fact that we are grieving the Spirit means He indwells us. And because God is faithful, He will chasten us.
But all that escapes my purpose in asking the question. Post #606 explains my reason for asking.
But all that escapes my purpose in asking the question. Post #606 explains my reason for asking.
I would disagree. There is often a good deal of time between the committing of sin and confession. Otherwise, chastening wouldn't be necessary. Further, we commit sin every day that we aren't even aware of. How many times a day do we leave undone things we know are good to do? How many of those escape our consciousness?
We are alot less sensitive to the Spirit than you imagine.
We are alot less sensitive to the Spirit than you imagine.
-
1
- Show all
I'm not exactly sure what you are saying. I do believe as we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. But our standing with God doesn't change. We remain sons. If we walk in the flesh, our sonship isn't affected; only our ability to enjoy the blessings of our sonship.
-
1
- Show all
The author of Hebrews shows us people who not only had the Gift of the Holy Spirit, but tasted the Heavenly Gift, and shared in it. It means they were "saved." Someone never "saved" could experience this. And they believe similar to as You seem to be proposing and Fell Away and it became impossible for them to be restored.
4-6: For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
4-6: For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.
again the, the act of sin was created in the thought and heart of the person before it manifested in the flesh. One who commits adultery does so in their heart as Jesus said, then the act in the flesh is done. Every sin starts with the temptation of the person who is drawn away from the issues of their own heart. I don't need you to agree it is what the word of God tells us and Jesus himself
