The Security Of The Believer

[The_Watchers_2017]

lol.. Turn away 180 degree

Israel was told to turn away from sin and back to god because god saved them

thats different than us, who turned away from death and turned to God.

So you claim God changed when He claims He never did change.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I don't disagree with your assessment of the two. My point is that implicit in a Godly sorrow is the activity of God.

Not everyone who God tries to bring to sorrow will come to sorrow..

So while i agree, it is from God.. we still must chose to read to what god is showing us..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

So you claim God changed when He claims He never did change.

Nope

in the OT he spoke of a church, a nation

In the NT he speaks to induviduals.

The OT spoke of a law. Which everyone had to fulfill..

In the nt he speaks of the cross. Which he fulfilled everything.

Your trying to make sanctification be a requirment for justification..

Thats the same mistake the jews made.. They crucified Christ because he told them they were wrong.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Nope

in the OT he spoke of a church, a nation

In the NT he speaks to induviduals.

The OT spoke of a law. Which everyone had to fulfill..

In the nt he speaks of the cross. Which he fulfilled everything.

Your trying to make sanctification be a requirment for justification..

Thats the same mistake the jews made.. They crucified Christ because he told them they were wrong.

Really, each individual had to obey 613 Laws and were judged individually. Each individual had to supply their own sacrifice to the priests. And then once a year the High Priest entered the Holy of Holies for the Nation.

You literally have no idea what you spew and continue doing so as if you're the expert in spewing out baloney.

 

[Cameron143]

Not everyone who God tries to bring to sorrow will come to sorrow..

So while i agree, it is from God.. we still must chose to read to what god is showing us..

I actually believe everyone to whom God grants sorrow will repent. I also believe if God doesn't grant the sorrow, the sorrow will not be over the offense our sin is to a holy God, but merely a dread of the consequences of our actions.
Peter experienced the form; Judas, the latter.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I disagree. Where God is working, He is bringing about change.
God is always at work in the believer in some fashion, whether it is realized or not.

God is willing that non should perish. He wished to gather jerusalem as a mother hen, but they were not willing.

god will not force us against our will

I actually believe everyone to whom God grants sorrow will repent. I also believe if God doesn't grant the sorrow, the sorrow will not be over the offense our sin is to a holy God, but merely a dread of the consequences of our actions.
Peter experienced the form; Judas, the latter.

If this was true, then everyone would be saved.

Again, god is willing that non should perish but all would come to life.

I believe those who do repent and trust him and recieve his gift.. And he grants them repentance.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Really, each individual had to obey 613 Laws and were judged individually. Each individual had to supply their own sacrifice to the priests. And then once a year the High Priest entered the Holy of Holies for the Nation.

You literally have no idea what you spew and continue doing so as if you're the expert in spewing out baloney.

Dude, when are you going to actually start discuss the word and stop tearing people down?

When God told the NATION to turn from her sins, He told the nation. Not induviduals.. Not all the people had sin..

Daniel confessed the sins of his nation in Dan 9, yet it was not daniel that sinned against God causing them to be punished.

Don‘t attack people for doing somethign you yourself refuse to do..it makes you look bad

 

[Cameron143]

God is willing that non should perish. He wished to gather jerusalem as a mother hen, but they were not willing.

god will not force us against our will


If this was true, then everyone would be saved.

Again, god is willing that non should perish but all would come to life.

I believe those who do repent and trust him and recieve his gift.. And he grants them repentance.

I don't believe God compels anyone. But He does work in His people's lives to help them to understand what choice is best and why. And the very fact that He grants a Godly sorrow that works repentance...a change in direction...is an example of how He works.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I don't believe God compels anyone. But He does work in His people's lives to help them to understand what choice is best and why. And the very fact that He grants a Godly sorrow that works repentance...a change in direction...is an example of how He works.

Yes I agree

but again, Not everyone will repent..

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Dude, when are you going to actually start discuss the word and stop tearing people down?

When God told the NATION to turn from her sins, He told the nation. Not induviduals.. Not all the people had sin..

Daniel confessed the sins of his nation in Dan 9, yet it was not daniel that sinned against God causing them to be punished.

Don‘t attack people for doing somethign you yourself refuse to do..it makes you look bad

Does not matter.

Each person still had to bring sacrifice to be offered for sin.

That is individual all day long.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Does not matter.

Each person still had to bring sacrifice to be offered for sin.

That is individual all day long.

1 And the LORD spoke unto Moses, saying:

here is God addressing the INDIVIDUAL:
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying: If any one shall sin through error, in any of the things which the LORD hath commanded not to be done, and shall do any one of them:

here is God Commanding what do if the individual sins:
4 And he shall bring the bullock unto the door of the tent of meeting before the LORD; and he shall lay his hand upon the head of the bullock, and kill the bullock before the LORD

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Dude, when are you going to actually start discuss the word and stop tearing people down?

so, you make blank statements like there was no such thing as "Repentance" in Old Testament, no individual sins only Nation sins, what Repentance actually means, and in our other discussion said if the Jews knew Jesus was God they would never have killed Him, and there's another few but would have to go search for them.................

and when.........

i provide proofs, i am now tearing you down.

i would suggest then, Get Used to It, until You learn the Holy Word of God.

 

[Mem]

I see.

The original statement was that Jesus did not say something..

that's why I was confused by your statement.. sorry

It was a perfectly understandable mistake considering I missed to quote only the portion that my comment was referencing, and was mostly referencing my sin, however notwithstanding the lack in any other, since there is no one that has not missed. I just liked the latter statement enough that I couldn't myself to exclude it, so I'm not sorry.

 

[Romans34]

John 3:16, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." [Present tense]

John 3:36, "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." [Present tense]

John 5:24, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." [Present tense]
'death' and 'life' are states of being. One who has passed from 'death' to 'life' (and that 'life' being everlasting / eternal), cannot pass back into 'death'; otherwise, everlasting life was never had.

John 11:25-26, "Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" [ shall . . . NEVER . . . die ]

Romans 6:23, "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." [ NEVER ENDS ]

Romans 8:1, "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." [ NO condemnation - NO damnation ]

Romans 10:9-10, 13, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. ... For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." [ SHALL be - WILL be ]

1 John 5:9-13, "If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." [Present tense]

The fact remains that if at any time you HAVE (present tense) EVERLASTING / ETERNAL LIFE (and you KNOW it), and at ANY TIME AFTERWARDS you don't have it, then you never had EVERLASTING / ETERNAL LIFE!

If you are promised that you shall NOT perish and shall NEVER die, and then one day you die / perish, then that was a lie! And I'm absolutely certain that Jesus nor His Holy Spirit EVER lied!

 

[mailmandan]

There is only security when one Abides IN Christ according to Jesus (see John 15)

The Greek word for “abide” is "meno" which means to remain, tarry, not to depart, continue to be present, which is the mark of a genuine believer. This is not something that only elite saints do.

1 John 4:13 - By this we know that we abide in Him, and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit... 15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

Judas Iscariot is a good example of one who did not abide and in John 13:10-11, we get to the heart of the matter of why he did not abide. He was unclean, unlike the 11 remaining disciples who were clean. Jesus also referred to Judas as a devil in John 6:70.

1 John 3:6
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not

Sinneth not (ουχ αμαρτανε). Linear present (linear μενων, keeps on abiding) active indicative of αμαρτανω, "does not keep on sinning." For μενω (abide) see 1 John 2:6; John 15:4-10.

Whosoever sinneth (ο αμαρτανων). Present (linear) active articular participle like μενων above, "the one who keeps on sinning" (lives a life of sin, not mere occasional acts of sin as αμαρτησας, aorist active participle, would mean).

Hath not seen him (ουχ εωρακεν αυτον). Perfect active indicative of οραω. The habit of sin is proof that one has not the vision or the knowledge (εγνωκεν, perfect active also) of Christ. He means, of course, spiritual vision and spiritual knowledge, not the literal sense of οραω in John 1:18; John 20:29.

1 John 3 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

1 Corinthians 15:34
Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.

Paul teaches us that sinning is unacceptable behavior, and although Christians are not completely free of sin (1 John 1:8-10; 2:1) Christians have been made free from sin (Romans 6:22) from the law of sin and death. (Romans 8:2)

He that sins... is of the devil...

The one who practices sin is of the devil. (NASB) If only those who have never sinned at all are not of the devil, then we would all be of the devil. (Romans 3:23; 1 John 1:8-10)

1 John 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil

He that doeth sin (ο ποιων την αμαρτιαν). "He that keeps on doing sin" (the habit of sin).

Of the devil (εκ του διαβολου). In spiritual parentage as Jesus said of the Pharisees in John 8:44. When one acts like the devil he shows that he is not a true child of God.

Sinneth from the beginning (απ' αρχης αμαρτανε). Linear progressive present active indicative, "he has been sinning from the beginning" of his career as the devil. This is his normal life and those who imitate him become his spiritual children.

That he might destroy (ινα λυση). Purpose clause with ινα and the first aorist active subjunctive of λυω. This purpose (εις τουτο) Jesus had and has. There is eternal conflict, with final victory over Satan certain.

1 John 3 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

John 8:34
Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Every one that committeth sin is the bondservant of sin (πας ο ποιων την αμαρτιαν δουλος εστιν [της αμαρτιασ]). The Western class omits της αμαρτιας (sin), but that is the idea anyhow. Note the use of ποιων (present active participle, continuous habit or practice), not ποιησας (aorist active participle for single act), precisely as in 1 John 3:4-8. Note also John 3:21 for ο ποιων την αληθειαν (the one who practices the truth). Sin, like the worst narcotic, is habit forming. Hence the problem today for criminologists for paroled or pardoned criminals nearly always go back to crime, sink again into sin, the slaves of sin. Xenophon has this notion of the slavery of sin (Memor. IV. 5. 3). So Paul clearly in Romans 6:17; Romans 6:20 "slaves of sin" (δουλο της αμαρτιας).

John 8 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

1 John 2:4
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

The Greek word for "keep" is "tereo" which simply means guard, observe, watch over.

Strong's Greek: 5083. τηρέω (téreó) -- to watch over, to guard

1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have come to know Him, (already know Him/already saved/demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. *This is descriptive of genuine believers. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep (guard, observe, watch over) His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. *This is descriptive of unbelievers.

This does not mean flawlessly obey all of God's commandments 100% of the time and merit eternal life based on our works. That is a big fail for all of us. (Ecclesiastes 7:20; Romans 3:23; 1 John 1:8-10)

1 John 1:6
if we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

1 John 1:6 - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. Walking in darkness is descriptive of children of the devil. Walking in the light is descriptive of children of God.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. In vs. 11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. *Notice that "walks in darkness, hates his brother" is descriptive of "children of the devil."

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I actually believe everyone to whom God grants sorrow will repent. I also believe if God doesn't grant the sorrow, the sorrow will not be over the offense our sin is to a holy God, but merely a dread of the consequences of our actions.
Peter experienced the form; Judas, the latter.

I believe everyone who repents God grants sorrow..

Peter was saved. Judas was not.

Thats why peter had Godly sorrow. And Judas had human sorrow

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

I don't believe God compels anyone. But He does work in His people's lives to help them to understand what choice is best and why. And the very fact that He grants a Godly sorrow that works repentance...a change in direction...is an example of how He works.

before a person is saved. they are not his people. They have yet to be adopted.. (john 1: 12)

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Does not matter.

Each person still had to bring sacrifice to be offered for sin.

That is individual all day long.

whatever.

Keep trying to earn your salvation. Good luck

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

so, you make blank statements like there was no such thing as "Repentance" in Old Testament, no individual sins only Nation sins, what Repentance actually means, and in our other discussion said if the Jews knew Jesus was God they would never have killed Him, and there's another few but would have to go search for them.................

and when.........

i provide proofs, i am now tearing you down.

i would suggest then, Get Used to It, until You learn the Holy Word of God.

Abraham believed God and God accounted to him as rightiousness.

People were not saved because of animal sacrifice. Many gave sacrifice and never actually believed in God. Namely the high priest who entered the most holy place while Jesus hung on the cross.

You do not provide proofs my friend. You give me your opinions.

Don't attack people because they trust God. They trust His work. they trust his promises.

when you attack them you attack God.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

whatever.

Keep trying to earn your salvation. Good luck

Read Mailmandan's post.

No one ever said a word about earning anything but you.