Hay, wait for me.

[Eli1]

I'm sorry to hear this Mike especially since you've decided to stop talking to your family just because they have some icons hanging on their walls.
But this approach is textbook Protestant and if this gives you peace then go for it. This is why i don't see anything wrong with denominations because everyone finds their purpose based on their interpretation, culture and time.
And i'm in no position to say who goes to Hell or Heaven.
So the OP or you, don't have anything new (at least for me) to learn here because this approach is standard for some denoms.

 

[10-22-27]

So based on this answer and after visiting your site this tells me that you left one doctrine (The Catholics) for another doctrine (The Protestants). Again after looking at your site, you are textbook Protestant.
Do you think you arrived there on your own thinking un-influenced by anybody else?

Personally i don't see anything wrong with denominations but like you said, we are here to discuss different points of view and maybe learn something in the process.

I also see another comment here where you feel like you're under pressure, but this shouldn't bother you based on what you've said so far in regards to different views which we are supposed to discuss and if you are truly at peace with God.

Not pressure, what concerns me are hidden traps, not different views. I am a firm believer that a little leaven will leaven the whole loaf. Like drugs or alcohol, it may start with one beer and eventually lead to full-blown alcoholism. One small false doctrine can be like a small cut. If in the wrong environment and the cut is not cared for, that person can lose their arm, leg or even their life. It's the same with sin.

 

[uncle_mike]

I'm sorry to hear this Mike especially since you've decided to stop talking to your family just because they have some icons hanging on their walls.

We meet in mutual places because they don't want me in their homes because i am back slidden to them.

But this approach is textbook Protestant and if this gives you peace then go for it.

No, it is how they did it in the Bible + shook the dust off their feet.

This is why i don't see anything wrong with denominations because everyone finds their purpose based on their interpretation, culture and time.

There's a billion things wrong with Denominations.

And i'm in no position to say who goes to Hell or Heaven.

I never condemned anyone to Hell. I just tell them their beliefs are not what the Bible claims.

So the OP or you, don't have anything new (at least for me) to learn here because this approach is standard for some denoms.

That's because You assume You know my experiences when You don't have the first clue.

 

[Eli1]

Not pressure, what concerns me are hidden traps, not different views. I am a firm believer that a little leaven will leaven the whole loaf. Like drugs or alcohol, it may start with one beer and eventually lead to full-blown alcoholism. One small false doctrine can be like a small cut. If in the wrong environment and the cut is not cared for, that person can lose their arm, leg or even their life. It's the same with sin.

This is a good advise which i appreciate but i also would like to tell you is that this type of thinking is not new since the ideology wants to separate people in groups such as Saved or Not Saved.

 

[Chester]

If I understand your long post right, you are saying that you’re not saved if you don’t believe in a pre trib rapture?
So those people that believe and trust in the substitutionary death, and resurrection, of God in the flesh, Jesus Christ, yet don’t believe in a pre trib rapture are lost?

I’m a pre or mid tribber, and if that is what you are saying, you are not only wrong, but adding to THE Gospel unto Salvation.

Between responses #7, and # 8 this could get interesting? . . . . !!!!!

Does the person who does not believe in a pretrib rapture likely have other wrong views of doctrine, and perhaps so much so that they don't hold correct views of salvation and won't make it to heaven??

Well, my opinion . . . Getting to heaven (being saved) is based completely on our faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ (his death and resurrection) and is not based on whether we have the correct variation of eschatology, etc.

 

[Eli1]

I never condemned anyone to Hell. I just tell them their beliefs are not what the Bible claims.
.

I like this point here Mike.
Based on this point, why did you stop talking to your family who worships icons?
What would you have to lose for example? You're not going to worship icons yourself because of your strong faith and you already told them (in-love) that they're wrong.
So, why did you stopped talking to them or why did they stopped talking to you?

 

[Magenta]

I believe that at the 7th trump, Jesus returns and in a twinkling of an eye, we will all be changed into spiritual
bodies. At this time, a whole bunch of folks will experience the first resurrection—but not everybody.

From 1 Corinthians 15:50-54

 

[uncle_mike]

I like this point here Mike.

Thank You!

Based on this point, why did you stop talking to your family who worships icons?

We still meet up and talk. But their Priest tells them having me over, a back slider to Catholicism, is a sin grievous enough to send them to Hell

What would you have to lose for example?

I am not losing anything here. We still see each other.

You're not going to worship icons yourself because of your strong faith and you already told them (in-love) that they're wrong.

It's really not my choice. I am a back slider to them. They see me as equal to Satan.

So, why did you stopped talking to them or why did they stopped talking to you?

We haven't. We still have family gatherings, yearly reunions, and such.

 

[10-22-27]

Doesn't a Biblical based doctrine need to be actually based upon the Bible itself? So He left a non-biblical opinion for an actual Biblical doctrine.

What's a Protestant? Marthin Luther the father of the movement was a Catholic Bishop with a slightly different view. Who was Arius, presbyter of Alexander, another Catholic with a different view. I never professed to be a Protestant. I am not religious, I'm a Christian, nothing more, nothing less. I believe many of the cult leaders started off as Protestant, Taze Russell, Joseph Smith, Jim Jones, Korish, look where their ignorance took them.

 

[Cameron143]

Thank You!

We still meet up and talk. But their Priest tells them having me over, a back slider to Catholicism, is a sin grievous enough to send them to Hell

I am not losing anything here. We still see each other.

It's really not my choice. I am a back slider to them. They see me as equal to Satan.

We haven't. We still have family gatherings, yearly reunions, and such.

It seems families can't be blessed unless the marriage is immoral.

 

[Eli1]

Thank You!

We still meet up and talk. But their Priest tells them having me over, a back slider to Catholicism, is a sin grievous enough to send them to Hell

I am not losing anything here. We still see each other.

It's really not my choice. I am a back slider to them. They see me as equal to Satan.

We haven't. We still have family gatherings, yearly reunions, and such.

Ahh so in this case they've done a full 180 here and turned extra doctrinal against you.
That's unfortunate. Thank you for sharing that.

I also have known some cases like these which may take years to reconcile based on some other event which could be a tragedy or a special joyous occasion.

Like you said, shake the dust off the feet and move on. You never know how God may connect you again with them years from now. But even if nothing happens, you have the peace already.

God bless you sir.

 

[Magenta]

What's a Protestant? Marthin Luther the father of the movement was a Catholic Bishop with a slightly different view. Who was Arius, presbyter of Alexander, another Catholic with a different view. I never professed to be a Protestant. I am not religious, I'm a Christian, nothing more, nothing less. I believe many of the cult leaders started off as Protestant, Taze Russell, Joseph Smith, Jim Jones, Korish, look where their ignorance took them.

There were those who preceded ML = a German monk, ordained Catholic priest, a professor of theology, author, and Augustinian friar.

 

[uncle_mike]

What's a Protestant? Marthin Luther the father of the movement was a Catholic Bishop with a slightly different view. Who was Arius, presbyter of Alexander, another Catholic with a different view. I never professed to be a Protestant. I am not religious, I'm a Christian, nothing more, nothing less. I believe many of the cult leaders started off as Protestant, Taze Russell, Joseph Smith, Jim Jones, Korish, look where their ignorance took them.

I am like You, a person who obeys Jesus and gains better insight from the writings of the Apostles. I also agree with everything You posted here.

 

[10-22-27]

op: Hey, wait for me [ 'left behind' at the rapture? ].


I like this observation. With respect for my elders, let's ask a few [ less than 12? ]
clarifying questions about two of 'the pieces' of this controversial puzzle:

1) Salvation / Justification / Redemption [ @Nehemiah6 ]? Is it, for us, today,

The Body Of Christ?​

​

a) "By Grace Through faith" Only? If so, then ALL 'members' of The​

Complete Body will be included in God's Great GRACE Departure ​

[ me, Ga ], Correct?​

[ Correctly Apportioned? (@TheDivineWatermark) ]:
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online):

b) Or, yesterday, for Israel, by"faith Plus works"? If so, then only ​

the 'faithful' members will depart, Correct? Problem is, who then​

determines 'how' faithful or Unfaithful any 'member' of The Body​

Must be in order to depart, which would then result in a 'mutilated'​

Body, eh?​

​

2) Is "The Body Of Christ" a woman (bride)"? Or, is it, As Scripture Says:

"...the One New man [bridegroom]..." (Ephesians 2:15)?​

​

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That Differ!” (online)
Clarification?:

The 'bride of The Lamb'?:​

​

And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the​

seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me,​

saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.​

​

And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain,​

and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out​

of heaven from God" (Revelation 21:9-10)​

How then can "The Body" be the same as "The Holy Jerusalem" =

Two Different entities, Correct?​

Further expanded study:

Is The Body Of Christ The Lamb's Wife?

Amen.

Two pieces to this puzzle. For those who have died in Christ, 1 Corinthians 15:51-53, they will have to be resurrected first. Following that, 1 Thessalonians 4:16, they will be caught up to be with the Lord or raptured. Paul revealed both mysteries to the church.

 

[selahsays]

Two pieces to this puzzle. For those who have died in Christ, 1 Corinthians 15:51-53, they will have to be resurrected first. Following that, 1 Thessalonians 4:16, they will be caught up to be with the Lord or raptured. Paul revealed both mysteries to the church.

and here it is:

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

- 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Two pieces to this puzzle. For those who have died in Christ, 1 Corinthians 15:51-53, they will have to be resurrected first. Following that, 1 Thessalonians 4:16, they will be caught up to be with the Lord or raptured. Paul revealed both mysteries to the church.

+

For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

- 1 Thessalonians 4:14-17

Thanks. Does this then clarify 'ALL in The [ Complete ] Body Of Christ depart,'
or only a 'portion [ mutilated ] incomplete Body departs'?

Just wonderin'...

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

selahsays said:
I‘m a post-tribber. I believe that the Second Coming of our Messiah happens at the 7th trump, the last trump.

Technically, that would make you a mid tribber. A position I have been more and more leaning toward. There is still 3.5 yrs of GOD'S Wrath (Tribulation) starting right after the AC seats himself in the temple.

Consider:

--the mid-trib point is at the "5th Trumpet / 1st Woe unto the earth" (not the 7th Trumpet), so the "AOD" at mid-point (and when the "man of sin [AC]" seats himself in the temple, 2Th2:4b) occurs at the 5th Trumpet (along with some other significant events);


--the 2 Witnesses are killed (and conclude their 1260 days) some amount of time LATER than that, at/surrounding the "6th Trumpet [events] / 2nd Woe" (in other words, THEIR "1260 days" STRADDLE the two halves [i.e. overlap somewhat--Rather than falling in either half's 1260d (exclusively)];



--but, you are RIGHT about this: following the death, resurrection of the 2 Witnesses and when they ascend up to heaven (Rev11:7,9,11,12), there still remains yet the "7th Trumpet / 3rd Woe / 1st Vial" and all of the rest of "the Vials" (which themselves take SOME TIME) before Christ's Second Coming to the earth;
The "7th Trumpet / 3rd Woe" (Rev11:14b-15) is pronouncement (on a certain day, as I see it), but is not the END-point of the Trib
(let the readers also consider: why are the "2W" resurrected at a time-slot ["6th Trumpet [events] / 2nd Woe"] completely distinct from when [post-tribbers believe] ALL OTHER saints are resurrected? [supposedly at the "7th Trumpet"] Just something to consider )

 

[selahsays]

+

Thanks. Does this then clarify 'ALL in The [ Complete ] Body Of Christ depart,'
or only a 'portion [ mutilated ] incomplete Body departs'?

Just wonderin'...

I’m not sure what scripture in particular you are referring to. Would you mind specifying? Thank you.

 

[10-22-27]

+

Thanks. Does this then clarify 'ALL in The [ Complete ] Body Of Christ depart,'
or only a 'portion [ mutilated ] incomplete Body departs'?

Just wonderin'...

All!

Consider:

--the mid-trib point is at the "5th Trumpet / 1st Woe unto the earth" (not the 7th Trumpet), so the "AOD" at mid-point (and when the "man of sin [AC]" seats himself in the temple, 2Th2:4b) occurs at the 5th Trumpet (along with some other significant events);


--the 2 Witnesses are killed (and conclude their 1260 days) some amount of time LATER than that, at/surrounding the "6th Trumpet [events] / 2nd Woe" (in other words, THEIR "1260 days" STRADDLE the two halves [i.e. overlap somewhat--Rather than falling in either half's 1260d (exclusively)];



--but, you are RIGHT about this: following the death, resurrection of the 2 Witnesses and when they ascend up to heaven (Rev11:7,9,11,12), there still remains yet the "7th Trumpet / 3rd Woe / 1st Vial" and all of the rest of "the Vials" (which themselves take SOME TIME) before Christ's Second Coming to the earth;
The "7th Trumpet / 3rd Woe" (Rev11:14b-15) is pronouncement (on a certain day, as I see it), but is not the END-point of the Trib
(let the readers also consider: why are the "2W" resurrected at a time-slot ["6th Trumpet [events] / 2nd Woe"] completely distinct from when [post-tribbers believe] ALL OTHER saints are resurrected? [supposedly at the "7th Trumpet"] Just something to consider )

Jesus disciples were with him on the Mt. of Olives when Acts 1:9, "he was taken up; and a cloud (angels) received him out of their sight." two men stood by them and said to them, verse 11, "You men of Galilee, why stand you gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as you have seen him go into heaven." No compare that with Zechariah 14:4.

At the end of the seven years of tribulation, Jesus will come alone and when he comes, Zechariah 14:4, "His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives." He is not coming for his bride, but for the days of vengeance. And he will come alone, Isaiah 63, the LORD is speaking, "I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with men." Verse 4, "For the day of vengeance is in mine heart."

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Hello Nehemiah, good to hear from you, like your post. Matthew 25 may be relevant to this post. "The kingdom of heaven be likened to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went forth to meet the bridegroom (Jesus when he comes for his bride, the rapture). Five were foolish, they were unprepared. Verse 9, The wise, those prepared said to the unwise, "go you rather to them that sell, and by for yourselves. and while they went to buy the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him (Jesus) to the marriage: and the door was shut."

For your consideration:

--"the kingdom OF THE heavenS" is on the earth and commences in earnest upon Christ's "return" to the earth / 2nd Coming to the earth (the earthly MK age [or at least its inauguration] being "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER," which is what the word in v.10 here is speaking to)

--the "10 Virgins" (or even the "5 Wise Virgins" are not the "Bride/Wife [singular]" (the "a chaste virgin [singular]" presently "betrothed" per 1Cor11:2--that's us); Jesus is not coming in this passage to "MARRY" 10 or even "5 Virgins" (these are not the "Bride / Wife [singular]" and this point in the chronology is not "our Rapture [in the air]," but His Second Coming to the earth, FOR the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age, aka "the kingdom OF THE heavenS," aka "the wedding FEAST / SUPPER" [earthly-located]);

"The door was shut." Pretty clear, that the Lord's warning to those who are unwise.

So, let's ask the question, "Why were they unwise, why were they unprepared?"

Again, not speaking of "our Rapture" time-slot; nor of "the Bride / Wife [singular]" here.

To many people confuse the coming of the Lord for his bride with his coming in the days of his vengeance. There two separate events, seven years apart.

Yes, and the one that occurs "seven years later" is where the "10 Virgins" parable has its ending point (the "5 Wise Virgins" will go in "with [G3326--accompanying] Him" to the wedding FEAST / SUPPER / FESTIVITIES" [not "the marriage" itself, pertaining to the "Bride/Wife" alone (UP THERE)]; notice THIS "WITH" word (G3326--accompanying [Him]) is DISTINCT FROM the "WITH [G4862--UNIONed-with [Him]" word that is used of US / "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" (aka also being the presently-betrothed "VIRGIN-singular [the Bride/Wife-singular]") in the passages pertaining to "our Rapture"

And after three and a half years when the witnesses are murdered, and the antichrist takes over, they will have to make a decision, receive his mark or reject it. If they reject it, they will be raised, but not taken into heaven with the bride of Christ but will remain on earth and "reign with Christ a thousand years."

The parables don't really get into the details regarding the "mark of the beast" and so forth, so it's difficult for many to see... but again,THIS time-slot (you are showing here) is when the results of the 10 Virgins parable fit in (time-wise), because it is talking about their ENTRANCE (or NOT) of the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age (commencing upon His RETURN to the earth--same time-slot as when Lk12:36-37,38,40 says, "when he will RETURN FROM the wedding..." [i.e. as an ALREADY-WED Bridegroom], THEN "the meal [G347; see this word also in Matt8:11 and its parallel; speaking of the earthly MK age])

That's my understanding, that's one of my timelines. This subject has to be connected to all other end time prophesies. If you let it hang by itself, it won't work.

TOTALLY AGREE with you on that point... and is why I am such a stickler on this Subject (eschatology).

Thank you for your patience... I do hope you will consider my points here... and I'm willing to attempt to clarify, should you need clarification on anything I've put. = )