The Glasgow razor boy and eternal security

Cameron143 · Nov 25, 2023

I agree. Earlier you stated that everyone must choose Christ. It's a semantical point, but I believe it's more accurate to say will choose Christ, as enabled by God through faith. I make the distinction because many believe that we exercise faith prior to a work of God in us, and God responds to us. I would argue that we respond to the work of God in us.
Either way, understanding how exactly salvation transpires isn't necessary for salvation itself. And I truly appreciate your time and effort and patience in answering all my questions.
I said I would give opportunity for any explanation you care to share. Please share anything you believe will be helpful to me.

selahsays · Nov 25, 2023

Cameron143 said:

I agree. Earlier you stated that everyone must choose Christ. It's a semantical point, but I believe it's more accurate to say will choose Christ, as enabled by God through faith. I make the distinction because many believe that we exercise faith prior to a work of God in us, and God responds to us. I would argue that we respond to the work of God in us.
Either way, understanding how exactly salvation transpires isn't necessary for salvation itself. And I truly appreciate your time and effort and patience in answering all my questions.
I said I would give opportunity for any explanation you care to share. Please share anything you believe will be helpful to me.

I agree. “will choose”

Thanks for the iron-sharpening session. It was good.

Evmur · Nov 26, 2023

Magenta said:

I do not say they had a sin nature, they were innocent.

But they were tricked.

It is not wholly true to say they had freewill for God said "of that tree thou shalt not eat." But the fruit of that tree opened a whole new dimension, a new world.

So God's embargo was a curtailment of Adam's will. He had a choice, choice is not freewill unless we have set the conditions and consequences ourselves.

Adam could live, that was God's will or he could die, dead men have no freewill.

But they were tricked, it was God's embargo that curtailed Adam's freedom of will, the devil sought to remove the embargo "you will not surely die"

"You'll be like God ... able to discern good and evil," [... you can still choose to do good

...] he tricked Adam into believing he had freewill.

It's the devil's oldest hoax and the one that works the best.

Evmur · Nov 26, 2023

Everlasting-Grace said:

This is critical.

I'm asking you why you [suppose] you chose good and they chose bad. You would need to be SUPER human if that did not lead you to believe that you are somehow better than they.

And when you see them lying in the shop doorway begging, mind smashed by drugs you would need to be SUPER human not to say "they have made their bed now they must lie in it ....

I chose to follow Jesus"

Whatever truth there is in that it is certainly what people think Christians believe, they believe Christians think they are better than everybody else.

You say "if I hadn't have chosen Jesus [of my own freewill I'd be like him"
I say "there but for God's grace and mercy go I"

Everlasting-Grace · Nov 26, 2023

Cameron143 said:

he who believes is not condemned

He who DOES NOT BELIEVE is CONDEMNED ALREADY

Jesus did not pay for the in of unbelief.

Everlasting-Grace · Nov 26, 2023

Cameron143 said:

It is the work of God we believe.

All we do by faith is chose to recieve his Gift..

It’s like a person who is walking through a field of serpents and getting bit and seeing people die around them. God had Moses put a serpent on a pole. And said whoever looks will live, whoever does not will die.

The person who looked did not earn his or her salvation. They did not save themselves. They trusted in God to save them.

in Like manner as Jesus said in John 3. Just as Moses raised that serpent. So too must the son of man be lifted up. So whoever believed will not die but live forever.

They did nto save themselves. They did nto work to be saved, God did the work and saved them.

For we have been saved by Grace (Gods Riches At Christ’s Expense) not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by his mercy, THROUGH faith in Trusting God and having the assurance God will do what he promiseD

Cameron143 · Nov 26, 2023

Everlasting-Grace said:

Do you have a verse that teaches this? Man is born under wrath and so condemned. Is there scripture that says unbelief is not forgiven? And wouldn't that condemn us all as we were all once in unbelief?

Cameron143 · Nov 26, 2023

Everlasting-Grace said:

It is the work of God we believe.

All we do by faith is chose to recieve his Gift..

It’s like a person who is walking through a field of serpents and getting bit and seeing people die around them. God had Moses put a serpent on a pole. And said whoever looks will live, whoever does not will die.

The person who looked did not earn his or her salvation. They did not save themselves. They trusted in God to save them.

in Like manner as Jesus said in John 3. Just as Moses raised that serpent. So too must the son of man be lifted up. So whoever believed will not die but live forever.

They did nto save themselves. They did nto work to be saved, God did the work and saved them.

For we have been saved by Grace (Gods Riches At Christ’s Expense) not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by his mercy, THROUGH faith in Trusting God and having the assurance God will do what he promiseD

Faith is merely the means that God gives us the knowledge of Christ and what He has done. It is what removes unbelief and grants belief.

JimmyTheLock · Nov 26, 2023

Evmur said:

So you believe there is no safety abiding in Jesus Christ?

Jesus taught this in John 15.... those that abide IN Him are safe, those not abiding IN Him are cut off.

It's not smart to claim the teachings of Jesus are false!

Evmur said:

Ezekiel 18:20
The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father

God is not holding us responsible for Adam's sin.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

God is hold us responsible for our own sin, not Adam's sin.

Everlasting-Grace · Nov 26, 2023

Cameron143 said:

It is the work of God we believe.

All we do by faith is chose to recieve his Gift..

It’s like a person who is walking through a field of serpents and getting bit and seeing people die around them. God had Moses put a serpent on a pole. And said whoever looks will live, whoever does not will die.

The person who looked did not earn his or her salvation. They did not save themselves. They trusted in God to save them.

in Like manner as Jesus said in John 3. Just as Moses raised that serpent. So too must the son of man be lifted up. So whoever believed will not die but live forever.

They did nto save themselves. They did nto work to be saved, God did the work and saved them.

For we have been saved by Grace (Gods Riches At Christ’s Expense) not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by his mercy, THROUGH faith in Trusting God and having the assurance God will do what he promiseD

Everlasting-Grace · Nov 26, 2023

JimmyTheLock said:

Go live in your self righteousness, And thinking you are ok.

I will live under truth and Gods grace. Because its all I have.

Everlasting-Grace · Nov 26, 2023

Evmur said:

Why? Have you read romans 1? Or how about John 3?

Again, this is thinking backwards. They think they are better than me, and do not Need saved.

And when you see them lying in the shop doorway begging, mind smashed by drugs you would need to be SUPER human not to say "they have made their bed now they must lie in it ....

I chose to follow Jesus"

Whatever truth there is in that it is certainly what people think Christians believe, they believe Christians think they are better than everybody else.

You say "if I hadn't have chosen Jesus [of my own freewill I'd be like him"
I say "there but for God's grace and mercy go I"[/QUOTE]
I never said any such thing. You’re not listening. Stop thinking calvin vs arminian.. Thats the trouble with many of these discussions. The arminian thinks one thing, the calvinist thinks another. And the people in the middle are never understood.

Everlasting-Grace · Nov 26, 2023

Cameron143 said:

Really?
So you know the word and you can not remember this famous verse in John 3?

John 3:
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, 15 that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God

Everlasting-Grace · Nov 26, 2023

Cameron143 said:

Now where in the Bible do you see this?

Never heard anything like this before.

NightTwister · Nov 26, 2023

oyster67 said:

They were also the last ones to be able to completely choose not to sin on their own.

The_Watchers_2017 · Nov 26, 2023

NightTwister said:

you are Saved, now?
so, when you sin, you choose it because you have been reborn.
free will SIN is most evident in a Christians life because they have a New Nature.
by Sinning with a New Nature, proves, there's still a Will while when we were in our Old Nature.

JimmyTheLock · Nov 26, 2023

Everlasting-Grace said:

You don't accept all the Truth... if you did, you would accept ALL the Lord says concerning salvation.

Jesus said the Holy Ghost would lead us in to ALL Truth (John 16:13),
and Jesus said God's Word IS Truth (John 17:17)

Romans 8:14
For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God.

Those that are led by the Holy Ghost don't believe the false doctrines of the OSAS peoples who have to ignore large portions of God's Word to make their doctrine sound plausible.

Everlasting-Grace said:

And did you notice that "believe" is in the continuous tense... meaning the promise is only applicable when one continues to believe?

And God's definition if that believing faith is found in the Book of James where we learn faith without corresponding action is dead and not saving faith?

Just belief alone is not better than the faith the devil has... according to the Book of James that says the devil believes and trembles in fear. Faith alone is not saving faith... faith that is acted on produces saving faith.

James 1:22
be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves

The_Watchers_2017 said:

Now that's a hot piping fresh load of horse hockey!

Choosing to sin because we have a new nature???

Magenta · Nov 26, 2023

JimmyTheLock said:

Scripture does not say creation and man (Adam) were perfect, but good, and after Eve was created, very good.
Adam and Eve were of the natural world and the natural man is at enmity with God, opposed to His law.
I'm sorry to hear that you reject this salient bit of Bible teaching. A whole lot more goes along with it,
which you must also be missing and/or in denial of. We have been over this before but you keep ignoring it.

Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; the liars go astray from birth.
4 Their venom is like the venom of a snake, like a cobra that shuts its ears,…

Psalm 14:3
All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one.

Psalm 51:5
Surely I was brought forth in iniquity; I was sinful when my mother conceived me.

Psalm 52:3
You love evil more than good, falsehood more than speaking truth. Selah

Psalm 53:3
All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one.

Isaiah 48:8
You have never heard; you have never understood; for a long time your ears have not
been open. For I knew how deceitful you are; you have been called a rebel from birth.

Psalm 51:5
Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Job 14:4 Who can bring out clean from unclean? No one!

Job 15:14
What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous?

Proverbs 22:15
Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

John 3:3 Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.”

Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and
death through sin, so also death was passed on to all men, because all sinned.

Ecclesiastes 7:20 Surely there is no righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.

Romans 3:10 As it is written: “There is no one righteous, not even one.

Ephesians 2:3 All of us also lived among them at one time, fulfilling the cravings of our flesh
and indulging its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature children of wrath.

Jeremiah 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?

1 John 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word is not in us.

The_Watchers_2017 · Nov 26, 2023

JimmyTheLock said:

if that is what you took effort to find, you do so to argue.

that's not my intentions at all.

you just want to fight.

i will add, because this thread, is perfect for it.
a Christian could physically beat down another stupid Christian and be forgiven.

almost seems worth it.

JimmyTheLock · Nov 26, 2023

The_Watchers_2017 said:

So, in your belief system... it's all good, Christians can engage in all the sin they want because all their future sins are forgiven?

Why not become a drug trafficker so you'll have mo money to spend on spreading the gospel? Maybe become a pornographer? What about becoming a pimp? You could make lots of money being a hit man too!

Is there any sin Christians should refrain from... or is it all good and we can sin all we want and get all jiggy with it???

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