Orthodox Jew answers a few questions

[Aviva]

Jewish scholars recognized that the KJB has done an excellent job of translating: "We are, it is hardly needful to say, deeply grateful for the works of our non-Jewish predecessors, such as the Authorised Version with its admirable diction, which can never be surpassed..." (from the Preface to the 1917 edition).

You know I do actually look this stuff up. They appreciated the effort that went into the KJV and did use it as a basis for an English Tanakh.

However...

They also revised, changed and removed anything they felt were errors or mistranslations i.e. hell, luxifer etc...

Many other Jewish scholars disagreed and made other translations.

I acknowledged that the Christian bible and the Jewish Tanakh are similar... they just aren't identical. Unless you've read a Jewish Tanakh you aren't in a position to dispute.

 

[uncle_mike]

This thread reads like a Heavy-Weight boxing match.

 

[iamsoandso]

This thread reads like a Heavy-Weight boxing match.

It has always been that way. We coin phrases like "back in the sword days" in reference to when that's all they had to fight each other with. Every show on the TV is about someone arguing or fighting with someone from Popeye fighting with Bluto to the cowboys and the Indians. G-d said "the imagination of our hearts was evil from our youth" https://biblehub.com/interlinear/genesis/8-21.htm It wont always be that way though in the world to come we will beat our swords into plowshares and war no more so we wont always look like a heavy weight fight,lol https://biblehub.com/interlinear/isaiah/2-4.htm As for today though the friction and the fighting is all we seem to imagine in our hearts,,it's an odd thing that we can imagine to fly and eventually make an airplane. We look at the Moon and after pondering it for years eventually end up there. We must be a really powerful and complex creation to be able to imagine everything from phones,electronics, guns and such and build them one after the other but the shame is that we never pondered loving one another or to do good. We are evil from our youth it's all our heart's imagined and we could have imagined in our hearts to not done evil but we did not.

 

[PennEd]

This thread reads like a Heavy-Weight boxing match.

I bet the Ranch on Jesus knocking out Talmudic Judaism without breaking a sweat!

 

[Aviva]

This thread reads like a Heavy-Weight boxing match.

You've clearly never encountered evangelical right wing Christianity before. I'm just waiting to be blamed for killing Jesus or owning all the banks and I think we've covered all the bases.

 

[PennEd]

You've clearly never encountered evangelical right wing Christianity before. I'm just waiting to be blamed for killing Jesus or owning all the banks and I think we've covered all the bases.

Well you've obviously never encountered evangelical Christianity before. (adding "right wing" is just a tactic used by those who can't argue a point effectively, and is intended to render any thoughts by the "right winger' null and void. Typical tactic of a leftist).

Otherwise you'd know that Christians believe we've ALL put Jesus on that cross and killed Him!
all our sin, YOURS and mine, made it necessary for God to become flesh and die in our place, to pay for the sin debt you can NEVER repay.

So accept Him and live!

 

[Eli1]

This thread reads like a Heavy-Weight boxing match.

Yes and trolling gameplay here is a page out of Harry and Megan‘s book.

”Look at me while I say all these things about you BUT respect my privacy“

 

[Aviva]

Well you've obviously never encountered evangelical Christianity before. (adding "right wing" is just a tactic used by those who can't argue a point effectively, and is intended to render any thoughts by the "right winger' null and void. Typical tactic of a leftist).

He proceeds to denigrate "leftists" after being angry at the term "right wing". Your lack of self awareness and hypocrisy is amazing.

Anyone who knows me would laugh at the idea that I'm some leftist.

Otherwise you'd know that Christians believe we've ALL put Jesus on that cross and killed Him!
all our sin, YOURS and mine, made it necessary for God to become flesh and die in our place, to pay for the sin debt you can NEVER repay.

So accept Him and live!

I'm aware of the party line, I just don't agree because I believe such a postulate contradicts the Torah.

 

[ZNP]

Well you've obviously never encountered evangelical Christianity before. (adding "right wing" is just a tactic used by those who can't argue a point effectively, and is intended to render any thoughts by the "right winger' null and void. Typical tactic of a leftist).

Otherwise you'd know that Christians believe we've ALL put Jesus on that cross and killed Him!
all our sin, YOURS and mine, made it necessary for God to become flesh and die in our place, to pay for the sin debt you can NEVER repay.

So accept Him and live!

Yes, they would prefer to cling to the blood of bulls and goats which are offered every year to cleanse them of sin, but then, they don't even do that. They claim to hold to the Torah, yet have all but done away with Leviticus. But it is worse, Exodus, Numbers and Deuteronomy are all about the land that God is giving them as an inheritance and yet they ignore that as well.

We understand "orthodox" as one who holds to the Bible as the word of God. That is not what they mean, they hold to "orthodox" as one who holds to the traditions that have twisted and contorted the word over the last 2,000 years to justify them not holding to the Torah.

 

[Nehemiah6]

...they hold to "orthodox" as one who holds to the traditions that have twisted and contorted the word over the last 2,000 years to justify them not holding to the Torah.

Unfortunately God says that they have been spiritually blinded because of unbelief. However, there are many who are turning to Christ in Israel.

 

[ZNP]

Unfortunately God says that they have been spiritually blinded because of unbelief. However, there are many who are turning to Christ in Israel.

Likewise in Iran and Egypt.

 

[Aviva]

Unfortunately God says that they have been spiritually blinded because of unbelief. However, there are many who are turning to Christ in Israel.

What does "spiritually blinded" mean?

 

[PennEd]

Your lack of self awareness and hypocrisy is amazing.

Pot. Meet Kettle!

being angry at the term "right wing".

No anger. Just descriptive of leftists tactics. Since you employ them, it is logical to believe you are one. If not great!

I'm aware of the party line, I just don't agree because I believe such a postulate contradicts the Torah.

We've already established you don't believe the Torah, by not yet posting an acceptable translation that negates my point, that breaking Laws beside murder and adultery results in death.

 

[Nehemiah6]

What does "spiritually blinded" mean?

Isaiah prophesied about the spiritual blinding of unbelieving Jews by God in Isaiah 6:9,10:And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

This was said with reference to the future unbelief of Jews who refused to accept Yeshua haMashiach (Jesus the Christ) as their Lord and Savior. The Lord Jesus Christ quoted this in Mark 4:11,12: And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them. (see also Matthew 13:13,14).

However, God says that this blindness will last only "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in'". After that he says "all Israel shall be saved" (Romans 11:25,26). That would be a reference to all twelve tribes of Jacob, since all Jews will not be saved at the Second Coming of Christ. Apparently only one third of Jewry worldwide will be saved according to Zechariah 13:8,9: And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

 

[Aviva]

Pot. Meet Kettle!


No anger. Just descriptive of leftists tactics. Since you employ them, it is logical to believe you are one. If not great!


We've already established you don't believe the Torah, by not yet posting an acceptable translation that negates my point, that breaking Laws beside murder and adultery results in death.

You are just combative and not interested in anything but attacking me. I'm ignoring you now.

 

[uncle_mike]

You are just combative and not interested in anything but attacking me. I'm ignoring you now.

Many Jewish People I know personally rely mainly on the interpretations of their Rabbi. They accept it almost equally to God explaining itself. If Your Rabbi, and other Rabbi's you are aware of, suddenly claimed Yeshua did fulfill the requirements and is the Messiah. Would You believe them?

 

[PennEd]

you are just combative and not interested in anything but attacking me

Pot. I reintroduce you to kettle.

I'm ignoring you now.

You've ignored everything any Christian has said here.

At first i thought maybe you were an honest skeptic. Now, I think you're closer to an ATT loving troll.

Hope something we've said here activates down the road.

Wondering if your behavior is what your sister in law had in mind.

 

[ZNP]

Pot. I reintroduce you to kettle.


You've ignored everything any Christian has said here.

At first i thought maybe you were an honest skeptic. Now, I think you're closer to an ATT loving troll.

Hope something we've said here activates down the road.

Wondering if your behavior is what your sister in law had in mind.

In summary, what insight has she shared on the "orthodox" jewish perspective on the Law and the Prophets?

Now I thought that "orthodox" meant Hasidic, but she has qualified that, in her opinion they are "ultra orthodox" whereas she is "orthodox". I have yet to see her share on any word from the Bible, nor do I have any idea where her beliefs differ from reformed Jews.

Based on what she has said about Israel and about living in Toronto it seems to me safe to say she isn't a Zionist.

 

[Aviva]

Isaiah prophesied about the spiritual blinding of unbelieving Jews by God in Isaiah 6:9,10:And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

G-d is telling Isaiah he is not to "smarten up" the people of Judah and Israel. It does not say G-d blinded them, they blinded themselves.

https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/15937/jewish/Chapter-6.htm#lt=primary

G-d is just and does not make people incapable of making the right choices.

This was said with reference to the future unbelief of Jews who refused to accept Yeshua haMashiach (Jesus the Christ) as their Lord and Savior. The Lord Jesus Christ quoted this in Mark 4:11,12:

And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables: That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them. (see also Matthew 13:13,14).

That's nice, I don't believe in the bible.

However, God says that this blindness will last only "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in'". After that he says "all Israel shall be saved" (Romans 11:25,26). That would be a reference to all twelve tribes of Jacob, since all Jews will not be saved at the Second Coming of Christ. Apparently only one third of Jewry worldwide will be saved according to Zechariah 13:8,9: And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

What reason do I have to believe this has anything to do with Jesus/Christianity and not say, the holocaust, or other massacres of Jews throughout the centuries?

 

[Aviva]

Many Jewish People I know personally rely mainly on the interpretations of their Rabbi. They accept it almost equally to God explaining itself. If Your Rabbi, and other Rabbi's you are aware of, suddenly claimed Yeshua did fulfill the requirements and is the Messiah. Would You believe them?

We follow the Torah and the Talmud. I do not (nor most Jews) speak ancient Hebrew therefore we certainly rely on our scholars for guidance. Do you have evidence that we put them on some sort of parity with G-d or is this just your uninformed opinion? Rabbi's make mistakes and good ones will freely admit that. I don't always agree with them but we do not have the option of disagreeing with the Torah or the Talmud.