How can one learn?

[Cameron143]

on the thread topic: how do we learn?

a teacher must be very patient, gentle, and meek
because we are all stupid, obstinate and vain.

that's me 100% included in the stupid, obstinate, vain category. warts and all, y'all

A skeleton with warts. What is the world coming to?

 

[posthuman]

2 Timothy 2:24-26

And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful.​

amen

 

[posthuman]

justification by works?

No thanks

 

[evyaniy]

as for me i think it is always worth trying to point someone towards light if i see there is any shadow of darkness.
when we plant a seed we may not see it grow for another season. even when we water, some plants spring up the next day, but others take a year before the care given to them evinces itself.

so i'll keep correcting you in your obsession over ps 119 as long as it takes, bro, for example


because the topic is how do we learn?
and the answer is through very very very very patient teachers

what? are you almost persuaded? if so, it is from Him.

 

[Rainrider]

justification by works?

Say what? I don't think anyone ever pointed to that. Although it is by ones works that they show their faith.

Jas 2:18¶Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

 

[Rainrider]

That right there is why conversing with your posts is not worthwhile. It is also evidence that the views are in many cases mistaken. It is given with an attitude of disdain for others and so is not worthy of consideration or reply in most instances. but please continue.

I know this may sound odd to you, however, even as Yeshua had thouse who hated Him for His truth, He also worned use that we would have. Just as we should always do our best to walk in His example, we should in times like this. After all did not tel His disciples to kick the dust from their feet when their teachings were rejected? There is little or difference here. Darkness hates light, were as light holds love and kindness. So by His example and instruction we should simply move on to the next one willing to test what they think they know. Mat.10:14, Mark 6:11, Luke 9:5, and Acts 13:51.
It shows a loving heart to just leave it be. It is after all a lot better than sitting around pocking a bear, when you have no idea what that bear may do.
Besides if they want to show how not follow Yeshua, and do their best to remove me let them have at it. I know that Yahovah will always stand by me. Is.54:17, and Rom. 8:31.
It is also commanded of to use love when correcting others. Rom.12:19.

 

[Rainrider]

• clean and unclean food
• circumcision
• acceptable places for altars / sacrifices
• priesthood

Would you be willing to debate this WITH OUT resorting to being hateful? After all once a person turns to hate it becomes clear they simply don't follow the teachings found anywhere in the Word.

 

[evyaniy]

I know this may sound odd to you, however, even as Yeshua had thouse who hated Him for His truth, He also worned use that we would have. Just as we should always do our best to walk in His example, we should in times like this. After all did not tel His disciples to kick the dust from their feet when their teachings were rejected? There is little or difference here. Darkness hates light, were as light holds love and kindness. So by His example and instruction we should simply move on to the next one willing to test what they think they know. Mat.10:14, Mark 6:11, Luke 9:5, and Acts 13:51.
It shows a loving heart to just leave it be. It is after all a lot better than sitting around pocking a bear, when you have no idea what that bear may do.
Besides if they want to show how not follow Yeshua, and do their best to remove me let them have at it. I know that Yahovah will always stand by me. Is.54:17, and Rom. 8:31.
It is also commanded of to use love when correcting others. Rom.12:19.

So many things could be said. It takes discipline not to say anything when it may not be productive. Will have to settle for that which is the proper response in many cases.

 

[evyaniy]

Have to wait this one out just like many times before. Debating accomplishes nothing except exercising egos as so many threads show.

 

[Rainrider]

Have to wait this one out just like many times before. Debating accomplishes nothing except exercising egos as so many threads show.

I am not sure your waiting for. As I know from the past incounters with some people, ignore them and they get tired of that fast. The poof their gone.
Ego can only play a roll if one thinks they know so much they can't be corrected. As for me, I know that what I think I know can be wrong, it just takes time to redirect anyone's thinking. Once a person has what they think of as truth, even if they seeking to be sure, and willing to change what they think they know, it takes time.
I am not here to run, and I am always willing to hear anther's point of view. Just as I know I will face questions, they should expect the same. However if we keep in mind that we are not here to argue, but learn. We can do so. However it is always a bad idea to try to kill a thread you didn't start, with rude behavior, and unfounded accusations.
That said, if you have something to bring up, please do. I will never try to force what I believe on any one. I will point out what the word tells us, and word with anyone that real to find the truth.

 

[posthuman]

Would you be willing to debate this WITH OUT resorting to being hateful? After all once a person turns to hate it becomes clear they simply don't follow the teachings found anywhere in the Word.

i don't understand what you find 'hateful' about a list of facts.

 

[posthuman]

• clean and unclean food
• circumcision
• acceptable places for altars / sacrifices
• priesthood

@Rainrider i did not have much time on my hands during the week, but on sabbath i have freedom.
so let me give scripture supporting these points - i simply presumed earlier you either knew them already or would go search them out.
then perhaps you won't consider the truth to be 'hateful' when the evidence is made more clear, yes?

• laws for clean and unclean food have changed over time.
  • Genesis 1:29 — Adam is given plants for food
  • Genesis 9:3 — Noah is given all flesh for food without restriction
  • Leviticus 11 — Israel is given distinction between clean and unclean meat
  • Mark 7:19, Acts 10, Romans 14 — all food is clean for a Christian with a clear conscience
• laws requiring circumcision have changed
  • Genesis 17 — circumcision is commanded physically long before the Law of Moses. in fact Moses is nearly killed by God for it, if not for the intervention of Zipporah.
  • Leviticus 12 —physical circumcision is reiterated in the Law of Moses
  • John 7:23 — circumcision precedes sabbath. very important!
  • Romans 2 — circumcision is "nothing"
  • Galatians 5 —physical circumcision is not only no longer required but can be sinful if carried out in order to keep the Law of Moses as justification
• laws concerning where animal sacrifices may be made have changed
  • prior to Exodus 20, there were no restrictions on how an altar could be built. Exodus 20 specifies details of construction of altars, immediately after the decalogue, giving it great import within the Law. but no restrictions on location of any altar is given.
  • Leviticus 17:3-6 — after the tabernacle is built, any sacrifice at any place other than the tabernacle is considered murder under the Law.
  • (same reference) after the temple is built, similarly all sacrifices must be made at the temple
  • John 4 —acceptable worship is unilaterally declared spiritual having no restrictions on location
  • Hebrews 10:26-27 — there are no more acceptable blood sacrifices, period, after Christ. this is a RADICAL change in Law.
• the law of priesthood has changed
  • Genesis 4 — Cain and Abel bring offerings with no intermediary priest whatsoever. this is a pattern repeated numerous times until Exodus 20
  • Genesis 14 — out of nowhere appears Melchizadek called "priest of the Most High God"
  • Exodus/Leviticus/Deuteronomy — tge tribe of Levi is declared the only acceptable priesthood
  • Hebrews 7 —the priesthood of Levi, which is an explicit matter of the Law given in the Torah, is dissolved and supplanted by the eternal priesthood of Jesus Christ. SPECIFICALLY stated is that it means the Law must be changed for the priesthood to change.

 

[posthuman]

@Rainrider i did not have much time on my hands during the week, but on sabbath i have freedom.
so let me give scripture supporting these points - i simply presumed earlier you either knew them already or would go search them out.
then perhaps you won't consider the truth to be 'hateful' when the evidence is made more clear, yes?

• laws for clean and unclean food have changed over time.
  • Genesis 1:29 — Adam is given plants for food
  • Genesis 9:3 — Noah is given all flesh for food without restriction
  • Leviticus 11 — Israel is given distinction between clean and unclean meat
  • Mark 7:19, Acts 10, Romans 14 — all food is clean for a Christian with a clear conscience
• laws requiring circumcision have changed
  • Genesis 17 — circumcision is commanded physically long before the Law of Moses. in fact Moses is nearly killed by God for it, if not for the intervention of Zipporah.
  • Leviticus 12 —physical circumcision is reiterated in the Law of Moses
  • John 7:23 — circumcision precedes sabbath. very important!
  • Romans 2 — circumcision is "nothing"
  • Galatians 5 —physical circumcision is not only no longer required but can be sinful if carried out in order to keep the Law of Moses as justification
• laws concerning where animal sacrifices may be made have changed
  • prior to Exodus 20, there were no restrictions on how an altar could be built. Exodus 20 specifies details of construction of altars, immediately after the decalogue, giving it great import within the Law. but no restrictions on location of any altar is given.
  • Leviticus 17:3-6 — after the tabernacle is built, any sacrifice at any place other than the tabernacle is considered murder under the Law.
  • (same reference) after the temple is built, similarly all sacrifices must be made at the temple
  • John 4 —acceptable worship is unilaterally declared spiritual having no restrictions on location
  • Hebrews 10:26-27 — there are no more acceptable blood sacrifices, period, after Christ. this is a RADICAL change in Law.
• the law of priesthood has changed
  • Genesis 4 — Cain and Abel bring offerings with no intermediary priest whatsoever. this is a pattern repeated numerous times until Exodus 20
  • Genesis 14 — out of nowhere appears Melchizadek called "priest of the Most High God"
  • Exodus/Leviticus/Deuteronomy — tge tribe of Levi is declared the only acceptable priesthood
  • Hebrews 7 —the priesthood of Levi, which is an explicit matter of the Law given in the Torah, is dissolved and supplanted by the eternal priesthood of Jesus Christ. SPECIFICALLY stated is that it means the Law must be changed for the priesthood to change.

so @Rainrider i have a great weight of evidence to reject your interpretation of Malachi.

God does not change.

His laws for men certainly do. one servant is required to do one thing, another is required to do something completely different. see Romans 14.

i am not being 'hateful' bro.
i am telling you the truth.

 

[posthuman]

Have to wait this one out just like many times before. Debating accomplishes nothing except exercising egos as so many threads show.

what does this post say about its authors own ego?
is this value-added or could the same result be accomplished by saying nothing at all?

publicly declaring "i should not reply to this" is less wise than simply not replying, IMO. the two options show very different goals.

each and every time i have criticized someone for vanity i have found myself face to face with my own. guard your heart, friend.

 

[posthuman]

I know this may sound odd to you, however, even as Yeshua had thouse who hated Him for His truth, He also worned use that we would have. Just as we should always do our best to walk in His example, we should in times like this. After all did not tel His disciples to kick the dust from their feet when their teachings were rejected? There is little or difference here. Darkness hates light, were as light holds love and kindness. So by His example and instruction we should simply move on to the next one willing to test what they think they know. Mat.10:14, Mark 6:11, Luke 9:5, and Acts 13:51.
It shows a loving heart to just leave it be. It is after all a lot better than sitting around pocking a bear, when you have no idea what that bear may do.
Besides if they want to show how not follow Yeshua, and do their best to remove me let them have at it. I know that Yahovah will always stand by me. Is.54:17, and Rom. 8:31.
It is also commanded of to use love when correcting others. Rom.12:19.

but the persistent, patient witness of the saints wins souls.

on thread topic, students whose teacher puts them on ignore, learn nothing but the cold, unloving indifference of their instructor.

Christ came to dwell among His people at a time He already knew they rejected Him in their hearts. His mercy and lovingkindness is everlasting!

love is patient, love is kind. love keeps no record of wrong.

 

[posthuman]

on thread topic, "how do we learn?"

ultimately:

Proverbs 20:12​

The hearing ear and the seeing eye, ​

The LORD has made them both.​

​

apologies if previously posted. post has not had opportunity to peruse every post.

 

[posthuman]

Now to live out the Torah one must keep every aspect of it, and one aspect is to not add to or take away from. Deut. 4:2.

so when you have a child do you sacrifice a lamb or two birds for your wife's uncleanness or do you say, Christ has taken away sacrifice?

jots and tittles, friend.
all or none. under the Law or not.

this is not hatefullness, but Truth.

 

[evyaniy]

What does Torah observant mean to those who endeavor to attain it in today's reality after the Son achieved our Salvation through His Sacrifice? People have used the term or alluded to it but not clearly defined what Torah observant entails. It would be helpful to understand what exactly it is, especially for those who believe in the Son as the Messiah.

 

[evyaniy]

what does this post say about its authors own ego?
is this value-added or could the same result be accomplished by saying nothing at all?

publicly declaring "i should not reply to this" is less wise than simply not replying, IMO. the two options show very different goals.

each and every time i have criticized someone for vanity i have found myself face to face with my own. guard your heart, friend.

There were 2 points to the reply. The second one was "Debating accomplishes nothing except exercising egos as so many threads show."

This thread was an example of that. It started off friendly, charming and endearing with thoughtful contributions in the early stages. It later escalated into an ugly slug fest that pretty much abrogated the opening tenor of the thread. That is how it works with debating most of the time. It also can be useful in understanding where the debaters are coming from and revealing their underlying compulsions and attitudes. So all good. As said before, have at it, but remember ego shows the real feelings from the heart which ain't always pretty.

 

[posthuman]

There were 2 points to the reply. The second one was "Debating accomplishes nothing except exercising egos as so many threads show."

This thread was an example of that. It started off friendly, charming and endearing with thoughtful contributions in the early stages. It later escalated into an ugly slug fest that pretty much abrogated the opening tenor of the thread. That is how it works with debating most of the time. It also can be useful in understanding where the debaters are coming from and revealing their underlying compulsions and attitudes. So all good. As said before, have at it, but remember ego shows the real feelings from the heart which ain't always pretty.

the real problem as always, how to keep that perfect command, "love one another"