Predestination; are fates set in some cases?

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J

John146

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DJT_47 said:
But God knows, by his foreknowledge, in advance, who will and who will not be saved.
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Scripture please? Btw, God's foreknowledge of something is not God choosing it to occur.
 
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DJT_47

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John146 said:
Scripture please? Btw, God's foreknowledge of something is not God choosing it to occur.
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All those presented that relates to God's omniscience as well as those pertaining to his foreknowledge. Unless you're suggesting that God doesn't know the future and is as dumb as we are and simply reacts, which is absurd.
 
J

John146

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DJT_47 said:
All those presented that relates to God's omniscience as well as those pertaining to his foreknowledge. Unless you're suggesting that God doesn't know the future and is as dumb as we are and simply reacts, which is absurd.
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I'm suggesting that God has chosen not to know things. Is this possible?
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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John146 said:
I'm suggesting that God has chosen not to know things. Is this possible?
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No. It's hyperbole. You can't be both omniscient and not know something. A good example is where God says He remembers our sins no more. It's a statement of exaggeration to convey the extent of His forgiveness.
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Cameron143 said:
No. It's hyperbole. You can't be both omniscient and not know something. A good example is where God says
He remembers our sins no more. It's a statement of exaggeration to convey the extent of His forgiveness.
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He chooses not to bring them to mind... once they are covered by the shed righteous blood of Jesus.
 
J

John146

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Cameron143 said:
A good example is where God says He remembers our sins no more. It's a statement of exaggeration to convey the extent of His forgiveness.
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I take it as a statement of truth. There is no reason not to take it as truth. God chooses not to remember our sins. I believe he said what he meant, and meant what he said.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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John146 said:
I take it as a statement of truth. There is no reason not to take it as truth. God chooses not to remember our sins. I believe he said what he meant, and meant what he said.
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Choosing not to remember is different from Choosing not to know, which is what your original post said.

I apologize for the bold print. It was accidental.
 
J

John146

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DJT_47 said:
Yeah, sure. That's ridiculous.
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Let's take a biblical example from the book of Jonah. Did God lie? Did God change his mind?

Jonah 3:
9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
 
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DJT_47

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John146 said:
Let's take a biblical example from the book of Jonah. Did God lie? Did God change his mind?

Jonah 3:
9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
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What does this mean? That God did not know in advance they would repent, or that God was ignorant and didn't know and therefore was reactive to what they did?
 
J

John146

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DJT_47 said:
What does this mean? That God did not know in advance they would repent, or that God was ignorant and didn't know and therefore was reactive to what they did?
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If God knew in advance Nineveh would repent, would that make him a liar? Did God say that in forty days they would be overthrown? After forty days, were they overthrown?

4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.
 
NightTwister

NightTwister

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#214
John146 said:
I'm debunking this whole, predestination thing to salvation. Predestination has nothing to do with one getting saved, but everything to do with those already saved.

Ephesians 1: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Having predestinated believes, those in Christ, unto the adoption. How does scripture define the adoption?

Romans 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. The adoption is something the believer has been promised. It is the future redemption of the body.
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Debunk fail.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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John146 said:
If God knew in advance Nineveh would repent, would that make him a liar? Did God say that in forty days they would be overthrown? After forty days, were they overthrown?

4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.
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No. God has always brought judgment on sin, but also has always responded to repentance...a humble and contrite heart He will not despise. God certainly would have destroyed the Ninevites had they not repented. In this sense, He repented or turned away His wrath from them. But if you believe God is omniscient, by definition you must also believe He knows all things. That's part of what is entailed in being Alpha and Omega.
 
J

John146

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Cameron143 said:
No. God has always brought judgment on sin, but also has always responded to repentance...a humble and contrite heart He will not despise. God certainly would have destroyed the Ninevites had they not repented. In this sense, He repented or turned away His wrath from them. But if you believe God is omniscient, by definition you must also believe He knows all things. That's part of what is entailed in being Alpha and Omega.
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God declared that in forty days, Nineveh would be overthrown. In forty days, Nineveh was not overthrown. One of two things occurred:

1. God lied
2. God changed his mind

10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
 
D

DJT_47

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Oct 20, 2022
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John146 said:
If God knew in advance Nineveh would repent, would that make him a liar? Did God say that in forty days they would be overthrown? After forty days, were they overthrown?

4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown.
5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them.
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It's a matter of record for readers of the scriptures. It doesn't mean God didn't know in advance. If God was simply reacting to events, how do explain all the scriptures relating to prophesy? God would not be an all knowing God and things would in fact therefore be hidden from him. Makes no sense. God is all knowing and limitless as the scriptures clearly teach. Keeping that in mind, we can't take a scripture or two to make the case to the contrary. Scripture does not contradict scripture. Doing so is exactly what people like to do when cherry picking scripture to refute the need for baptism as part of salvation instead of taking all pertinent scriptures into consideration. Sorry, you can believe God is somehow limited in his knowledge or foreknowledge in this case, but I don't.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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John146 said:
God declared that in forty days, Nineveh would be overthrown. In forty days, Nineveh was not overthrown. One of two things occurred:

1. God lied
2. God changed his mind

10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
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God acted according to His word and character. Even when God pronounces judgment, His preference is mercy.
Giving only 2 choices as you have doesn't account for the 2 choices God has always given. Just because God didn't explicitly say forgiveness was an option doesn't mean it wasn't.
 
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