We are not yet in the New Covenant prophecied by Jeremiah and Ezekiel - that is the Millennial reign

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,892
6,485
113
62
You haven't shown how. But even I exposed that Paul was making stuff up without understanding fully. How come you have no issues with Paul? We are not yet in the New Covenant prophecied in Jeremiah and Ezekiel. Are you going to admit that?
Paul wrote what the Holy Spirit moved him to write. He didn't get anything wrong. That should be your starting place.
You say you follow Jesus. He is the Word of God. That means if you reject the writings of Paul, you also reject Christ.
 
Nov 28, 2023
67
1
8
Paul wrote what the Holy Spirit moved him to write. He didn't get anything wrong. That should be your starting place.
You say you follow Jesus. He is the Word of God. That means if you reject the writings of Paul, you also reject Christ.
"Paul wrote what the Holy Spirit moved him to write. "

Lol, funny you say this - "and I think myself also to have the Spirit of God. " - 1 Corinthians 7:40 .


He literally writes in the Bible that he has doubts. Lol.

"He didn't get anything wrong. " - I am waiting to hear a counter argument to my rejection of Paul's theories of the New Covenant.

"He is the Word of God. That means if you reject the writings of Paul, you also reject Christ. "

False equivalence. He is the Word but you are assuming that that Word includes Paul's writings which were canonized decades later. Jesus is the Word meaning OT. The Law and the Prophets specifically. Not even the Ketuvim.
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
Paul wrote what the Holy Spirit moved him to write. He didn't get anything wrong. That should be your starting place.
You say you follow Jesus. He is the Word of God. That means if you reject the writings of Paul, you also reject Christ.
Amen. Paul was a chosen vessel, specifically chosen by the will of God.
Ephes.. 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
4,995
1,264
113
Acts 9:10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
Acts 9:11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
Acts 9:12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
Acts 9:13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
Acts 9:14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:


Here Luke makes very clear that Paul is a "chosen vessel unto" God.



2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2 Peter 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.


Its pretty clear how Peter feels about "our beloved brother Paul". Peter speaks of those who wrest and struggle to understand Paul's writings and wisdom, struggling unto their own destruction. Take care not to repeat their mistakes.
 
Nov 28, 2023
67
1
8
Acts 9:10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.
Acts 9:11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,
Acts 9:12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.
Acts 9:13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:
Acts 9:14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:


Here Luke makes very clear that Paul is a "chosen vessel unto" God.



2 Peter 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
2 Peter 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2 Peter 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.


Its pretty clear how Peter feels about "our beloved brother Paul". Peter speaks of those who wrest and struggle to understand Paul's writings and wisdom, struggling unto their own destruction. Take care not to repeat their mistakes.
Okay, I do agree that Paul is an Apostle of G-d. I am not like some fanatics who calls Paul a false prophet or whatever. Even I quote Paul quite often - as seen above.

But when are you going to argue against my claims against Paul's writings?
 

TabinRivCA

Well-known member
Oct 23, 2018
13,052
10,616
113
Is Paul right in Hebrews 8:8 (assuming Paul wrote it) when he quotes Jeremiah 31:31-34 and assumes that the new covenant Jesus started is the same New Covenant prophecied in the Old Testament? How can we be in a New Covenant, if the prophecies of the Old Covenant have still not yet been fulfilled? I am sure most of us would agree that Daniel's 70 Weeks Prophecy, an OT and mother of all prophecies, is not yet fulfilled. Even Isaiah 49's and many other OT's mention of the regathering of the Lost Tribes of Israel is still not fulfilled and in fact, the Messiah was supposed to do that.

More on this after I hear from the others ...
How does this affect or relate to our mission to be lights in this world sharing the love and truth of Jesus Christ in the here and now? Paul served his purpose, so what's the quibble?

(honestly not trying to derail, just want to know the crux of this debate OP's offering)
 
Nov 28, 2023
67
1
8
How does this affect or relate to our mission to be lights in this world sharing the love and truth of Jesus Christ in the here and now? Paul served his purpose, so what's the quibble?

(honestly not trying to derail, just want to know the crux of this debate OP's offering)
You will share the truth of Jesus Christ and the coherent picture of the Bible despite the incoherence that Paul brings about? I hope you know what truth, lies and half-truths mean. Why are so many of you coming here and not giving me a single proper argument? This is like the High Priests getting riled up by one man - Jesus. No one was properly arguing with Jesus. It was Jesus who was constantly bringing more and more points to reconsider.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,892
6,485
113
62
"Paul wrote what the Holy Spirit moved him to write. "

Lol, funny you say this - "and I think myself also to have the Spirit of God. " - 1 Corinthians 7:40 .


He literally writes in the Bible that he has doubts. Lol.

"He didn't get anything wrong. " - I am waiting to hear a counter argument to my rejection of Paul's theories of the New Covenant.

"He is the Word of God. That means if you reject the writings of Paul, you also reject Christ. "

False equivalence. He is the Word but you are assuming that that Word includes Paul's writings which were canonized decades later. Jesus is the Word meaning OT. The Law and the Prophets specifically. Not even the Ketuvim.
I'm interested to know where you believe Paul doubts. But clearly you don't believe the whole of scripture is inspired so it is futile to have a discussion. We aren't using the same material.
 
Nov 28, 2023
67
1
8
I'm interested to know where you believe Paul doubts. But clearly you don't believe the whole of scripture is inspired so it is futile to have a discussion. We aren't using the same material.
I quoted the verse. Maybe it wasn't clear enough -

"and I think myself also to have the Spirit of God. " - 1 Corinthians 7:40

Why does he only "think" he has the Holy Spirit? I agree that all of us have doubts but if he is more important than the others, as known by him as you claim, then why does he doubt like the others?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,892
6,485
113
62
Okay, I do agree that Paul is an Apostle of G-d. I am not like some fanatics who calls Paul a false prophet or whatever. Even I quote Paul quite often - as seen above.

But when are you going to argue against my claims against Paul's writings?
Are any of the other Apostles incorrect in what they write?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,892
6,485
113
62
I quoted the verse. Maybe it wasn't clear enough -

"and I think myself also to have the Spirit of God. " - 1 Corinthians 7:40

Why does he only "think" he has the Holy Spirit? I agree that all of us have doubts but if he is more important than the others, as known by him as you claim, then why does he doubt like the others?
He doesn't. But He is under the operation of the Spirit as he writes...holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost...2 Peter 1:21.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
59,815
29,193
113
Maybe I can do that but not now.

Are you calling G-d a liar for prophecying something and not fulfilling it?
Let me know when you can back up your view with Scripture.

Plus, your question is ridiculous and completely unecessary.

Although it let's me know something of your character.
 
Nov 28, 2023
67
1
8
Are any of the other Apostles incorrect in what they write?
I love Peter a lot. In fact I love Peter more than Paul though both are different kinds of talents. I actually love how Peter stood by his ideal that Christians should separate themselves for the Gentiles because 1000s of years later, I have identified the same as well. The only problem is most Christians think they are the Gentiles. No, they are the lost tribes. So among the billions of Christians (especially Protestants) in the world, I believe at least 80% of them are of Abrahamic/Israeli descent - even without their own knowledge.

Now, even Jesus said don't go the Gentiles. Also in Revelation, He commends the Church of Ephesus for staying away from the Nicolaitans who mingled with idol-worshippers and so on. So I was a little upset that Peter chose to listen to Paul and mend his beliefs.

Secondly, when Peter says, some things that Paul writes is hard to understand, is he not understanding that whatever Scriptural we understand is usually only based on the help of the Holy Spirit? Then why worry about understanding the "hard writings" of Paul? These are not things that Scripture would usually have. That's why I even said that the Ketuvim in TANAKH is not necessarily Scripture. They are just philosophical writings.

Most of the NT writings outside of the Gospel and Revelation are purely interpretations. Interpretations are a Talmudic style of writing not a Scriptural style of writing. James 4:4 is one of my favorite verses in the Bible and the OT has similar writings like that but should it be Scripture? Not necessarily. Scripture is mainly G-d's own words, commandments and prophecies. Nothing beyond that is needed. But we should read everything and test it with the spirit of truth. The problem is you all like writings outside Scripture but don't admit that there are truths outside of the Scripture too. That's just a prideful way of living life - "do you believe the Bible is the Word of G-d?" "No?" "You are a heretic". Come on! Bible-worshippers.
 
Nov 28, 2023
67
1
8
He doesn't. But He is under the operation of the Spirit as he writes...holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost...2 Peter 1:21.
Just because you say "He doesn't" doesn't change what is so evidently written and quoted by me. Looking for arguments about the linguistics there.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,892
6,485
113
62
I quoted the verse. Maybe it wasn't clear enough -

"and I think myself also to have the Spirit of God. " - 1 Corinthians 7:40

Why does he only "think" he has the Holy Spirit? I agree that all of us have doubts but if he is more important than the others, as known by him as you claim, then why does he doubt like the others?
It's an expression. He is dealing with remarriage. His argument that when a spouse dies, the remaining partner is free to remarry. But his advice is that it is better to remain single. As a single man it has proven so for him. So the phrase...think I have the Spirit...is simply to bolster the argument. In other words, as a Christian this has been my experience and I believe it will be so for others. Paul knew he was saved.
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
Let me know when you can back up your view with Scripture.

Plus, your question is ridiculous and completely unecessary.

Although it let's me know something of your character.
He hardly backs up anything with scripture. :rolleyes:
 
Nov 28, 2023
67
1
8
Let me know when you can back up your view with Scripture.

Plus, your question is ridiculous and completely unecessary.

Although it let's me know something of your character.
I did. But because you don't know what part of Scripture talks about that, let me repeat -

Jeremiah 31:31-34 -

31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers (meaning the Old Covenant will be done with) on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

Ezekiel 36:24-28 -

24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. 28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
18,892
6,485
113
62
Just because you say "He doesn't" doesn't change what is so evidently written and quoted by me. Looking for arguments about the linguistics there.
All scripture is given by inspiration of God...2 Timothy 3:16. Do you believe any of what Paul wrote is scripture? Who decides?
 

selahsays

Well-known member
May 31, 2023
2,796
1,484
113
I did. But because you don't know what part of Scripture talks about that, let me repeat -

Jeremiah 31:31-34 -

31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers (meaning the Old Covenant will be done with) on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke, though I was their husband, declares the Lord. 33 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 34 And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the Lord. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”

Ezekiel 36:24-28 -

24 For I will take you from among the nations, gather you out of all countries, and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you shall be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them. 28 Then you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; you shall be My people, and I will be your God.
This prophecy will be fulfilled in the Millennium. Don’t confuse it with the New Covenant.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.