Do our words carry the same power as God?

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Your assuming I haven't already studied it. I'm asking you to gain your understanding and to see how much you have studied the topic of each question. You made the claim so I ask you to explain your reasoning.

No, I mean ask God to make it happen in your life, not just study it - that's just head knowledge if you don't see it for yourself. A lot of people read the Bible but don't allow it become real in their lives. Jesus didn't do many miracles in unbelieving towns remember? It's like that with individuals too.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

“And the LORD said unto Moses, Stretch out thine hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.

And Moses stretched forth his hand toward heaven; and there was a thick darkness in all the land of Egypt three days:”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭10:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The power is in gods word the creators word

“And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:3‬ ‭

The greatest faith jesus encountered in all Israel understood his word is the power

“And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him. The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed.

For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.

When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.

But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭8:7-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The centurion understood gods word is what determines things if he speaks it it cannot fail if we speak it independent of his Will and word it will fail always

 

[Edify]

Misused one scripture? The whole theology of WOF or Name it Claim it is unbiblical by official doctrinal statements made by the leaders or past leaders of these movements.

Sure if you look you may find something biblical but if 90% is error then id rather just find a different church.

I never said one scripture... you did that yourself.
You seem to find all the perfect examples of false doctrines & judge every Pentecostal church because of them.
Maybe you don't understand that's how the devil gives all churches a bad name. I would be careful not to do what he does otherwise you will look like you're teaming up with him.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

No, I mean ask God to make it happen in your life, not just study it - that's just head knowledge if you don't see it for yourself. A lot of people read the Bible but don't allow it become real in their lives. Jesus didn't do many miracles in unbelieving towns remember? It's like that with individuals too.

I spent a year and a half at a church who did claim this stuff. I went to honestly try to see was what they taught legitimate. I sat in events with a so called prophet and deliverance minister. I still keep an eye on what they promote including bringing in an apostle and someone to teach how to speak the prophetic.

I had enough first hand experience to make my stomach sick. Even fell prey just for a short few weeks thinking my chronic pain may just be a step in faith away from being healed. So I prayed, had some one lay hands, and got the pastor to pray over me. After his prayer he said move around do something that normally causes pain. I said, “It didn't work”. He said lets pray harder. Again nothing.

It is legalism at best and teaches bondage for those they prey on. You have to do this and this to maybe be healed. If your not healed then you did something wrong or someone didn't have enough faith.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I never said one scripture... you did that yourself.
You seem to find all the perfect examples of false doctrines & judge every Pentecostal church because of them.
Maybe you don't understand that's how the devil gives all churches a bad name. I would be careful not to do what he does otherwise you will look like you're teaming up with him.

If the majority fall under the false doctrines then do they get a free pass from criticism just because a few are more moderate?

The movement has flooded into a term called hyper-Charasmatic/Pentecostalism.

There are rising groups now seeking help under the term OPCS (Overcoming Post Charasmatic Stress).

 

[Cameron143]

If the majority fall under the false doctrines then do they get a free pass from criticism just because a few are more moderate?

The movement has flooded into a term called hyper-Charasmatic/Pentecostalism.

There are rising groups now seeking help under the term OPCS (Overcoming Post Charasmatic Stress).

I suffer from NICS...nose in corner stress. I blame my parents.

 

[Edify]

It amazes me that folks want to label multiple churches under the same category as false churches because of their "experiences".
I get it. I've been burned,too. But I'm not going to judge them all because of a hand full. I wouldn't want to receive the judgment of God for such.
NO bad experience is worth judging others who are innocent. That's taking something bad & making it worse with our bitterness & unforgiveness. Those poisoned by it end up spewing the same poison on others.
Burned christians need to be delivered from unforgiveness & the bitterness that follows.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

My old church made much of these same claims but never had evidence to back them up. I asked for medical documentation to rule out natural causes and they would never provide it.

CHuckle!!! Told ya!! I knew it was a waste of time when I wrote it.

All pointing back to the Azusa Street revival that has led to many false teachings including a Christian having a demon.

Parenthetic: Born Again Christians are as easily "Demonized" as any body else. The Greek that the KJV translates "Possessed" actually says "Demonized" - to be tormented by, or to be under the influence of demonic entities. Obviously Born again Christians are susceptible to that at many different levels, depending on Spiritual Maturity, and/or Bible knowledge. Paul wouldn't caution against "giving place" to the enemy if you couldn't. Sometimes the "Ministry of deliverance" is needed to get 'em free.

Modern scandals of Hillsong and it's 35 year association to AG or Bethal of 51 years of association. It seems when scandals get to a peak they are forced to leave the denomination.

Jim and Tammy Bakker, and Jimmy Swaggart were another cases, when they got in trouble as AG Ministers.

May 12, 2022 Officials at a small Pentecostal church in San Jose, California, confirmed that a 3-year-old girl died within their walls last September after undergoing a botched exorcism,

What was common in WOF circles was parents witholding Insulin from diabetic children because "they'd been healed".

Here locally a child was seriously sick, and the WOF church claimed his healing, but he kept getting worse, and finally the father rushed him to the hospital - too late. The father was then accused by the pastor of murdering his son with his "unbelief".

Hobart freeman's "Body count" in his "Faith fellowship" congregation (Warsaw Indiana) was well over 100 by the time that Hobart died from a treatable infection that God had "Healed him of".

With so much fake testimonies and false teachings I left the Charismatic church.

The Holy Spirit driven "Charismatic outpouring" rolled on from 1964 to 1978 or so like all times of refreshing / revivals. God sends them, they roll on for a while, and then they go away, but leave their "deposit". SOME FOLKS try to keep 'em going (which is impossible, and leads to extremism, and heresy). Personally, I re-associated with the AG, where I still am. The AG doesn't "define me", but I find their "Package" quite acceptable. Growing from zero to over 70 million world wide through missionary efforts in 100 years is pretty impressive.

What's interesting is that the "Pentecostal revival" 1900-1910 or so spawned MANY "Pentecostal denominational systems" (the LARGEST being the AG), but the "Charismatic outpouring" didn't. Charismatic "churches" tend to be independent, and there's no major denominational corporations - which makes sense. For about a decade, us Charismatics weren't "Denominational" - just Christians worshipping together. in Central Ohio Charismatic meetings (FGBMFI) were generally about 50% Born Again Roman Catholic. I was "Baptized in the Holy Spirit" after being prayed for at an FGBMFI breakfast meeting.

Sure some may be real but I'd prefer to drain the waste water and keep the baby. So I went somewhere gospel focused.{/quote]

So did I.

dominionism demands it to bring Christ's Kingdom on Earth through subjecting the 7 mountains of Seven Mountain theology.

Whatever that all means.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

No! Our words do not have the same power.
I said let there be light on time and then stepped on a leggo because it was still dark. The light switch was on the other side on the room.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

It amazes me that folks want to label multiple churches under the same category as false churches because of their "experiences".
I get it. I've been burned,too. But I'm not going to judge them all because of a hand full. I wouldn't want to receive the judgment of God for such.
NO bad experience is worth judging others who are innocent. That's taking something bad & making it worse with our bitterness & unforgiveness. Those poisoned by it end up spewing the same poison on others.
Burned christians need to be delivered from unforgiveness & the bitterness that follows.

I'm judging the doctrines. If whomever falls under false teaching then we are to Biblically address that. Many of the NT letters address false teachers.

Ad hominem attacks does nothing but distract from the fact does the Bible tell us to speak against false teachers or not?

You may disagree with my OP despite it being common knowledge but I know you can not honestly say the Bible doesn't teach us to promote errors.

 

[notmyown]

Jesus didn't do many miracles in unbelieving towns remember?

i've often thought of that as a kindness toward them. they had SO much light; the Light of the world among them, and they rejected Him.
performing the miraculous would have served to increase their condemnation.

 

[notmyown]

@Roughsoul1991

John Bunyan wrote, "The best prayer i ever prayed had enough sin to damn the whole world."

i dunno... it seems appropriate to the thread, our words and all.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

CHuckle!!! Told ya!! I knew it was a waste of time when I wrote it.



Parenthetic: Born Again Christians are as easily "Demonized" as any body else. The Greek that the KJV translates "Possessed" actually says "Demonized" - to be tormented by, or to be under the influence of demonic entities. Obviously Born again Christians are susceptible to that at many different levels, depending on Spiritual Maturity, and/or Bible knowledge. Paul wouldn't caution against "giving place" to the enemy if you couldn't. Sometimes the "Ministry of deliverance" is needed to get 'em free.



Jim and Tammy Bakker, and Jimmy Swaggart were another cases, when they got in trouble as AG Ministers.



What was common in WOF circles was parents witholding Insulin from diabetic children because "they'd been healed".

Here locally a child was seriously sick, and the WOF church claimed his healing, but he kept getting worse, and finally the father rushed him to the hospital - too late. The father was then accused by the pastor of murdering his son with his "unbelief".

Hobart freeman's "Body count" in his "Faith fellowship" congregation (Warsaw Indiana) was well over 100 by the time that Hobart died from a treatable infection that God had "Healed him of".



The Holy Spirit driven "Charismatic outpouring" rolled on from 1964 to 1978 or so like all times of refreshing / revivals. God sends them, they roll on for a while, and then they go away, but leave their "deposit". SOME FOLKS try to keep 'em going (which is impossible, and leads to extremism, and heresy). Personally, I re-associated with the AG, where I still am. The AG doesn't "define me", but I find their "Package" quite acceptable. Growing from zero to over 70 million world wide through missionary efforts in 100 years is pretty impressive.

What's interesting is that the "Pentecostal revival" 1900-1910 or so spawned MANY "Pentecostal denominational systems" (the LARGEST being the AG), but the "Charismatic outpouring" didn't. Charismatic "churches" tend to be independent, and there's no major denominational corporations - which makes sense. For about a decade, us Charismatics weren't "Denominational" - just Christians worshipping together. in Central Ohio Charismatic meetings (FGBMFI) were generally about 50% Born Again Roman Catholic. I was "Baptized in the Holy Spirit" after being prayed for at an FGBMFI breakfast meeting.

Parenthetic: Born Again Christians are as easily "Demonized" as any body else. The Greek that the KJV translates "Possessed" actually says "Demonized" - to be tormented by, or to be under the influence of demonic entities.

The number one lie starts here.

Daimonizomai, and the only translation I find for the Greek interlinear is still best translated as demonic possession. Possession best fits the context of verses containing the word daimonizamai because the individual being demonized is not operating in free will.

To combat the idea that Christians can have a demon or share space with the Holy Spirit y'all have to start by changing the word.

Obviously Born again Christians are susceptible to that at many different levels, depending on Spiritual Maturity, and/or Bible knowledge. Paul wouldn't caution against "giving place" to the enemy if you couldn't. Sometimes the "Ministry of deliverancDeliveranced to get 'em free.

Paul only says do not give satan a foothold by sinning. An obvious denotation to temptation. Spiritual warfare is real, oppression is real but for the Christian we are bodily temples for the Holy Spirit. There is a reason God either left the physical temple or someone died from sin if evil was brought unatoned into the Holy of Holies. They do not mix. There is no instance of an individual delivering themselves from a demon.

Hobart freeman's "Body count" in his "Faith fellowship" congregation (Warsaw Indiana) was well over 100 by the time that Hobart died from a treatable infection that God had "Healed him of".

As to why I am very serious about addressing this stuff.

Growing from zero to over 70 million world wide through missionary efforts in 100 years is pretty impressive.

Number can not define truth though. Look at Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.

What's interesting is that the "Pentecostal revival" 1900-1910 or so spawned MANY "Pentecostal denominational systems" (the LARGEST being the AG), but the "Charismatic outpouring" didn't. Charismatic "churches" tend to be independent, and there's no major denominational corporations - which makes sense. For about a decade, us Charismatics weren't "Denominational" - just Christians worshipping together. in Central Ohio Charismatic meetings (FGBMFI) were generally about 50% Born Again Roman Catholic. I was "Baptized in the Holy Spirit" after being prayed for at an FGBMFI breakfast meeting.

True it is better define as a movement which is where things get messy because everyone will have differing beliefs in some areas as to why most go under cover as independent until you sit there for awhile and realize oh they teach these certain doctrines.

Where I draw the line is hyper teachings. I can stomach a good bit of it because all denominations or movements have things I disagree with.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

No! Our words do not have the same power.
I said let there be light on time and then stepped on a leggo because it was still dark. The light switch was on the other side on the room.

You have to have the clap-your-hands model.

 

[ResidentAlien]

The claim that Jesus didn't do many miracles among certain people because of their unbelief is smoke and mirrors. Word of Faithers and other so-called miracle workers don't do miracles even among those who supposedly believe. They claim to do a lot of things, but when it gets right down to it they actually do nothing. It's all a con.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

@Roughsoul1991

John Bunyan wrote, "The best prayer i ever prayed had enough sin to damn the whole world."

i dunno... it seems appropriate to the thread, our words and all.

Great works by Bunyan but I wonder what he meant as a Christian where Christ paid the debt of sin. A prayer of ignorance maybe? If so, then as a finite human limited by space and matter all our prayers are ignorant to some degree.

 

[notmyown]

Great works by Bunyan but I wonder what he meant as a Christian where Christ paid the debt of sin. A prayer of ignorance maybe? If so, then as a finite human limited by space and matter all our prayers are ignorant to some degree.

i don't think he felt condemned by his prayer. he knew the Power of Christ. i think he was just saying that even as saved people, we are yet far from perfect image bearers. our words are yet far from Christlikeness.
but One Day....

 

[Edify]

The claim that Jesus didn't do many miracles among certain people because of their unbelief is smoke and mirrors..

Is it?
Matt 13:53And when Jesus had finished these parables, he went away from there, 54and coming to his hometown he taught them in their synagogue, so that they were astonished, and said, “Where did this man get this wisdom and these mighty works? 55Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? 56And are not all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?” 57And they took offense at him. But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his hometown and in his own household.” 58And he did not do many mighty works there, because of their unbelief.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Is it?

58And he did not do many mighty works there, because of their unbelief.

That verse has no bearing on what's happening today. Word of Faith so-called miracle workers can't do any "mighty works" even among believers, no matter what they claim.

 

[Edify]

That verse has no bearing on what's happening today. Word of Faith so-called miracle workers can't do any "mighty works" even among believers, no matter what they claim.

While that is true, the scripture is also for today.