The Security Of The Believer

[Thunderrr-mental]

He certainly has. But children, I've found, only really need 3 things:
Firm boundaries
A set of expectations
To know that you will love them no matter what
Kind of like us with our heavenly Father.

so true. Comes more easy giving it with experience to I guess. And of course when your love is rejected you learn to handle that to

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Of course the father has many kids who have rejected his love at sometime to is where I was going.

I guess our father has well and truly learnt how to handle that and know how to fix it

 

[uncle_mike]

I have been thinking recently, which is never a good thing. But how could a branch, unbeliever, ever be in Jesus to begin with? According to Paul, that's impossible. Those branches "in Jesus" have to be believers.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I have been thinking recently, which is never a good thing. But how could a branch, unbeliever, ever be in Jesus to begin with? According to Paul, that's impossible. Those branches "in Jesus" have to be believers.

Cameron's your best bet for that one. There is the holy spirit on the outer expression for that one who finds the Lost is my best guess

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I was thinking about the lengthy discussion we had about saved children in the old t Cameron 🙂 it opened my eyes to something

 

[uncle_mike]

Cameron's your best bet for that one. There is the holy spirit on the outer expression for that one who finds the Lost is my best guess

But it is going to really have to be convincing. I just cannot see how someone without being saved could ever be "in Jesus."

 

[uncle_mike]

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I wasn't bringing our discussion we had about the Mathew into it when I mentioned earlier in the thread about the sheep who follow.

You never started it, you just caught me at a time when I was annoyed.

So I apologize for my behaviour towards you

So just.relax as we are friends now 💪👍

 

[uncle_mike]

See the branch with fruit on it. This looks like many people make up this branch to produce the whole bundle of fruit. This is not one person. A vine and each branch becomes many branches. It seems impossible for that to mean one person but clearly many people.

 

[uncle_mike]

I wasn't bringing our discussion we had about the Mathew into it when I mentioned earlier in the thread about the sheep who follow.

You never started it, you just caught me at a time when I was annoyed.

So I apologize for my behaviour towards you

So just.relax as we are friends now 💪👍

I have no ill feelings at all. I took it as a discussion only

 

[Cameron143]

Of course the father has many kids who have rejected his love at sometime to is where I was going.

I guess our father has well and truly learnt how to handle that and know how to fix it

This is a good insight. The exercise of discipline can actually make one closer and feel more loved or cause separation. I took a class called Growing Kids God's Way as a young parent. I was genuinely concerned about being a good father. When I looked to the Bible, I found nothing but poor examples. David had unruly kids. Eli didn't discipline his children. Even Abraham seemed to pass his penchant for shading the truth to his lineage.
One of the things I learned was that all disobedience isn't rebellion. Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child. Sometimes children are forgetful or don't grasp the import of a particular teaching. So the class taught to give the child a second chance to obey. If they complied, it is a matter of foolishness. If they still don't comply, it is a matter of rebellion. Foolishness requires training. Rebellion requires discipline.

 

[Magenta]

See the branch with fruit on it. This looks like many people make up this branch to produce the
whole bundle of fruit. This is not one person. A vine and each branch becomes many branches.
It seems impossible for that to mean one person but clearly many people.

I had the radio on the other day (always tuned to my Christian talk station (also
available online: kari55.com, where many programs air throughout the day pretty
much 24/7), and one of the teachers said something to the effect of, branches do
not produce fruit, they only bear fruit. It is the True Vine Who produces the fruit.

 

[uncle_mike]

I could be wrong. Now I am thinking one branch is one person after looking at the picture.

 

[Cameron143]

But it is going to really have to be convincing. I just cannot see how someone without being saved could ever be "in Jesus."

You are correct. The difficulty arises from the sentence structure in John 15:2. Rather than ...every branch in me that beareth not fruit...would be better understood...every branch not bearing fruit in me...
There is fruit that men can produce apart from Christ. This fruit is always bad fruit because it is not produced through the work of Christ. Good fruit is only produced as a result of the work of Christ in is...apart from me, you can do nothing...John 15:5.

 

[uncle_mike]

But I read the entire chapter of John 15 and this tripped me up. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

Are we not friends then if we do not do His commands?

 

[Cameron143]

But I read the entire chapter of John 15 and this tripped me up. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

Are we not friends then if we do not do His commands?

Jesus' references to commands and commandments is a reminder to us to make our salvation sure. In other words, is my life as a whole one of obedience? It doesn't mean that we never sin.

 

[uncle_mike]

That kind of floors me about Verse 14. I don't see how we are still in the vine if we do not do His commands. I should have not read the whole chapter. But it seems this Verse is a one way only meaning and the opposite means we are no longer friends.

 

[uncle_mike]

Jesus' references to commands and commandments is a reminder to us to make our salvation sure. In other words, is my life as a whole one of obedience? It doesn't mean that we never sin.

But if we do not do His commands I am now feeling certain I am no longer His friend. That can't be good. That has to mean more than just being trimmed.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I have no ill feelings at all. I took it as a discussion only

thanks Mike i appreciate that, we need more people with this sentiment ☺️

I was a bit grief stricken by how much you let things go after i could have quite nearly assassinated any chance of you ever having any credibility here.

All tho that was never my intention.

I'm truly sorry 😔 and I was ashamed of my self, when our brother @Kroogz in not so many words hinted at how hard I had hit you.

sorry I hope we can start a fresh.

and.i can see your policing qualities too ☺️

 

[selahsays]

But I read the entire chapter of John 15 and this tripped me up. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command.

Are we not friends then if we do not do His commands?

God gave us His commands to follow. If we keep His commandments, we are followers of the one true Shepherd. If we go around stealing, murdering, committing adultery, etc., certainly we cannot be His friends.