Is it a moral or legal obligation to pay a debt to a bank?

[posthuman]

You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed. Then you should have put my silver with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest.

i believe the punctuation there is incorrect.

It should read,

you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed?

As a question, a rhetorical question because the master is not wicked - the wicked servant is lying to him and making a false accusations.

 

[posthuman]

By engaging in usury, I hold that one forfeits any moral high ground to demand payment after bankruptcy proceedings, but I see you indicate you believe bankruptcy fulfills one's obligations, so I suppose we reach the same conclusion, albeit by different methods.

No one should be demanding any further payment after bankruptcy; that process completes the contract.

but usurious or not, if you entered into a binding contract both parties have both legal and moral obligations to keep their word and honor the contract - this is why Paul says to the Galatians if they allow themselves to be circumcised after they have become Christians, they are liable to the whole law. they can't just I debt themselves to the parts of the contract they like and not be under the rest - same issue with sabbatarians.

 

[posthuman]

good

My point was more that usury was not permitted within the land. It is a type of plunder. It was permitted externally, to other nations (e.g. enemies, but yes, this doesn't mean there is necessarily a literal war going on). See how Leviticus describes the stranger or sojourner that lives in Israel as a brother (i.e. usury not permitted).

Leviticus 25:35 - 37
And if thy brother be waxen poor, and fallen in decay with thee; then thou shalt relieve him: yea, though he be a stranger, or a sojourner; that he may live with thee.
Take thou no usury of him, or increase: but fear thy God; that thy brother may live with thee.
Thou shalt not give him thy money upon usury, nor lend him thy victuals for increase.

good point!

 

[SpeakTruth101]

i believe the punctuation there is incorrect.

It should read,

you knew that I reap where I have not sown, and gather where I have not scattered seed?

As a question, a rhetorical question because the master is not wicked - the wicked servant is lying to him and making a false accusations.

Good point thank you for the correction!

 

[ResidentAlien]

Sure, why not? Picture taken at Capitol, Jan. 6, 2021. This is the level of idiocy we're dealing with.

 

[shittim]

Could be, because America badly needs a new Messiah to take on the godless Democrats..

View attachment 255349

Keep prayiing effectually, He can turn any siruation in a heartbeat and has obligated Himself to limit Himself to what we invite Him into.
best wishes Dropship

 

[tourist]

If banks do it, it's called fractional reserve banking.

Fictional reserve banking might be a more apt term.

 

[Rockson]

A friend of mine many years ago went through the process of declaring bankruptcy. He wanted the bank debt not to be a part of it and it wasn't, with the thought once he got his financial life in line he'd go back and pay the bank. A couple years later his financial state improved and he had so many thousands of dollars he wanted to pay back to the bank. He went in there to do that and they looked on the computer and told him NOPE you don't owe us anything . There's no record you do! Well he knew this wasn't true and kept on them but they kept saying nope nothing owing and they couldn't take his money even if they wanted to. Well I think what probably happened is they just cleared off the debt from their files so as not to have a record of giving a bad loan. So....he was stuck keeping the money. True Story.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Around 2008 when the market crash and people were losing their homes, many people filed for bankruptcy. I remember some banks posting that debtors had a moral obligation to pay their debt, no matter what the law said. My answer to them were, banks are not moral. The law gives exemptions to protect people's income. I believe Jesus would say....."What does the law say?" You follow the laws. The banks have to follow the same laws we do. There is no moral obligation to the banks. How say you?

"Morals" are nothing more than a HUMAN INVENTION. they change with the tides, and have no solid foundation whatsoever. they're only a statement about what the MAJORITY in the prevalent society "Thinks".

The Bible doesn't BOTHER with "morals". It concentrates on SIN, and Righteousness, which are all that matters.

The Old Testament rule was - if you STEAL, you repay double.

In 2023, you do that which the Holy Spirit impresses you to do.

 

[oyster67]

Is it a moral or legal obligation to pay a debt to a bank?


Sure. It is mandatory to honor our oaths. That's a no-brainer. (Or am I missing something? )

OK -I see.. Its an either/or thingy.

I'm gonna say "BOTH".

 

[Diakonos]

Around 2008 when the market crash and people were losing their homes, many people filed for bankruptcy. I remember some banks posting that debtors had a moral obligation to pay their debt, no matter what the law said. My answer to them were, banks are not moral. The law gives exemptions to protect people's income. I believe Jesus would say....."What does the law say?" You follow the laws. The banks have to follow the same laws we do. There is no moral obligation to the banks. How say you?

You are obligated to do anything you sign your name to.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

You are obligated to do anything you sign your name to.

Yup - that covers it nicely!!!

 

[JimmyTheLock]

I believe Jesus would say....."What does the law say?".... There is no moral obligation to the banks.

This is amazing how someone claiming to know the Lord... but curiously doesn't know what the Lord says in His Word! Weird!

As others have rightly pointed out... you signed a contract which is giving your word that you would repay, and to go back and refuse to repay is not only stealing but it's also being a liar too. Sad.

This sort of thing is why most Christians have become the laughing stock of the world!

Trucebreakers
Plural form of trucebreaker
noun
1. One who violates a truce, covenant, or engagement.

2 Timothy 3:1-5
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

 

[JohnB]

This is amazing how someone claiming to know the Lord... but curiously doesn't know what the Lord says in His Word! Weird!

As others have rightly pointed out... you signed a contract which is giving your word that you would repay, and to go back and refuse to repay is not only stealing but it's also being a liar too. Sad.

This sort of thing is why most Christians have become the laughing stock of the world!




2 Timothy 3:1-5
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

That same contract says the bank or credit card company can sue me. I'm fine with that,. They did and I had nothing they could take. The law also gave me rights to protect what little I have.

 

[JohnB]

You are obligated to do anything you sign your name to.

I followed the laws. I am also within the law, the right to protect what little I have.

 

[JimmyTheLock]

That same contract says the bank or credit card company can sue me. I'm fine with that,. They did and I had nothing they could take. The law also gave me rights to protect what little I have.

And your witness for the the Lord.... is garbage!

Those around you that are watching you because you say you are a Christian who stands for what is right... see you ripping off the bank and they now think Christians are idiots that should be avoided.

 

[Cameron143]

And your witness for the the Lord.... is garbage!

Those around you that are watching you because you say you are a Christian who stands for what is right... see you ripping off the bank and they now think Christians are idiots that should be avoided.
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Very often people criticize others for the very thing they are doing. Perhaps you should have placed logs in your bulging eyes.

 

[JohnB]

And your witness for the the Lord.... is garbage!

Those around you that are watching you because you say you are a Christian who stands for what is right... see you ripping off the bank and they now think Christians are idiots that should be avoided.
View attachment 257452

Banks and credit card companies don't have any morals. they would bring back debtors and poor houses if they could. I'm sure you would have no problem with that.

 

[Diakonos]

I followed the laws. I am also within the law, the right to protect what little I have.

You should not follow laws that lead you to sin.
You have rights within the moral boundary of Scripture. You may not go beyond it.

“It is better not to make a vow than to make one and not fulfill it.” (Ecc 5:5)

“Let your word be, ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond these is of evil.” (Matt 5:36–37)

“However, if you refrain from vowing, it would not be sin in you.” (Deut 23:22)

“Do not be among those who become guarantors for debts.
If you have nothing with which to pay, Why should he take your bed from under you?” (Prov 22:26–27)
​

You are obligated to fulfill your vows, John, no matter how hard it is. You reap what you sow.

 

[JimmyTheLock]

Banks and credit card companies don't have any morals. they would bring back debtors and poor houses if they could. I'm sure you would have no problem with that.

Oh I see... we're back in third grade again!

When the Teacher tells us to quit misbehaving, we reply "but they were doing it too!"

Real Christians understand that when we give our word... we are supposed to keep our word just like Jesus does.... cause we are called to be conformed to the image of God's Son (Romans 8:29) and then follow Him as dear children (Ephesians 5:1).... You need to up your game!

Sadly you have sinned and apparently claim you have not and as such have refused to ask the Lord to forgive you for lying and being involved in fraud..

Sure it may be a tough situation where you don't have a good enough job to pay it all back but at this point you should ask the Lord to forgive you so He can cleanse you of this unrighteousness and then don't enter in to any more contracts in the future. (don't take money promising to pay them back and then refusing to pay them back later)

Proverbs 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

If one doesn't confess and forsake their sin, they still on the hook for their sin!
This means there's no hedge of protection around you and the demons are circling like vultures!

Also... God is not mocked, what we sow is what we reap.... so, since you have stolen from others... others be gonna steal from you which explains the financial quandary you are in now not being able to get ahead financially.

You were saying earlier to had to protect what little you have now... since you reap what you have sown, there's an open door to the devil to take some of that from you so... brace yourself!

Or, you could confess and forsake your sin and get the hedge of protection back... you're call.