Do our words carry the same power as God?

[Aaron56]

Idk the Bible if studied properly only leaves one truth.

Sola Scriptura is useful but even the scriptures do not constrain themselves the way sola scriptura does. There is one Truth. He is a person. But He cannot be fully found in the Bible. No book can contain all of Him. (This is not an endorsement of any other books.) Would you rather read a book about your wife or be with her together? The Bible leads us to Christ. Christ in us leads us into a relationship with Him.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Sola Scriptura is useful but even the scriptures do not constrain themselves the way sola scriptura does. There is one Truth. He is a person. But He cannot be fully found in the Bible. No book can contain all of Him. (This is not an endorsement of any other books.) Would you rather read a book about your wife or be with her together? The Bible leads us to Christ. Christ in us leads us into a relationship with Him.

I politely disagree. The Bible is the source with which everything must align. The Bible is what God wants us to know. Outside revelation or outside feeling only go as far as they must match scripture. The Bible is the Word of God, the only source of truth, without error, and 100% authoritative.

If you come to me and say something beyond scripture that was obtained by subjective experience then I would ignore it. Now if your experience compliments scripture then I would look at it as inspiration.

But everything rises or falls on scripture.

 

[Aaron56]

I politely disagree. The Bible is the source with which everything must align.

Even the Bible makes no such claim. It is infallible, sure, but even the books the Pharisees had were infallible and they couldn’t recognize the Lord in their midst. I guess they… didn’t study hard enough??? Even though many could recite the verses by memory.

There is One to whom all must align. Know Him and you’ll know the way.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Even the Bible makes no such claim. It is infallible, sure, but even the books the Pharisees had were infallible and they couldn’t recognize the Lord in their midst. I guess they… didn’t study hard enough??? Even though many could recite the verses by memory.

There is One to whom all must align. Know Him and you’ll know the way.

Honestly, I think the only reason the Pharisees couldn't recognize God is because they were more focused on their position as leaders rather than getting to know God, loving Him and living for Him. That's why no matter how much they "studied" scripture, they were just going through the motions and probably memorizing it at best. So when He actually appeared, they didn't recognize Him!

But look at the people who did! They probably didn't get to study the scripture as much as the Pharisees did, but they had an honest desire to know God - this is why they were able to "recognize" Him when He showed up.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Even the Bible makes no such claim. It is infallible, sure, but even the books the Pharisees had were infallible and they couldn’t recognize the Lord in their midst. I guess they… didn’t study hard enough??? Even though many could recite the verses by memory.

There is One to whom all must align. Know Him and you’ll know the way.

A Pharisee is very different than a Christian who has the Holy Spirit.

2 Timothy 3:15-16
English Standard Version

15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

 

[Aaron56]

A Pharisee is very different than a Christian who has the Holy Spirit.

2 Timothy 3:15-16
English Standard Version

15 and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,

Ah, so you need the Spirit, too.
You didn’t receive Him by reading the Bible. That’s my point.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Ah, so you need the Spirit, too.
You didn’t receive Him by reading the Bible. That’s my point.

Will the Spirit contradict scripture?

John 16:12-15 ESV
“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.


2 Timothy 3:16-17 ESV
16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

God's Spirit draws people to the Word so that they may be perfect or complete. Scripture completes us.

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Will the Spirit contradict scripture?

John 16:12-15 ESV
“I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine; therefore I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.


2 Timothy 3:16-17 ESV
16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

God's Spirit draws people to the Word so that they may be perfect or complete. Scripture completes us.

Yeah, God's miracles don't contradict what is in the Bible. That's why holy laughter, being "slain in the spirit" and such other manifestations are not from God.

I know you guys aren't talking about that, but it is an important point.

 

[Aaron56]

Will the Spirit contradict scripture?


2 Timothy 3:16-17 ESV
16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Of course the Spirit will not contradict scripture. That’s not the dichotomy. You’re saying the Bible is all one needs but the Bible actually claims otherwise.

For example, it’s the “teaching, reproof, correction, and training in righteousness” that makes one complete and equipped for good work. The scriptures are profitable for these things. This requires elders who watch over your soul. The teaching, reproof, correction and training come from them. There are myriad examples of this from Jesus to John to Paul, etc. A man will not correct himself or reproof himself or train himself. Even Paul was trained for 14 years before being released as an apostle by the Spirit. Paul then taught, corrected, etc. the churches. He guided Timothy and then Titus, etc. The scriptures are rife with these examples.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Of course the Spirit will not contradict scripture. That’s not the dichotomy. You’re saying the Bible is all one needs but the Bible actually claims otherwise.

For example, it’s the “teaching, reproof, correction, and training in righteousness” that makes one complete and equipped for good work. The scriptures are profitable for these things. This requires elders who watch over your soul. The teaching, reproof, correction and training come from them. There are myriad examples of this from Jesus to John to Paul, etc. A man will not correct himself or reproof himself or train himself. Even Paul was trained for 14 years before being released as an apostle by the Spirit. Paul then taught, corrected, etc. the churches. He guided Timothy and then Titus, etc. The scriptures are rife with these examples.

I'm speaking of the Bible in the sense of truth. Of course, to be saved we must be sealed with the Spirit and the Spirit guides us within the truth (written Word). But not to reveal hidden or new revelation.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Yeah, God's miracles don't contradict what is in the Bible. That's why holy laughter, being "slain in the spirit" and such other manifestations are not from God.

I know you guys aren't talking about that, but it is an important point.

Agreed

 

[ResidentAlien]

It's times to get over the whole Pharisee thing; the comparison is completely baseless. The Pharisees didn't study the true scriptures; they studied the oral Torah and gave it more importance than the written Torah. Jesus never condemned anyone for studying and understanding God's true word. What He condemned were those who put their own traditions over and above God's word.

 

[Aaron56]

I'm speaking of the Bible in the sense of truth. Of course, to be saved we must be sealed with the Spirit and the Spirit guides us within the truth (written Word). But not to reveal hidden or new revelation.

The word "revelation" gets a bad wrap and is misused. It's not just scripture. It is also answered prayer or the leading of the Spirit. In fact, all of scripture remains head knowledge until we walk in it. Then, when we do, the fullness is revealed to us. But there is also who we are in the Lord. That specificity is not found in the scriptures. It is something the Spirit only knows.

For example, if we ask the Lord for a job and we get three offers which on do we take? Typically, a man will weigh the pros and cons of each, decide which choice benefits him and his family the most, and he will choose that one. But this is, at best, wisdom from below. It's not evil but carnal: any man on earth can use such means to make a decision and the Spirit is not required.

I knew a man. I walked with him closely. He wanted to speak with me about an opportunity as his work place. Before he spoke I said to him what I saw in the Spirit "Whatever your decision, it is clear the Lord is increasing your influence over people." With that simple word he knew what to do.

Later, he had another opportunity. He came to speak with me again. This was a much bigger one which included complete ownership of a company. He was an honorable man and a good boss. Such people the Lord puts over others so they might benefit from his character. He did his due diligence and checked out the finances first. I saw this an an opportunity to not only prosper him but to also answer the desire of his wife's heart: she wanted her children close. He decided to purchase the company and now all their children work within the company. One child even moved back from living 1000 miles away.

These things were not written in the Bible, per se, but it is written that the Lord knows the most minute details of our lives. Our direction is not left to chance or to carnal endeavors like brainstorming or simply laying the template of past experiences upon potential opportunities. Being led by the Spirit requires that we know His mind in the moment. It's our Father's pleasure to reveal things to us. I have that on good account:

"Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does..."

 

[Roughsoul1991]

The word "revelation" gets a bad wrap and is misused. It's the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does..."

The word "revelation" gets a bad wrap and is misused. It's not just scripture. It is also answered prayer or the leading of the Spirit. In fact, all of scripture remains head knowledge until we walk in it. Then, when we do, the fullness is revealed to us. But there is also who we are in the Lord. That specificity is not found in the scriptures. It is something the Spirit only knows.

But yet if anything so called spiritual was to contradict or add to scripture we are to resist or ignore it. If fact, that is a huge problem in the church right now. A lot of so called spiritual experience but ignorance and error in interpretation.

I knew a man. I walked with him closely. He wanted to speak with me about an opportunity as his work place. Before he spoke I said to him what I saw in the Spirit "Whatever your decision, it is clear the Lord is increasing your influence over people." With that simple word he knew what to do.

But you see how did you know that God works that way? Muhammad thought an angel guided him in creating Islam.

You know God works that way because scripture confirms it. The supernatural realm is not just God but Satan as well. Scriptural you can even see Satan mimicking God's miracles during the first few plagues and a fortune teller who was pestering Paul.

I saw this an an opportunity to not only prosper him but to also answer the desire of his wife's heart: she wanted her children close.

“I saw” Was it you who saw or God? What did God tell you and how?

Being led by the Spirit requires that we know His mind in the moment. It's our Father's pleasure to reveal things to us. I have that on good account:

How do we know His mind? Thankfully, God wrote down what is on His mind. The Spirit confirms and carries out God's mind. His will. His authority. Nothing is revealed other than the literature of prophecy with future Revelation events.

If we speak of revealing as in some have backstage passes to God while others are in the nosebleeds seats of the church that is essentially saying the temple curtain still stands but instead of physically every Christian must pass through a metaphorical curtain before receiving revelation beyond what is in scripture.

But as you can see this is why I also do not see God using modern Apostles or prophets. They are no longer required evidently from what the scriptures require for one to hold these positions.

 

[Aaron56]

But yet if anything so called spiritual was to contradict or add to scripture we are to resist or ignore it. If fact, that is a huge problem in the church right now. A lot of so called spiritual experience but ignorance and error in interpretation.




But you see how did you know that God works that way? Muhammad thought an angel guided him in creating Islam.

You know God works that way because scripture confirms it. The supernatural realm is not just God but Satan as well. Scriptural you can even see Satan mimicking God's miracles during the first few plagues and a fortune teller who was pestering Paul.



“I saw” Was it you who saw or God? What did God tell you and how?



How do we know His mind? Thankfully, God wrote down what is on His mind. The Spirit confirms and carries out God's mind. His will. His authority. Nothing is revealed other than the literature of prophecy with future Revelation events.

If we speak of revealing as in some have backstage passes to God while others are in the nosebleeds seats of the church that is essentially saying the temple curtain still stands but instead of physically every Christian must pass through a metaphorical curtain before receiving revelation beyond what is in scripture.

But as you can see this is why I also do not see God using modern Apostles or prophets. They are no longer required evidently from what the scriptures require for one to hold these positions.

You missed the gist entirely. But, you're young and you seem to have a love of the Truth. Both will work in your favor as you mature.
Blessings.

 

[Niki7]

I never said I was translating it. I took my conclusion from the majority of translations that scholars have translated as demon-possessed. Sure you will have a minority of opinion to lessen the impact of the word but hermeneutically a word is translated based on context.

Yes. YOUR conclusion. My point exactly. Current Greek scholars say that translation is wrong. There is no minority of opinion. I don't think you can tell me anything about hermeneutics when you refuse to understand the facts here. Your research concludes with your opinion.

Opinions are not hermeneutics.

In every account in scripture, a demonic event gives off the implication of the loss of control.

Your idea of a loss of control seems to indicate the Gadarene demoniac as indicative of ALL demon activity which is truly very bad and very poor and very bad research. It seems you may not have read the article I referenced because the approach is conservative and far far above any approach or research you might be capable of.

No one here should take your word for it. That article very clearly outlines the problem with indicated possession as the operative word in dealing with demonic interference in a life or even a nation. Are all Muslims possessed? Yet we see very clearly that they are greatly influenced by demons. You do not seem able to give credit to the ability of actual experts to come to a conclusion that is not your opinion.

Demons are not fleeing from anyone who insists they are not influenced by them. That, is influence right there...not possession...but clearly influence and to some extent we are all under demonic influence. That, is clearly in scripture.

If you call yourself a teacher, you have a greater responsibility than the rest of us and God will hold you to it. That is why scripture says we should not be eager to call ourself a teacher.

 

[Niki7]

I'm judging the doctrines. If whomever falls under false teaching then we are to Biblically address that. Many of the NT letters address false teachers.

Ad hominem attacks does nothing but distract from the fact does the Bible tell us to speak against false teachers or not?

You may disagree with my OP despite it being common knowledge but I know you can not honestly say the Bible doesn't teach us to promote errors.

This is very dangerous territory. You cannot judge clearly or you would not dismiss all the teaching on the demonic in scripture. What standard do you judge by? Your opinion? You clearly indicate that what you conclude is your opinion. Please do not pass that on to others who are demonstrably searching for truth.

The Bible actually disagrees with your op. You clearly cannot identify what you describe as false teaching and then refer to you own conclusions.

I wonder though, if you see that

 

[Niki7]

For the record, I am not a word of faith adherent but the Bible is clear that our words have impact. Far too many people rely on what others say or teach and imagine themself to be 'studied up' or they conduct their own 'studies' and conclude they are correct.

Far too often that results in false teaching, false information and a false sense of security.

 

[Niki7]

I spent a year and a half at a church who did claim this stuff. I went to honestly try to see was what they taught legitimate. I sat in events with a so called prophet and deliverance minister. I still keep an eye on what they promote including bringing in an apostle and someone to teach how to speak the prophetic.

I had enough first hand experience to make my stomach sick. Even fell prey just for a short few weeks thinking my chronic pain may just be a step in faith away from being healed. So I prayed, had some one lay hands, and got the pastor to pray over me. After his prayer he said move around do something that normally causes pain. I said, “It didn't work”. He said lets pray harder. Again nothing.

It is legalism at best and teaches bondage for those they prey on. You have to do this and this to maybe be healed. If your not healed then you did something wrong or someone didn't have enough faith.

That is a minority of people claiming this. I am familiar with that type of thing and it is not scriptural.

Assumption is not faith and God is not obligated towards us but He does still heal people today.

 

[Niki7]

Burned christians need to be delivered from unforgiveness & the bitterness that follows.

So so true!