Does GOD help everyone who prays?

[JohnB]

The poor must go about naked, without any clothing.
They harvest food for others while they themselves are starving.
They press out olive oil without being allowed to taste it,
and they tread in the winepress as they suffer from thirst.
The groans of the dying rise from the city,
and the wounded cry for help,
yet God ignores their moaning. Job 24:10

Are we saying, then, that God was unfair? Of course not! For God said to Moses,
“I will show mercy to anyone I choose,
and I will show compassion to anyone I choose.”i
So it is God who decides to show mercy. We can neither choose it nor work for it. Romans 9:14

I find verses like these to understand.

 

[Fundaamental]

It depends how you define the word help, it could be he's helping by not answering some prayers 👍

You know John you do bring some good discussions..

It could also be that those that he chooses to ignore could also be getting helped.

 

[ThyKingdomComeSoon]

Hello John,
No, GOD does not help everyone who prays to the Father, Jesus was clear about this;

Mrk 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them,and ye shall have them.
Mrk 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

There are conditions for prayers to be answered. Many other verses as well but I leave others to quote the proper verses if they will.

Blessings.

 

[Dino246]

I find verses like these to understand.

Did you miss a word there?

 

[Nehemiah6]

and the wounded cry for help,
yet God ignores their moaning. Job 24:10

That should be Job 24:12. Whichever translation you may be using, that last clause has been mistranslated, and therefore is incorrect. In the KJB here is what is said: Men groan from out of the city, and the soul of the wounded crieth out: yet God layeth not folly to them.

What does that mean? The NIV comes close to what is in the Hebrew: But God charges no one with wrongdoing. Actually this is a rather difficult verse to interpret.

 

[SomeDisciple]

The poor must go about naked, without any clothing.
They harvest food for others while they themselves are starving.
They press out olive oil without being allowed to taste it,
and they tread in the winepress as they suffer from thirst.
The groans of the dying rise from the city,
and the wounded cry for help,
yet God ignores their moaning. Job 24:10

Compare this to what Elihu says later:

9Men cry out under great oppression;
they plead for relief from the arm of the mighty.
10But no one asks, ‘Where is God my Maker,
who gives us songs in the night,
11who teaches us more than the beasts of the earth
and makes us wiser than the birds of the air?’
12There they cry out, but He does not answer,
because of the pride of evil men.
13Surely God does not listen to empty pleas,
and the Almighty does not take note of it.
14How much less, then, when you say that you do not see Him,
that your case is before Him and you must wait for Him,
15and further, that in His anger He has not punished
or taken much notice of folly!
16So Job opens his mouth in vain
and multiplies words without knowledge.”

 

[Eli1]

I agree with Fundamendal on post #2, but the way you have stated your view in the end John it implies that we have no free-will, and i'm not on the Predeterminism camp. I'm on the free-will camp.

 

[JohnB]

Compare this to what Elihu says later:

9Men cry out under great oppression;
they plead for relief from the arm of the mighty.
10But no one asks, ‘Where is God my Maker,
who gives us songs in the night,
11who teaches us more than the beasts of the earth
and makes us wiser than the birds of the air?’
12There they cry out, but He does not answer,
because of the pride of evil men.
13Surely God does not listen to empty pleas,
and the Almighty does not take note of it.
14How much less, then, when you say that you do not see Him,
that your case is before Him and you must wait for Him,
15and further, that in His anger He has not punished
or taken much notice of folly!
16So Job opens his mouth in vain
and multiplies words without knowledge.”

Yet what Job said is true.....the wicked do prosper while those in need go without.

 

[JohnB]

That should be Job 24:12. Whichever translation you may be using, that last clause has been mistranslated, and therefore is incorrect. In the KJB here is what is said: Men groan from out of the city, and the soul of the wounded crieth out: yet God layeth not folly to them.

What does that mean? The NIV comes close to what is in the Hebrew: But God charges no one with wrongdoing. Actually this is a rather difficult verse to interpret.

That is what is hard to understand. Many suffer under the rich, yet GOD does not punish the rich.

 

[SomeDisciple]

^^^^For context: Job had just said this-

1Then Job answered:
2“Even today my complaint is bitter.
His hand is heavy despite my groaning.
3If only I knew where to find Him,
so that I could go to His seat.
4I would plead my case before Him
and fill my mouth with arguments.
5I would learn how He would answer,
and consider what He would say.
6Would He contend with me in His great power?
No, He would certainly take note of me.
7Then an upright man could reason with Him,
and I would be delivered forever from my Judge.
8If I go east, He is not there,
and if I go west, I cannot find Him.
9When He is at work in the north, I cannot behold Him;
when He turns to the south, I cannot see Him.

...

1“Why does the Almighty not reserve times for judgment?
Why may those who know Him never see His days?
2Men move boundary stones;
they pasture stolen flocks.
3They drive away the donkey of the fatherless
and take the widow’s ox in pledge.
4They push the needy off the road
and force all the poor of the land into hiding.
5Indeed, like wild donkeys in the desert,
the poor go to work foraging for food;
the wasteland is food for their children.
6They gather fodder in the fields
and glean the vineyards of the wicked.
7Without clothing, they spend the night naked;
they have no covering against the cold.
8Drenched by mountain rains,
they huddle against the rocks for want of shelter.
9The fatherless infant is snatched from the breast;
the nursing child of the poor is seized for a debt.
10Without clothing, they wander about naked.
They carry the sheaves, but still go hungry.
11They crush olives within their walls;
they tread the winepresses, but go thirsty.
12From the city, men groan,
and the souls of the wounded cry out,
yet God charges no one with wrongdoing. (effectively "ignoring the prayers of the oppressed" as the NLT says... I'm not a fan of the NLT, but whatever).


So, what Elihu is getting at here, is that Job is missing something. He was fine up until about this point- but he's getting bitter and starting to complain in a way that is not right.
While Job's three friends have simply twisted reality in order to "defend God"; Job has acknowledged that he cannot see what God is doing; and from Job's point of view "God charges no one with wrongdoing".

ELIHU's POINT is that God knows what he is doing... you don't see everything, but God does. Of course, He DOES reserve times for judgement; you just don't see it all unfold. You hear the pleas of the oppressed; but do you know if they are sincere? Or are they just wicked men being oppressed by other wicked men? You don't know, right? So, don't let your speculation take you to the point of this kind of suggestion- that god doesn't charge the wicked... that's crazy. He does what he does when he does it- and it all works out how it ought to in the end.

 

[JohnB]

It depends how you define the word help, it could be he's helping by not answering some prayers 👍

You know John you do bring some good discussions..

It could also be that those that he chooses to ignore could also be getting helped.

I can understand some, but when I hear about children being abused, I wonder where is GOD? I see the war in Gaza and the children suffering. I wish GOD would step in and end Hamas.

 

[Cameron143]

That is what is hard to understand. Many suffer under the rich, yet GOD does not punish the rich.

Read Psalm 73. You aren't alone in your question.

 

[SomeDisciple]

Logically, if you think that God is this aloof kind of judge, the natural conclusion is-
What does it profit me, and what benefit do I gain apart from sin?’

and that's more crazy-talk. We're obviously not better judges than AN OMNISCIENT GOD, so this train of though is just simply erroneous!
You MUST BELIEVE that GOD IS, AND THAT HE IS A REWARDER OF THOSE WHO DILLIGENTLY SEEK HIM.

The wicked may prosper in material wealth, or some other worldly measure of success. That's fine, they have their reward- let them have it. It's all going to burn in the flames.

 

[JohnB]

Logically, if you think that God is this aloof kind of judge, the natural conclusion is-
What does it profit me, and what benefit do I gain apart from sin?’

and that's more crazy-talk. We're obviously not better judges than AN OMNISCIENT GOD, so this train of though is just simply erroneous!
You MUST BELIEVE that GOD IS, AND THAT HE IS A REWARDER OF THOSE WHO DILLIGENTLY SEEK HIM.

The wicked may prosper in material wealth, or some other worldly measure of success. That's fine, they have their reward- let them have it. It's all going to burn in the flames.

I'm doing much better financially right now. A friend sent me over $9000. The friend said an angel spoke to her and said to help me. The money lifted me out of a hole. I am grateful to GOD for the help. I'm 70 and would like to retire. My hope now is to have enough money so I don't have to keep working.

I don't like seeing the children suffering in Gaza. I had hoped GOD would have stepped in and wiped out Hamas sooner.

 

[SomeDisciple]

I can understand some, but when I hear about children being abused, I wonder where is GOD?

Ahem.... I think you meant to say...

‘Where is God my Maker,
who gives us songs in the night,
11who teaches us more than the beasts of the earth
and makes us wiser than the birds of the air?’

 

[Cameron143]

Logically, if you think that God is this aloof kind of judge, the natural conclusion is-
What does it profit me, and what benefit do I gain apart from sin?’

and that's more crazy-talk. We're obviously not better judges than AN OMNISCIENT GOD, so this train of though is just simply erroneous!
You MUST BELIEVE that GOD IS, AND THAT HE IS A REWARDER OF THOSE WHO DILLIGENTLY SEEK HIM.

The wicked may prosper in material wealth, or some other worldly measure of success. That's fine, they have their reward- let them have it. It's all going to burn in the flames.

This is an excellent reminder that an omniscient omnipotent God, who is both just and loving, will by His very nature exercise both grace and justice within His creation. It is also likely that beings with finite minds will struggle to understand what is engendered in the infinite and beyond finding out.
So we are left to trust that the God who has revealed Himself to us is faithful, and is everywhere and all times doing for us what is truly to our good, whether we can understand it or not.

 

[SomeDisciple]

I'm doing much better financially right now. A friend sent me over $9000. The friend said an angel spoke to her and said to help me. The money lifted me out of a hole. I am grateful to GOD for the help.

Getting out of the hole is good news. Great news, even- especially in the current economy. Praise God!

I don't like seeing the children suffering in Gaza. I had hoped GOD would have stepped in and wiped out Hamas sooner.

I think I know what you mean here. I'm not a huge fan of Islamic terror myself. At the same time, that whole land is full of idolatry and sin, so I don't think fire will be coming down from heaven any time soon- even if Hamas were the ones to really escalate the violence of this scenario. Same goes for the US; we will probably either not get our hostages back- or if we do, it will be at a tremendous cost, and whatever we give them will be used against us or Israel. We're already on the receiving end of foreign cyber-attacks. As far as the children are concerned; it sucks, because their suffering is not because of something they did- the world was like this before they got here... (I sure know it was like this before I got here...) but, hopefully they will learn from what they suffer and call on the name of the Lord.

 

[PaulThomson]

The poor must go about naked, without any clothing.
They harvest food for others while they themselves are starving.
They press out olive oil without being allowed to taste it,
and they tread in the winepress as they suffer from thirst.
The groans of the dying rise from the city,
and the wounded cry for help,
yet God ignores their moaning. Job 24:10

Are we saying, then, that God was unfair? Of course not! For God said to Moses,
“I will show mercy to anyone I choose,
and I will show compassion to anyone I choose.”i
So it is God who decides to show mercy. We can neither choose it nor work for it. Romans 9:14

I find verses like these to understand.

The Hebrew of v. 12 says "From out of the city men are groaning and the soul of the wounded is crying out, but God is not determining unsavouriness.

The LXX translates this as "They are being cast out from the cities and their houses and the children cry out, but why is an inspection not made of these things/why is oversight not being carried out of these things?"

This seems to be a description of what one sees every day somewhere in the world. What do you find hard to understand about these verses?

Regarding Rom. 9:14, Calvinism has injected a perspective on God's providence into Christendom that considers Him to be rather arbitrary in His decisions of whose sufferings He will alleviate despite their rebellion, and whose he will worsen to discipline them further for their rebellion. I don't think we should take the Calvinist portrayal of God seriously. He is much more compassionate and tender-hearted than they can accommodate in their flawed systematic.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Take special note of verse 18.


I Samuel 8

There are many times that Israel and Judah were warned about idolatry and various serious national sins.
There were conditions upon answered prayer then, just as there are conditions right now.

 

[Gideon300]

The poor must go about naked, without any clothing.
They harvest food for others while they themselves are starving.
They press out olive oil without being allowed to taste it,
and they tread in the winepress as they suffer from thirst.
The groans of the dying rise from the city,
and the wounded cry for help,
yet God ignores their moaning. Job 24:10

Are we saying, then, that God was unfair? Of course not! For God said to Moses,
“I will show mercy to anyone I choose,
and I will show compassion to anyone I choose.”i
So it is God who decides to show mercy. We can neither choose it nor work for it. Romans 9:14

I find verses like these to understand.

And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists and that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him." Hebrews 11:6