Does God Know From All Eternity Who Will Die Having Rejected Sound Doctrine?

[John146]

I would argue that God changed their minds...and hearts. Nineveh was a city of heathens who had no regard for the God of Israel. Within 40 days, to the person, they humbled themselves before Him. What caused this? Human reason? Activity of God?

When faced with the word of God about their upcoming destruction, the people of Nineveh believed God. Repenting and crying out to God was their only hope. "Who can tell if God will turn and repent..."

Jonah 3
4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.
6 For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.
7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:
8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.
9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.


God didn't change their hearts. The people had a choice when faced with the word of God. God is not a liar. God had every intention of overthrowing Nineveh in forty days until they repented. When God saw their repentance, God changed his course of action and showed them mercy.

 

[John146]

Upon hearing the news that his child would die, David fasted and wept to the Lord, because he knew the Lord may be gracious to him, change his course, and allow the child to live. David knew this, why don't we?

2 Samuel 12:22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether God will be gracious to me, that the child may live?

 

[Jimbone]

Again, what has God declared from the beginning? The end. We can now read all about the end in the book of Revelation. God has not declared all things in between. God allows man to make choices. God has not declared those choices.

I agree, God's counsel shall stand. Everything God has declared in his word shall stand, and there's nothing man can do about God's counsel. However, everything that is happening around us is not God's counsel. God is working in and through all things to make sure his counsel stands.

To be honest this is a silly argument. God knows the end, yet can't see the middle? Sorry but that's about as dumb as anything I've ever heard. Your arguments about Gods' ignorance are weak and completely silly in my opinion. I'm not going to keep glorifying our God to you, for you to just keep arguing for His weakness and man's strength. You are misguided and ignorant of truth. So you just keep on preaching your weak, ignorant, false God, who just crosses His fingers and hopes for the best. I'm going to keep preaching about the one TRUE Mighty God who reigns sovereign over EVERYTHING in power, and has made a way through His Son Jesus to represent His glory and might, by bringing His story into His creation EXACTLY how He planned from the beginning to save and reconcile a rebellious, blind, and ungrateful people back to Him.
Again the only reason I can think of to try to lessen Gods power over all the way to guys do, is to glorify your own choice, and that's all I picture when reading your side of the debate, self centeredness and self glorifying. You want the glory for being saved, or I should say you want the glory for staying saved. To you when our King saves us, He's just rollin the dice right? No real power huh?

 

[Cameron143]

When faced with the word of God about their upcoming destruction, the people of Nineveh believed God. Repenting and crying out to God was their only hope. "Who can tell if God will turn and repent..."

Jonah 3
4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.
6 For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.
7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:
8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands.
9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.


God didn't change their hearts. The people had a choice when faced with the word of God. God is not a liar. God had every intention of overthrowing Nineveh in forty days until they repented. When God saw their repentance, God changed his course of action and showed them mercy.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
God sent a preacher to declare His word. The people responded. This only happens when God is working. Salvation is always the same. It involves the word of God and the Spirit of God. If God doesn't circumcise a heart, there is no salvation.
I realize you place the emphasis on what men do. I do agree that men are to respond to God. But a response void of an inward change is merely drawing nigh unto God with one's lips while the heart remains far from Him.

 

[Mem]

Can we have some leafmen for a change? I could put these leaves I just raked up to good use.

oi, nvm, the city just came and picked them up.

 

[Magenta]

All who hear the gospel are called. I should have said yes, Rom. 8: 28-29 does apply to me today. "Today, if you hear his voice..."

John 5:24-25

 

[posthuman]

You are not digging deep enough and logically enough. You claim God does not change. If God looking from your supposed timeless eternal state does not change in any way over all of history and seeing all of history from everlasting to everlasting in one timeless now, and he is angry with someone at some point in history, how does he escape from being angry with them from everlasting to everlasting. And if he is pleased with someone else at some point in time, how does He escape from being pleased with them from everlasting to everlasting.

Maybe it is your God who is chained in a cave and bound to His eternal inability to change. Open theism does not have these kinds of logical paradoxes to contend with.

it is a human anger that is angry with other people.
God's anger is kindled by wickedness, not by a person.

 

[posthuman]

Can we have some leafmen for a change? I could put these leaves I just raked up to good use.

oi, nvm, the city just came and picked them up.

more on the way just wait hahaha

 

[posthuman]

There should be an emoji for "insightful".

i think i kind of use the medal one for that.. or the heart

 

[John146]

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.
God sent a preacher to declare His word. The people responded. This only happens when God is working. Salvation is always the same. It involves the word of God and the Spirit of God. If God doesn't circumcise a heart, there is no salvation.
I realize you place the emphasis on what men do. I do agree that men are to respond to God. But a response void of an inward change is merely drawing nigh unto God with one's lips while the heart remains far from Him.

The word of God is powerful, no doubt. But, people don't always respond to the word of God. If the people of Nineveh did not respond, they would have been overthrown in forty days.

The heart is circumcised upon believing the gospel, not before. That much is clear, even though the RCC Calvin doctrine says otherwise.

 

[Magenta]

Can we have some leafmen for a change? I could put these leaves I just raked up to good use.

oi, nvm, the city just came and picked them up.

I saw a number of leafmen coming up to the 31st of October... .

 

[Cameron143]

The word of God is powerful, no doubt. But, people don't always respond to the word of God. If the people of Nineveh did not respond, they would have been overthrown in forty days.

The heart is circumcised upon believing the gospel, not before. That much is clear, even though the RCC Calvin doctrine says otherwise.

The reason for believing this is because the natural man neither seeks after God nor can receive the things of God.

 

[Magenta]

The reason for believing this is because the natural man neither seeks after God nor can receive the things of God.

Deuteronomy 30:6~ The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love Him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.

 

[John146]

The reason for believing this is because the natural man neither seeks after God nor can receive the things of God.

One verse taken out of context...

Did the disciples not know anything spiritual during Christ's earthly ministry? King Agrippa knew and believed the scriptures, and yet, he had no Holy Spirit.

27 King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest.

 

[Cameron143]

One verse taken out of context...

Did the disciples not know anything spiritual during Christ's earthly ministry? King Agrippa knew and believed the scriptures, and yet, he had no Holy Spirit.

27 King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest.

It was 2 verses...Romans 3 and 1 Corinthians 2.
I believe the disciples were saved, except Judas. And Agrippa was not persuaded. Read on in the story. His hearing was not mixed with faith so it didn't profit him...Hebrews 4:2. No faith, no activity of God.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Why would I declare plainly WHAT I consider "essential when it is plainly obvious that all Christian essentials are essential?

what would you say to someone who hadn’t ever read the gospel ? If they asked you the question “ what do I need to do to be saved ?”

what would your answer be ? Would it still be “ you need to believe the Christian essentials “

but what if they were asking you “ what are those essentials your talking about ?”

would you then tell them to believe the Christian essentials ? Are there any essentials ? If so what are those essentials your avoiding talking about ?

 

[John146]

I believe the disciples were saved, except Judas.

Before receiving the Holy Spirit? Remember, they did not receive the Spirit until Acts.

 

[Cameron143]

Before receiving the Holy Spirit? Remember, they did not receive the Spirit until Acts.

They didn't receive the promise of the Father until Acts. No one is saved apart from the word or Spirit.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

One verse taken out of context...

Did the disciples not know anything spiritual during Christ's earthly ministry? King Agrippa knew and believed the scriptures, and yet, he had no Holy Spirit.

27 King Agrippa, believest thou the prophets? I know that thou believest.

why was Paul talking about the prophets asking agrippa if he believed ?

“For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭11:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them,

Thus it is written, ( this is the understanding of the scriptures of the le and prophets Jesus is giving them )


and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:



and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:44-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

paul was asking about the prophets because they are witnesses of the gospel he was bout to start preaching Christ to him and was going to use the prophets and law to do it like he did here

“And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭28:23-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Paul constantly quotes from Moses law and the prophets in his epistles because they are about Christ and his kingdom just as much as the epistles are

“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; and he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:19-24‬ ‭

Paul was simply arguing for Christ from the prophets and law that are prophetic about Jesus that’s why he brought them up to Agrippa you have to find a point someone can start where they believe in order to preach the gospel to them

for example if someone believes there is no god nothing you tell them about God sending his son is going to be received if they first believe in God and that God is who he said he is like this

“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:6‬ ‭

the prophets establish that God exists and that he is a rewarder of those who seek him therefore Paul eas establishing g a foundation to begin persuadin sgrippa of Christ out of the law and prophets they are the most powerful witnesses of Christ in the Bible those ot scriptures

 

[PaulThomson]

Me: "
You are not digging deep enough and logically enough. You claim God does not change. If God looking from your supposed timeless eternal state does not change in any way over all of history and seeing all of history from everlasting to everlasting in one timeless now, and he is angry with someone at some point in history, how does he escape from being angry with them from everlasting to everlasting. And if he is pleased with someone else at some point in time, how does He escape from being pleased with them from everlasting to everlasting.

Maybe it is your God who is chained in a cave and bound to His eternal inability to change. Open theism does not have these kinds of logical paradoxes to contend with."

it is a human anger that is angry with other people.
God's anger is kindled by wickedness, not by a person.

To give s specific example - "Ex. 4:14 "And the anger of the LORD was kindled AGAINST MOSES... "
Was God angry at Moses. posthuman?
So the question is, is God angry at Moses incessantly in your theoretical eternity. According to your theories, God cannot change in your theoretical eternity. Therefore he must be eternally beginninglessly and endlessly angry at Moses, and at the wickedness that is always playing out forever before his all-time-seeing eyes. This must be his eternal attitude to wickedness and sinners, which he was eternally suffering even before there was any wicked people to be angry at, because nothing had yet been created.He cannot stop being angry at Moses without changing, can He..

Do you not agree. If not, why not?