10 Questions about OSAS
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Are you also a member of the Christianity Board who goes by the avatar name, "Big Boy Johnson?" He just asked the same question in exactly the same manner, font size, color and italics on the Christianity Board and he has the same purpose as you, "relentlessly attack OSAS and believers in the OSAS camp." 
Isn't it his choice to use whatever name he pleases?
How did you find him?
Should I check out how many sites YOU post on?
Firstly, It doesn't matter how many sites or how many names he uses.... It's none of our business & doesn't matter.
If you want it to matter, maybe we should check YOU out next, because I KNOW you're on other sites.
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Romans 11:22
New Living Translation
Notice how God is both kind and severe. He is severe toward those who disobeyed, but kind to you if you continue to trust in his kindness. But if you stop trusting, you also will be cut off.
English Standard Version
Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
New American Standard Bible
See then the kindness and severity of God: to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; for otherwise you too will be cut off.
All the epistles are to the saints, not the fakes. Here's the context:
17But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the [j]rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
Christians must continue in the faith to be accepted, because we've been given the ability by God to do so.
New Living Translation
Notice how God is both kind and severe. He is severe toward those who disobeyed, but kind to you if you continue to trust in his kindness. But if you stop trusting, you also will be cut off.
English Standard Version
Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
New American Standard Bible
See then the kindness and severity of God: to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; for otherwise you too will be cut off.
All the epistles are to the saints, not the fakes. Here's the context:
17But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the [j]rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
Christians must continue in the faith to be accepted, because we've been given the ability by God to do so.
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If you mean by the ability that Christ dwells richly in us then you are right. It is a mistake Christians make that they have the ability to live the Christian life apart from Christ. He must be living in us for us to please God...I live, yet not I; Christ lives in me...
When we are saved, we aren't endowed with power independent of God. We were never made to live apart from God. Adam and Eve, before the fall, walked with God each day. This is a picture of walking in the Spirit. We were made by God for God.
When we are saved, we aren't endowed with power independent of God. We were never made to live apart from God. Adam and Eve, before the fall, walked with God each day. This is a picture of walking in the Spirit. We were made by God for God.
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We had God's favor to become saved, otherwise there would have been no chance without grace.
Now by that same grace & faith given us by God, we are become the Sons of God, to do what He has called us to do.
Every day, we still choose to do His will or not, & I personally have failed Him many times, not because I couldn't perform it, but because I did my own thing.
All anyone has to do is look up how we are to continue in the faith, and you'll find Romans 11:22. There are much more than just the one, & they all speak against OSAS.
Now by that same grace & faith given us by God, we are become the Sons of God, to do what He has called us to do.
Every day, we still choose to do His will or not, & I personally have failed Him many times, not because I couldn't perform it, but because I did my own thing.
All anyone has to do is look up how we are to continue in the faith, and you'll find Romans 11:22. There are much more than just the one, & they all speak against OSAS.
Many verses in the Bible can be understood variously. How often on this site do people consider the same verse and come to completely opposite understandings? How is this possible?
It happens because rather than allowing the Spirit to lead us into truth, we understand the verse or verses according to currently held beliefs. This is true of us all from time to time.
You obviously believe that OSAS is a false doctrine, and there are many verses that teach so. And yet, there are many verses that seem to teach the opposite of this.
Without going into this particular argument, when you come across verses in general that seem to conflict with other verses, what process do you employ to reconcile the perceived differences?
It happens because rather than allowing the Spirit to lead us into truth, we understand the verse or verses according to currently held beliefs. This is true of us all from time to time.
You obviously believe that OSAS is a false doctrine, and there are many verses that teach so. And yet, there are many verses that seem to teach the opposite of this.
Without going into this particular argument, when you come across verses in general that seem to conflict with other verses, what process do you employ to reconcile the perceived differences?
That's the lie the devil keep claiming!
God's wrath comes upon the children of disobedience
We are called as believers to be obedient to the Lord... here's what happens to those that refuse to abide IN Christ and walk in agr5eement with Him in disobedience...
Colossians 3:5
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience
Ephesians 5:6,7
Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Hebrews 3:8-12
Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
Hebrews 4:1.2
Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Hebrews 4:11
Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Romans 2:7-11
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
For there is no respect of persons with God.
Ignore the Lord's warnings and instructions at your own peril ..
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And yet... God's Word specifically teaches we are called unto God works... and doing evil works causes one to be disqualified which Paul talked about concerning himself! (the OSAS peoples hate this cause they cannot explain way what Paul said about himself!)
1 Corinthians 9:27
I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Castaway (G0096 in Strong's) =
unapproved, rejected, worthless, reprobate.
This is the same greek word used in Romans 1:28 when the Lord turned those over to a reprobate mind who refused retain God in their knowledge and walk with Him.
This means, Paul believed that if he did not control himself and went back to walking after the flesh HE would be unapproved, rejected, worthless, reprobate!
Obviously the Apostle Paul did not believe in "once saved, always saved" aka "eternal security"
Called to Good Works
Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Galatians 6:9-10
And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
Hebrews 13:16
But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.
Luke 6:35
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
Matthew 7:18-20
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Romans 2:5-11
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
For there is no respect of persons with God.
1 Timothy 6:17-19
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
Psalm 34:14
Depart from evil and do good; Seek peace and pursue it.
2 Timothy 2:20,21
But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
James 2:14-20
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 3:13
Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
1 Peter 3:10-12
For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.
For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
2 Corinthians 9:8
And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
Colossians 1:9,10
For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
2 Timothy 3:16,17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. Colossians 3:5
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Romans 8:13,14
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
2 Thessalonians 1:8
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1 Corinthians 6:19, 20
Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have of God, and you are not your own....for you are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
1 Peter 1:13-16
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ… As obedient children, not fashioning (agreeing with) yourself according to the former lusts in your ignorance… But as He which has called you is holy, so be yourself holy in all manner of lifestyle… Because it is written, Be holy; for I am holy.
1 Corinthians 9:27
I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Castaway (G0096 in Strong's) =
unapproved, rejected, worthless, reprobate.
This is the same greek word used in Romans 1:28 when the Lord turned those over to a reprobate mind who refused retain God in their knowledge and walk with Him.
This means, Paul believed that if he did not control himself and went back to walking after the flesh HE would be unapproved, rejected, worthless, reprobate!
Obviously the Apostle Paul did not believe in "once saved, always saved" aka "eternal security"
Called to Good Works
Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Galatians 6:9-10
And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.
Hebrews 13:16
But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.
Luke 6:35
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
Matthew 7:18-20
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Romans 2:5-11
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
For there is no respect of persons with God.
1 Timothy 6:17-19
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
Psalm 34:14
Depart from evil and do good; Seek peace and pursue it.
2 Timothy 2:20,21
But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
James 2:14-20
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
James 3:13
Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
1 Peter 3:10-12
For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.
For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.
2 Corinthians 9:8
And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:
Colossians 1:9,10
For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;
2 Timothy 3:16,17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. Colossians 3:5
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:
Romans 8:13,14
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
2 Thessalonians 1:8
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1 Corinthians 6:19, 20
Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have of God, and you are not your own....for you are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
1 Peter 1:13-16
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ… As obedient children, not fashioning (agreeing with) yourself according to the former lusts in your ignorance… But as He which has called you is holy, so be yourself holy in all manner of lifestyle… Because it is written, Be holy; for I am holy.
Just like I said here. I looked up the word 'continue', & found several NT scriptures about 'continue in the faith.'
Paul writes in different epistles about doing so, & the phraseology means the same in all of them.
Many christians don't know the scriptures well enough to remember particular phrases to search them out.
Others will simply parrot what they've been taught for years & never look anywhere else, because they are afraid they will discover the truth.
I'm a Pentecostal, & it took me years to learn to search for myself & quit believing lies I've been told.
NEVER believe someone, no matter how popular, or how close a friend they are to you; the arm of flesh will always fail you.
Paul writes in different epistles about doing so, & the phraseology means the same in all of them.
Many christians don't know the scriptures well enough to remember particular phrases to search them out.
Others will simply parrot what they've been taught for years & never look anywhere else, because they are afraid they will discover the truth.
I'm a Pentecostal, & it took me years to learn to search for myself & quit believing lies I've been told.
NEVER believe someone, no matter how popular, or how close a friend they are to you; the arm of flesh will always fail you.
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Romans 11:22
New Living Translation
Notice how God is both kind and severe. He is severe toward those who disobeyed, but kind to you if you continue to trust in his kindness. But if you stop trusting, you also will be cut off.
English Standard Version
Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
New American Standard Bible
See then the kindness and severity of God: to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; for otherwise you too will be cut off.
All the epistles are to the saints, not the fakes. Here's the context:
17But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the [j]rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
Christians must continue in the faith to be accepted, because we've been given the ability by God to do so.
New Living Translation
Notice how God is both kind and severe. He is severe toward those who disobeyed, but kind to you if you continue to trust in his kindness. But if you stop trusting, you also will be cut off.
English Standard Version
Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
New American Standard Bible
See then the kindness and severity of God: to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; for otherwise you too will be cut off.
All the epistles are to the saints, not the fakes. Here's the context:
17But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the [j]rich root of the olive tree, 18 do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. 19You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
Christians must continue in the faith to be accepted, because we've been given the ability by God to do so.
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There's something I'd like to know... Is it his choice to post on as many sites he wants?
Isn't it his choice to use whatever name he pleases?
How did you find him?
Should I check out how many sites YOU post on?
Firstly, It doesn't matter how many sites or how many names he uses.... It's none of our business & doesn't matter.
If you want it to matter, maybe we should check YOU out next, because I KNOW you're on other sites.
Isn't it his choice to use whatever name he pleases?
How did you find him?
Should I check out how many sites YOU post on?
Firstly, It doesn't matter how many sites or how many names he uses.... It's none of our business & doesn't matter.
If you want it to matter, maybe we should check YOU out next, because I KNOW you're on other sites.
Introduction to the Straw Man Argument:
The problem here is your first statement - when you start by stating what we believe... that's NOT what we believe.
"If a once truly born again believer can’t possibly go back to sin and go to hell"
Your entire 10 points, which are questions about our initial belief... is based on something that is NOT our initial belief.
You entire 10 points are based on a "straw man" argument.
Example:
a.) If I said, "Jimmy, since you believe the moon is made of cheese, how do you account for all these inconsistencies?"
b.) You would correctly state, "Hey, I never said the moon was made of cheese."
c.) Well, that's exactly what you've done to us. It's called a straw man argument.
- Before you attack or question someone's position, you have to correctly state their position.
- If you do not, you're attacking a false position, an imaginary position.... that is called a straw man argument.
God Bless.
.
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How about a little context. The Jews were in the olive tree to begin with because they were the "natural branches" and not because they were all saved. Because of their unbelief and hard hearts God removed His gracious hand from them as a people overall and broke them off from His goodness (but only for a time after which they will be restored - Romans 11:24-26).
We Gentiles have now been grafted into God's goodness and are the recipients of His blessings. Paul's warning is that we should not become arrogant because we might lose the goodness and blessings of God just like the Jews lost the goodness and blessings of God.
Professing Christians who are Gentiles are corporately in outward covenant with Christ so, it would appear that Romans 11 is speaking about the question of collective ecclesiology and not individual soteriology. I see the warning to this collective body, which is corporately joined to Christ and is in a covenant relationship, but how could this mean that every individual in it is in saving union with Christ? Hence the "cut off."
Union with Christ applies to the elect, and only for the elect are, "the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable." (verse 29) But since non-elect covenant members are mixed in, Christ clearly appears to have non-elect branches, like Judas Iscariot (John 15:1-8) and while they may be joined outwardly in covenant with Christ, since they have professed faith in Jesus, the faith of some of them is spurious because they were never truly saved to begin with, even though they were among genuine believers. (1 John 2:19).
We Gentiles have now been grafted into God's goodness and are the recipients of His blessings. Paul's warning is that we should not become arrogant because we might lose the goodness and blessings of God just like the Jews lost the goodness and blessings of God.
Professing Christians who are Gentiles are corporately in outward covenant with Christ so, it would appear that Romans 11 is speaking about the question of collective ecclesiology and not individual soteriology. I see the warning to this collective body, which is corporately joined to Christ and is in a covenant relationship, but how could this mean that every individual in it is in saving union with Christ? Hence the "cut off."
Union with Christ applies to the elect, and only for the elect are, "the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable." (verse 29) But since non-elect covenant members are mixed in, Christ clearly appears to have non-elect branches, like Judas Iscariot (John 15:1-8) and while they may be joined outwardly in covenant with Christ, since they have professed faith in Jesus, the faith of some of them is spurious because they were never truly saved to begin with, even though they were among genuine believers. (1 John 2:19).
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