The Security Of The Believer

[NightTwister]

The idea is that most Baptists today to my knowledge are Protestants.

Most baptists do not consider themselves "Protestant." They believe baptists existed apart from and along side the Catholic church from the 1st century. They have to do a lot of contortions to get there, along with latching on to some seriously heretical movements.

 

[Fundaamental]

I view calvinism and Armin both as false teachings. Salvation is equal opportunity and equal privilege for ALL. He died for the whole world. And he did this as we were enemies. Much more, we will NEVER perish when He saves us.

hi friend, you know when people say calvinism it's automatically seen as some sort of evil cult or a name that is that of the devil, well at least by some it is

It's far from the truth, you may not be aware but there is some long serving Calvinists here, who have also debated some of there view points with a none extremist view for a long time here

I know of one calvinists here who has shown me many good understanding of scripture and is tolerated by many people here, a lot of scripture he has showed me with good understanding had nothing to do with the number one doctrine in calvinism that people can't agree upon.

I only wish you to understand as there are people here who wull pull people into indoctrination who end up becoming legalists, I wouldnt want that for you 🙂☕

 

[uncle_mike]

For many years people have debated the Biblical doctrine of Security. Some have called it “once in grace, always in grace”, others “once saved, always saved”. However it is referred to, the doctrine of “The Security of the Believer” is the teaching that when a person accepts the Grace of God (i.e., by repentance and faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ), that person experiences a re-birth. The ‘old’ man dies (as far as the spirit is concerned) and is reborn as a new creation in Christ. The Holy Spirit seals this re-born spirit as a pledge or guarantee that the redemption that has begun in that person WILL come to fruition. This is SECURITY. God cannot lie. He does not lie. He will not lie. Ephesians 4:30 states, “And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.”

Now whether one translates the word "eis" concretely with emphasis on direction and motion, with reference to time and duration, or in the abstract as “with reference to”, the ‘sealing’ points to ‘the day of redemption’. This is when Jesus returns and believers receive their glorified bodies (full redemption). Of course, when we become like Jesus, glorified body and all, we will not have to worry about a ‘sin’ nature for all eternity. But what about between the ‘day’ one believes and the ‘day’ of redemption? If this soul should decide to “jump out” of the hand of God, rebel and forsake his “Christian” walk, then what happens to the SEAL OF THE HOLY SPIRIT. The idea behind this SEAL is an impress for privacy, secrecy, security, and authority. Kings sealed with a signet scrolls, letters, writings that were not to be read except at the appointed time and by the appointed individual. Daniel was told, “Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.” That means ‘forget it boys’, you’re not going to find out “till the time of the end.”

The point is simply this: The seal of the Holy Spirit (which protects the spirit of man) guarantees the safe and secure delivery of that soul to the day of redemption (of that soul). If, for ANY reason, that soul is not brought unto “the day of redemption”, then either the seal (Holy Spirit of God) has been broken (overpowered by a greater power -- which does not exist), or God simply lied. Neither is the case. Thus salvation and security are inseparable. One cannot have one without the other. If you are genuinely saved, then you are secure. And if you have not security, then you have not salvation.

If one is not ETERNALLY saved, then he is not saved at all.

This Thread is a long read. It's more of a comedy than anything else. One side claiming you need to "hear," "follow," "abide." The other side saying they are "hearing," "following, "abiding." Kind of looks like the same argument presented in 2 formats. Are Christians really this petty?

 

[NightTwister]

Of course calvinists pick and choose what portions of God's Word they want to believe and ignore anything that doesn't fit in with their preconceived ideas as they always read in to scripture what they want it to say...

Bearing false witness again... Looks like Jimmy only believes in 9 commandments.

 

[JimmyTheLock]

despite one or two doctrines that Christians can't agree upon with Calvinist, calvinist are truly devoted to the lord and believe with a sincere heart, but anyhow seeing as most of the tine your quotes are confrontational bordering on extremism I doubt you'll see that, because hypocrites like you can't see the plank in there own eye.

And that plank has been full of distasteful doctrines.

That's pretty funny... nothing like some goof old fashioned calvinist double speak!

The false doctrines of the un-repentant murderer john calvin, are not scripture unless on is a cherry picker... which is the only way one can hold to calvinist doctrine is to only believe certain passages and ignore the rest of God's Word.

Much more, we will NEVER perish when He saves us.

That's ONLY applicable to those that abide IN Christ and endure to the end doing so... according to Jesus.

 

[Fundaamental]

This Thread is a long read. It's more of a comedy than anything else. One side claiming you need to "hear," "follow," "abide." The other side saying they are "hearing," "following, "abiding." Kind of looks like the same argument presented in 2 formats. Are Christians really this petty?

hmmm maybe you haven't seen eternal security as something that means more than petty 😊☕

 

[Fundaamental]

That's pretty funny... nothing like some goof old fashioned calvinist double speak! View attachment 258866

The false doctrines of the un-repentant murderer john calvin, are not scripture unless on is a cherry picker... which is the only way one can hold to calvinist doctrine is to only believe certain passages and ignore the rest of God's Word.

View attachment 258865






That's ONLY applicable to those that abide IN Christ and endure to the end doing so... according to Jesus.

hmm are you sure like you haven't found the perfect excuse to be an up-caster, it generally seems to be your thing 😊☕

 

[uncle_mike]

hmmm maybe you haven't seen eternal security as something that means more than petty 😊☕

Maybe it is because all throughout the Canon there's a Warning alongside with each Promise that seems to be ignored.

 

[Fundaamental]

Maybe it is because all throughout the Canon there's a Warning alongside with each Promise that seems to be ignored.

by whom ? The imaginary saved person, I take it your saved and you don't ignore them di you , ?

Besides I thought you said that argument was petty 🥱

 

[wattie]

Yeah, satan teaches that God doesn't want everyone to be saved... in spite of evidence in scripture that proved this calvinist doctrine as being completely false.

Of course calvinists pick and choose what portions of God's Word they want to believe and ignore anything that doesn't fit in with their preconceived ideas as they always read in to scripture what they want it to say... rather than allowing the whole counsel of God to correct their faulty fake gospel. View attachment 258854

The Father sovereignly decided to make man in His own Image which is why all men have free will. He said in His Word than we are predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ (Romans 8:29), and we are to be followers of God as dear children (Ephesians 5:1)

God's Word says man is without excuse (Romans 1:20), the grace that brings salvation has come upon all men (Titus 2:11-13)

God's Word says it's not God's will that any perish and He wants all to come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9), and He has commanded men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30), and has given every man faith (Romans 12:3)

Jesus said if He be lifted up He would draw all men until Himself (John 12:32), and Jesus has tasted of death for every man (Hebrews 2:9)

In light of all these scriptures, we can say for sure that limited atonement taught by John Calvin is false doctrine and is in opposition to what God says.

So... get ready to hear excuses from the dark side o0n why the scripture above should be ignored! View attachment 258855

Well I believe in eternal security but am not a Calvinist, so I would also argue against limited atonement.. and the P should be preservation of the saved..not perseverance of the saints.

We have free will to believe on Jesus Christ for salvation, but not to leave Him after salvation. How does that work?

Because free will to accept Jesus' conviction on the soul for salvation isn't a 'work' on our part. Believing on the Lord Jesus Christ is initiated and allowed by Him.

After salvation, we don't have the power to leave Him.. because we don't own our salvation. He does. He saves us..not us saving ourselves.

God won't leave me, but I can leave God is illogical and ignores the indwelling of the Holy Spirit on a saved person's soul.

Salvation is actually a physical possession. Not something actually outside you. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit can't be undone by lowly us.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The priesthood needs to be glorifying our Father by teaching His Word diligently and truthfully.

There is no Levitical priesthood at present, and the Roman Catholic priesthood is unscriptural.

But -- as you will recall -- the priests were the enemies of Christ before His crucifixion. So they were not teaching God's Word diligently or truthfully. However after Pentecost, many priests were saved. And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith. (Acts 6:7) .

 

[Nehemiah6]

This Thread is a long read. It's more of a comedy than anything else. One side claiming you need to "hear," "follow," "abide." The other side saying they are "hearing," "following, "abiding." Kind of looks like the same argument presented in 2 formats. Are Christians really this petty?

I imagine you are a Christian, but your allegation about pettiness is incorrect.

There is a very critical issue under discussion. The Bible either teaches the eternal security of the believer, or it does not. There is no middle ground. The genuine Christian will always be abiding in Christ, since Christ Himself will always be abiding within him. However the false professor will not have Christ within, so there will be no abiding.

Furthermore, there are numerous passages in the New Testament which clearly and plainly teach that nothing can separate the believer from God and Christ. Not even his own sinning or waywardness. Why? Because eternal life is a FREE GIFT from God, and God does not reverse His free gifts. Indeed He reinforces that free gift with the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the gift of Christ Himself. Then He imputes righteousness to the believer, and the Holy Spirit regenerates the believer, and also "baptizes" that person into the Body of Christ. Regeneration is the same as being born again, and no one who is born again can be "unborn" (just like no baby can return to his mother's womb).

There may be some who are unsure of their salvation and they need to know that salvation is of the Lord. They have done nothing to deserve it, or earn it, and they can do nothing to lose it. WHICH IS NOT A LICENSE TO SIN, BUT AN INCENTIVE TO BE RIGHTEOUS IN EVERY WAY.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Well I believe in eternal security but am not a Calvinist, so I would also argue against limited atonement.. and the P should be preservation of the saved.. not perseverance of the saints.

TULIP is a false gospel. But when we get past that there is much in the Westminster Confession of Faith with which all Christians can agree. The whole problem with Calvinism is an unreasonable focus on the sovereignty of God, whereas the Gospel is all about the grace of God.

 

[uncle_mike]

by whom ? The imaginary saved person, I take it your saved and you don't ignore them di you , ?

Besides I thought you said that argument was petty 🥱

I also do not follow any Doctrine related to those Verses knowing how they must be interpreted, either way, to appease my opinion on this matter.

 

[uncle_mike]

I imagine you are a Christian, but your allegation about pettiness is incorrect.

There is a very critical issue under discussion. The Bible either teaches the eternal security of the believer, or it does not. There is no middle ground. The genuine Christian will always be abiding in Christ, since Christ Himself will always be abiding within him. However the false professor will not have Christ within, so there will be no abiding.

Furthermore, there are numerous passages in the New Testament which clearly and plainly teach that nothing can separate the believer from God and Christ. Not even his own sinning or waywardness. Why? Because eternal life is a FREE GIFT from God, and God does not reverse His free gifts. Indeed He reinforces that free gift with the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the gift of Christ Himself. Then He imputes righteousness to the believer, and the Holy Spirit regenerates the believer, and also "baptizes" that person into the Body of Christ. Regeneration is the same as being born again, and no one who is born again can be "unborn" (just like no baby can return to his mother's womb).

There may be some who are unsure of their salvation and they need to know that salvation is of the Lord. They have done nothing to deserve it, or earn it, and they can do nothing to lose it. WHICH IS NOT A LICENSE TO SIN, BUT AN INCENTIVE TO BE RIGHTEOUS IN EVERY WAY.

What is critical about it? It seems to me if You are hearing God, You are following God, and will have no issue towards being secure in Your Salvation. It's when we try to remove hearing God to be following God that seems like the big problem. Jesus did say His sheep are hearing and following. If we're His sheep, we are hearing and following Him. You have to be Saved to keep hearing Him, don't You? If You are no longer hearing Him, I would say that is when You're in trouble.

 

[Fundaamental]

I also do not follow any Doctrine related to those Verses knowing how they must be interpreted, either way, to appease my opinion on this matter.

it would be helpful if you would share how they should be interpreted, at least that way we step into a level playing field to begin with mike,

I don't mind discussing this with you and maybe we can reach a level playing playing field where we both see each others stance as important,

As the trouble with confrontation is someone always become the villain


I don't like being the winner takes all and I like to think maybe you could understand this.

I only took part in this thread because for once I saw a well put together opening post on the importance of security for the believer.

I did have my doubts whether it would turn into something else, but I feal there is a genuine reason for this discussion, as it's a welcoming gesture for all to take part, as these discussions have quite frequently started of as legalistic,

 

[uncle_mike]

it would be helpful if you would share how they should be interpreted, at least that way we step into a level playing field to begin with mike,

I don't mind discussing this with you and maybe we can reach a level playing playing field where we both see each others stance as important,

As the trouble with confrontation is someone always become the villain


I don't like being the winner takes all and I like to think maybe you could understand this.

I only took part in this thread because for once I saw a well put together opening post on the importance of security for the believer.

I did have my doubts whether it would turn into something else, but I feal there is a genuine reason for this discussion, as it's a welcoming gesture for all to take part, as these discussions have quite frequently started of as legalistic,

Those Verses are written in plain Language that say His sheep hear and follow and I give to them Eternal Life. There is no need for some divine interpretation here. They say exactly what should be happening.

 

[Nehemiah6]

If You are no longer hearing Him, I would say that is when You're in trouble.

Yes, you are in trouble, but you are not losing your salvation. You are not in fellowship with God, and there are remedies which God provides. See the first epistle of John.

 

[Fundaamental]

Those Verses are written in plain Language that say His sheep hear and follow and I give to them Eternal Life. There is no need for some divine interpretation here. They say exactly what should be happening.

and what should be happening Mike.

That they should follow or they follow because they hear his voice

 

[uncle_mike]

Yes, you are in trouble, but you are not losing your salvation. You are not in fellowship with God, and there are remedies which God provides. See the first epistle of John.

I do not recall making a direct statement about losing salvation. I will say there is a distinction between practicing sin and sinning because we're going to. Since there's a warning over practicing sin, I believe they will lose it.

For it is impossible, in the case of those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since they are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt.

A sinner is unable to have shared in the Holy Spirit and the goodness of this "gift."