The Glasgow razor boy and eternal security

[Fundaamental]

But see, You just told me that You Confess Your Sins, like the Apostle John instructed.

Just for conversation, if You did not Confess Your Sins, like John instructed, how does that specific Sin get forgiven and then forgotten by God?

can you be forgiven without confessing..

Ok well what does this read


John 5:16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

can you be forgiven without confessing..

the Catholic Church thinks so [the Act of taking Communion], but, i do not adhere to any of those idealisms. i only know what the Bible states.

Ok well what does this read
John 5:16 If you see any brother or sister commit a sin that does not lead to death, you should pray and God will give them life

we know Ananias and his wife committed a Sin that led to immediate death, lying to the Spirit of God. this of course, led to both physical and spiritual Death.

but many sins don't lead to physical death right away. so, it's difficult to hang the tag of spiritual death to them if there's time to Repent.

i guess if you saw someone cheating on his wife, you pray God convicts them.

 

[BeeBlessed]

But see, You just told me that You Confess Your Sins, like the Apostle John instructed.

Just for conversation, if You did not Confess Your Sins, like John instructed, how does that specific Sin get forgiven and then forgotten by God?

In Christ, my sins are forgiven and forgotten by the grace of God, by Father accepting the sacrifice of Christ on my behalf, by Christ claiming me as one of His own and pleading for mercy for me. My prayerful confessions, I believe, keep my relationship with my Father strong. Just the privilege of prayer reminds me of His promise of faithfulness to forgive. I want to abide in His love. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I cannot un-repent.

 

[Fundaamental]

the Catholic Church thinks so [the Act of taking Communion], but, i do not adhere to any of those idealisms. i only know what the Bible states.

we know Ananias and his wife committed a Sin that led to immediate death, lying to the Spirit of God. this of course, led to both physical and spiritual Death.

but many sins don't lead to physical death right away. so, it's difficult to hang the tag of spiritual death to them if there's time to Repent.

i guess if you saw someone cheating on his wife, you pray God convicts them.

i would imagine every living person will have sins they've been punished for that they never confessed for.

You could say that when God punishes you it is also a kind of forgiveness as God also chastises those he loves.

I would say it more than likely people forget to confess sins that they would consider minor,

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

John 5:24

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

Romans 8:1-4

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Romans 8:34

Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.

From the moment we believe and placed our faith in the work of Christ, He continually pleads our case night and day. The words “who makes intercession” indicate regular, recurring action. He takes on the role of our legal representative. He knows every detail about us—past, present, and future—and He literally pleads for us before our Father, just as He did in John 17:20-23). I find that so, SO comforting. When we sin, of course we tell Him we’re sorry and ask Him to help us—because we have a relationship with Him, and we want to keep that relationship healthy.

I consider this prayer of our Savior answered, that we will be made perfect, but not because of anything we did.

John 17:20-23

“I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.”

Sadly,

He is blinded by a word. and will not look at what the word says, He has placed himself back under law. where there is no hope

 

[mailmandan]

I use the original Greek, so there's no reasoning by humans involved in the Translation.

Reasoning by humans involved? So, you are saying that multiple translations of Romans 3:25 are incorrect and are the result of human reasoning and the translators had no knowledge of the original Greek?

As I already pointed out, multiple translations say passed over former sins/passed over the sins previously committed/left the sins committed beforehand unpunished/passed over the sins previously committed [before Jesus’ crucifixion] which sheds some light on what is meant by PAST sins.

As Greek scholar AT Robertson points out in Romans 3:25:

Set forth (προεθετο). Second aorist middle indicative. See on Romans 1:13 for this word. Also in Ephesians 1:9, but nowhere else in N.T. God set before himself (purposed) and did it publicly before (προ) the whole world.

A propitiation (ιλαστηριον). The only other N.T. example of this word is in Hebrews 9:5 where we have the "cherubim overshadowing the mercy seat" (το ιλαστηριον). In Hebrews the adjective is used as a substantive or as "the propitiatory place " But that idea does not suit here. Deissmann (Bible Studies, pp. 124-35) has produced examples from inscriptions where it is used as an adjective and as meaning "a votive offering" or "propitiatory gift." Hence he concludes about Romans 3:25: "The crucified Christ is the votive gift of the Divine Love for the salvation of men." God gave his Son as the means of propitiation (1 John 2:2). Hιλαστηριον is an adjective (ιλαστηριος) from ιλασκομα, to make propitiation (Hebrews 2:17) and is kin in meaning to ιλασμος, propitiation (1 John 2:2; 1 John 4:10). There is no longer room for doubting its meaning in Romans 3:25.

Through faith, by his blood (δια πιστεως εν τω αυτου αιματ). So probably, connecting εν το αιματ (in his blood) with προεθετο.

To show his righteousness (εις ενδειξιν της δικαιοσυνης αυτου). See 2 Corinthians 8:24. "For showing of his righteousness," the God-kind of righteousness. God could not let sin go as if a mere slip. God demanded the atonement and provided it.

Because of the passing over (δια την παρεσιν). Late word from παριημ, to let go, to relax. In Dionysius Hal., Xenophon, papyri (Deissmann, Bible Studies, p. 266) for remission of punishment, especially for debt, as distinct from αφεσις (remission).

Done aforetime (προγεγονοτων). Second perfect active genitive participle of προγινομα. The sins before the coming of Christ (Acts 14:16; Acts 17:30; Hebrews 9:15).

Forbearance (ανοχη). Holding back of God as in Romans 2:4. In this sense Christ tasted death for every man (Hebrews 2:9).

Romans 3 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

It's straight forward Past sins like Peter says Old sins. Peter even says people are ignorant of this fact.

In regard to old sins, Peter was simply saying their sins were forgiven by God in times past. He's not saying that only past sins were forgiven, but that forgiveness of sins occurred in the past. The literal translation reads - For the one in whom these things are not present is blind, being shortsighted, taking on forgetfulness of the cleansing of his sins in time past.

2 Peter 1:9 - LIT - For the one in whom these things are not present is blind, being shortsighted, taking on forgetfulness of the cleansing of his sins in time past. (studylight.org)

Much like the Grace Doctrine.

There is nothing ignorant about the grace doctrine. We are saved by grace through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) We are justified by faith and have access by faith into grace. (Romans 5:1,2) The free gift comes by grace resulting in justification of life. (Romans 5:15-18) What's ignorant is the works doctrine, namely, salvation by works, which nullifies grace. (Romans 11:6)

So, Romans 3:25 and 2 Peter 1:9 merely "on the surface" only appear to teach what you are teaching.

Once again, in Acts 13:39, we read that by Him everyone who believes is justified from ALL things from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses. In Colossians 2:13, we read that He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you ALL trespasses. The blood of Jesus purifies us from ALL sin. (1 John 1:7) Not merely some sins or sins that were only committed in the past but ALL sins.

 

[mailmandan]

And then you IGNORE what Jesus said... those that do not abide in Him are... cut off.

To abide simply means to remain, continue, not depart. Judas Iscariot is a good example of one who did not abide in Christ and departed, yet he did not lose salvation, but was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus. (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11)

 

[mailmandan]

THE DEAD BRANCHES GET CUT OFF.

Those who are xcondemned are already condemned because they have not believed.. The wrath of God already abides in them

Amen! The dead branches get cut off. In John 15:2-6, the branches that bear fruit and remain are genuine believers (like the remaining 11 disciples). The self-attached dead branches that bear no (good) fruit and do not remain are not genuine believers (like Judas Iscariot who was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus - John 6:64-71; 13:10-11). In John 15:2, Jesus mentions branches that bear no fruit and branches that bear fruit, but Jesus says nothing about branches that bear fruit but then later stop bearing fruit.

As Greek scholar AT Robertson points out that there are two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). Probably (Bernard) Jesus here refers to Judas. (Proverbs 27:17)

John 15 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

 

[mailmandan]

The fact you can not answer my question just proves that you are not here to learn anything.

Jesus said the forgiveness of sin will be preached to the world.

He did not say past sin, future sin or present sin, he said sin.

John the baptist said the lamb of God who takes the sin of the world. He did not say past sin, present or future

here are more verses and notice. not once were the words past present or future used

Galatians 1:4
who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father,

Ephesians 1:7
In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace

Colossians 1:14
in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

Hebrews 1:3
who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

Hebrews 10:12
But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God,

1 Peter 2:24
who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,

1 John 2:2
And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Revelation 1:5
and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood,

Eternity is far to long a time period to fuss over one little word. if thats the only thing holding you back. I would think hard and clear..

So, people actually need to words "past, present and future" sins specifically spelled out in scripture in order to figure out that ALL sins mean past, present and future sins? (Acts 13:39; Colossians 2:13; 1 John 1:7) Why would Christ only die for past sins or some sins and not ALL sins? Either we are forgiven of ALL our sins or none of our sins. There is no middle ground.

 

[mailmandan]

now, that it cannot be proven there is such a thing found in the Bible claiming, "future sins" are forgiven. [this was a Debate, only]
i want to give my personal interpretation.

When Jesus DIED, His WORK on the Cross, extends as far back to Adam and as far forward to the End of Time.

but, from the Cross to my own Regeneration, was a FUTURE Event from the Cross itself.
People Saved after me, is also a Future Event.

But I am NOW, this Current MOMENT, Saved.
my next Sin I commit, is Forgiven, the moment I Confess them.

look at 1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, faithful is he and righteous to forgive us the sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

so, what does [the sins] in Verse 9 mean?
it means, the Sins WE CONFESS. so, Impossible to mean personal Future Sins, because, I have yet to CONFESS THEM.

so, if we are not in a habit of Confessing the Sins we make today, then how are those Current Sins Forgiven?

THEY must be Confessed.

and you cannot Confess something, until, you do it. because, you don't know how you will commit your next sin, to Confess in advance.

Notice that - "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9) is in contrast to - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (1 John 1:8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1 John 1:10)

You seem to misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we "must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific inventory of every sin) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and "if we forget a sin, we are toast!" Who could actually write an exhaustive list of every sin they have ever committed or ever will commit? Sin is not only missing the mark by what we do but also what we fail to do. (James 4:17)

Believers "confess" (Greek - homologeó) speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and ongoing acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness in contrast with saying that we have no sin or that we have not sinned. (1 John 1:8-10)

 

[Edify]

To ABIDE means to remain. Remain implys you are there & need to stay.
One CANNOT remain if they were never there.
I cannot remain in an organization I've never joined.
Since abide means "to stay", that automatically specifies I have to stay, which requires some decision making on my part to do so, a committment. I can do so because I've been created unto good works that I can now do them.
As a sinner I couldn't, but now in Christ I can do whatever God requires of me.

 

[mailmandan]

One CANNOT remain if they were never there.

Was Judas Iscariot there with Jesus and the other 11 disciples? Yet he did not remain and there was a reason for that.

 

[Edify]

1 John 2:24
English Standard Version
Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father.
New American Standard Bible
As for you, see that what you heard from the beginning remains in you. If what you heard from the beginning remains in you, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.

It requires that we stay, & not leave, proving that we CAN leave if we desire.
Judas is an example of this.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

So, people actually need to words "past, present and future" sins specifically spelled out in scripture in order to figure out that ALL sins mean past, present and future sins? (Acts 13:39; Colossians 2:13; 1 John 1:7) Why would Christ only die for past sins or some sins and not ALL sins? Either we are forgiven of ALL our sins or none of our sins. There is no middle ground.

Pride says you must do something..

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

1 John 2:24
English Standard Version
Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father.
New American Standard Bible
As for you, see that what you heard from the beginning remains in you. If what you heard from the beginning remains in you, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.

It requires that we stay, & not leave, proving that we CAN leave if we desire.
Judas is an example of this.

No

It does not prove this

We can't leave God, he said he would never leave nor forsake us.. Where are you going to go wither God is not?

People like Judas and other non believers who played Christian for awhile and returned to their vomit are and were always dogs.. Lost. Unsaved..

 

[Edify]

I would much rather be found doing Christ's will when He comes instead of sitting on my hands making empty claims of what I no longer have due to fruitlessness(unfaithfulness).

 

[mailmandan]

1 John 2:24
English Standard Version
Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father.
New American Standard Bible
As for you, see that what you heard from the beginning remains in you. If what you heard from the beginning remains in you, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.

It requires that we stay, & not leave, proving that we CAN leave if we desire.
Judas is an example of this.

That's an important IF in 1 John 2:24. IF what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father. If we desire to leave then this proves what we heard from the beginning does not abide in us. Judas Iscariot was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus. (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11) That's why he did not remain. It wasn't because he lost his salvation.

 

[mailmandan]

I would much rather be found doing Christ's will when He comes instead of sitting on my hands making empty claims of what I no longer have due to fruitlessness(unfaithfulness).

We need to be sure that we have done God's will unto salvation - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. (John 6:40) Apart from believing in Christ unto salvation, any work done is in vain (fruitlessness/unfaithfulness) and is just going through the motions of moral self-reformation apart from regeneration.

There is a difference between doing God's will in order to become saved (John 6:40)

AND

doing God's will after we are saved. (1 Thessalonians 5:14-18)

 

[Edify]

No

It does not prove this

We can't leave God, he said he would never leave nor forsake us.. Where are you going to go wither God is not?

People like Judas and other non believers who played Christian for awhile and returned to their vomit are and were always dogs.. Lost. Unsaved..

Really? You see Judas as a dog from the beginning? Have you forgotten that Judas was able to do what the other 12 did when Jesus sent them out to perform miracles , heal, & cast out devils?
Jesus said plainly that a demon couldn't cast out devils, otherwise his kingdom would fall.
Since when did Jesus give such power & authority to a faker, a hypocrite? Judas had his part with them until he let the devil enter into him. It's all there in the Bible.

 

[Edify]

John 15:4
4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned