How can one learn?

[Rainrider]

Nope, marrying someone you're merely "related" to is not "incest".
"Incest" is between brother and sister, and close family relations.
Not sure how you don't know that.
It makes me suspicious that you're not being honest.


No, Jesus said not to make any vow at all.
Marriage is not to include a vow, that's just cultural.
If not, show me the NT Scripture.


Under Torah, the Jews were permitted "any cause" divorce.
If the husband found something in her that he didn't like he could divorce her.
Jesus says "not anymore".


No, Jesus is "the prophet like Moses", and, accordingly, He is called a "Lawgiver".
Jesus is a Lawgiver--He is at the level to make Law.
He doesn't overturn Torah, but fulfills.
The Torah says, "Respect God, pay your vows--don't make frivolous vows."
Jesus says, "Respect God, do not make vows--it is an affront to the Majesty on High. Who do you think you are to make a promise that 'I will do this or that'? Just say 'yes' or 'no'. Anything beyond that is of the evil one--vows are of the evil one."
It's the same intent as Torah, but it is brought to a higher level.
Therefore, Christ is, in one way, overturning Torah, but, in another way, upholding Torah.

As I didn't repond to on part of this I came back to it. In the last part you say Yeshua is the Law giver. As such, He is bond by His own Laws. Now here's the part you will not like a bit. Keep in mind you will be arguing with Scripture not me. Then that is what has been going in this thread.
I will agree that Yeshua is the Law Giver, even though I don't think that is ever given in Scripture. At lest that I could find. I looked in 17 versions just be sure.
However if one looks we do find that Yahovah DID give the Laws, to Moses, not many will try to say that isn't true. Then if we look, John Chapter one makes it clear that Yeshua, and Yahovah are one in the same. I won't post the full chapter, however I will give the witness that is needed.

Jhn 1:1¶In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:10¶He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Jhn 1:14¶And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

From this it is safe to say that IF the Word is true in everything it say's then Yeshua and Yahovah are one in the same. Now to live out the Torah one must keep every aspect of it, and one aspect is to not add to or take away from. Deut. 4:2.
Now to change or amend is doing just that in some way. placing a sin upon the one we place our trusting faithfulness in for salvation. Thus making said means of salvation into question, as well as making it almost pointless to hope.
If you will slow down and truely study the Torah, and not just place out there what you hope will change my mind, then maybe what I think I know, can be shown wrong. Trust me it is not an impossible task, hard yes.
If we are to truly know that Yeshua is the sacrifice that washes away our sin, we must also believe He lived out the Torah in perfection.
Can Yahovah change His own laws? He can, only that would also place Him in violation of one of His own commandments. So again let me point this out.

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Num 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

 

[romans113336]

As I didn't repond to on part of this I came back to it. In the last part you say Yeshua is the Law giver. As such, He is bond by His own Laws. Now here's the part you will not like a bit. Keep in mind you will be arguing with Scripture not me. Then that is what has been going in this thread.
I will agree that Yeshua is the Law Giver, even though I don't think that is ever given in Scripture. At lest that I could find. I looked in 17 versions just be sure.
However if one looks we do find that Yahovah DID give the Laws, to Moses, not many will try to say that isn't true. Then if we look, John Chapter one makes it clear that Yeshua, and Yahovah are one in the same. I won't post the full chapter, however I will give the witness that is needed.

Jhn 1:1¶In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jhn 1:10¶He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
Jhn 1:14¶And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

From this it is safe to say that IF the Word is true in everything it say's then Yeshua and Yahovah are one in the same. Now to live out the Torah one must keep every aspect of it, and one aspect is to not add to or take away from. Deut. 4:2.
Now to change or amend is doing just that in some way. placing a sin upon the one we place our trusting faithfulness in for salvation. Thus making said means of salvation into question, as well as making it almost pointless to hope.
If you will slow down and truely study the Torah, and not just place out there what you hope will change my mind, then maybe what I think I know, can be shown wrong. Trust me it is not an impossible task, hard yes.
If we are to truly know that Yeshua is the sacrifice that washes away our sin, we must also believe He lived out the Torah in perfection.
Can Yahovah change His own laws? He can, only that would also place Him in violation of one of His own commandments. So again let me point this out.

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.
Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Num 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

I've already proven He changes His Law.

You can go back and read all about it.

Either you have a severe deficiency (in which case, it's not a smart investment to keep explaining myself), or you're just plain dishonest (in which case, again, it's not a smart investment to keep explaining myself). I've answered every question you've had, but you haven't taken the answers seriously.

I've done my part.

I've furnished answers to the lies you're afflicted with, so as to try to help you, and to protect readers.

 

[Rainrider]

I've already proven He changes His Law.

You can go back and read all about it.

Either you have a severe deficiency (in which case, it's not a smart investment to keep explaining myself), or you're just plain dishonest (in which case, again, it's not a smart investment to keep explaining myself). I've answered every question you've had, but you haven't taken the answers seriously.

I've done my part.

I've furnished answers to the lies you're afflicted with, so as to try to help you, and to protect readers.

It seems you woould rather just call names than answer honest answers. It's all good I know it goes that way. Once you find that your reply doesn't hold water, the name calling, belittlement, and all manner of hostile comes out. You never proved anything, It's all good though, I know this was coming from not just your past history with me, others as well. Now feel free to get the last word in, I am not going to bother with you anymore. After all, once the name calling and faults acusasions start, I know you have no leg to stand on.

 

[romans113336]

It seems you woould rather just call names than answer honest answers. It's all good I know it goes that way. Once you find that your reply doesn't hold water, the name calling, belittlement, and all manner of hostile comes out. You never proved anything, It's all good though, I know this was coming from not just your past history with me, others as well. Now feel free to get the last word in, I am not going to bother with you anymore. After all, once the name calling and faults acusasions start, I know you have no leg to stand on.

I don't know what your issue is, and, honestly, I don't care enough--the answers are supplied, the readers are protected, you have answers if you're interested, I've done my job.

As far as your false accusation that my arguments don't hold water: I can make the very same assertion (except it's true) about your "answers". You are abjectly ignorant in their worst way. You are detestably ignorant. I've provided you with answers I didn't get from others, but from prayer and reading, and fasting--answers you won't get anywhere else. Satisfactory answers--for any reasonable mind. You have no defense for your ignorance anymore.

 

[posthuman]

There is only one set of laws ever given, and it has not been changed in 5000 years or so

The Law was not until 430 years after Abraham -


Galatians 3:16-18
Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ. And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

 

[posthuman]

As they will, and can give compelling witness to their understanding, stand that the laws as we see them in the Torah were in fact in place before Sinai.

• clean and unclean food
• circumcision
• acceptable places for altars / sacrifices
• priesthood

 

[posthuman]

Can Yahovah change His own laws? He can, only that would also place Him in violation of one of His own commandments. So again let me point this out.

again let me point out that circumcision has clearly changed, clean/unclean food had clearly changed, requirements for animal sacrifices have clearly changed, requirements for where (or whether) one can build an altar have clearly changed, tithing has clearly changed, and the priesthood has clearly changed.

so I do not think you are correctly interpreting Malachi to say God cannot change law.

 

[evyaniy]

I don't know what your issue is, and, honestly, I don't care enough--the answers are supplied, the readers are protected, you have answers if you're interested, I've done my job.

As far as your false accusation that my arguments don't hold water: I can make the very same assertion (except it's true) about your "answers". You are abjectly ignorant in their worst way. You are detestably ignorant. I've provided you with answers I didn't get from others, but from prayer and reading, and fasting--answers you won't get anywhere else. Satisfactory answers--for any reasonable mind. You have no defense for your ignorance anymore.

That right there is why conversing with your posts is not worthwhile. It is also evidence that the views are in many cases mistaken. It is given with an attitude of disdain for others and so is not worthy of consideration or reply in most instances. but please continue.

 

[posthuman]

Can Yahovah change His own laws?

Hebrews 7:11-13​

Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has officiated at the altar.​

​

​

righteousness does not change,
but law certainly does.

 

[romans113336]

That right there is why conversing with your posts is not worthwhile. It is also evidence that the views are in many cases mistaken. It is given with an attitude of disdain for others and so is not worthy of consideration or reply in most instances. but please continue.

No, there is no one as blind as this guy--I haven't said this to anyone.

Have you even READ the answers I gave him?

 

[romans113336]

again let me point out that circumcision has clearly changed, clean/unclean food had clearly changed, requirements for animal sacrifices have clearly changed, requirements for where (or whether) one can build an altar have clearly changed, tithing has clearly changed, and the priesthood has clearly changed.

so I do not think you are correctly interpreting Malachi to say God cannot change law.

There is no answer he's looking for.

"Correct a divisive man once or twice then have nothing to do with him".

 

[romans113336]

That right there is why conversing with your posts is not worthwhile. It is also evidence that the views are in many cases mistaken. It is given with an attitude of disdain for others and so is not worthy of consideration or reply in most instances. but please continue.

"Correct a divisive man once or twice, then have nothing to do it him"

 

[Rainrider]

I find it ever so sad that' (thought not surprising) that when a person that claims to follow Yeshua turns a discussion into a name calling, belittlement, and deformation match. However as I made clear in the first post, I seen it coming. I do hope that everyone here has at least learned how not to act.

 

[romans113336]

I find it ever so sad that' (thought not surprising) that when a person that claims to follow Yeshua turns a discussion into a name calling, belittlement, and deformation match. However as I made clear in the first post, I seen it coming. I do hope that everyone here has at least learned how not to act.

You are a liar and deserve condemnation. I'm not surprised you have a long history of this sort of thing. You threaten the faith of others by rejecting truth. I'd be happy if you were banned. You are detestable.

 

[romans113336]

• clean and unclean food
• circumcision
• acceptable places for altars / sacrifices
• priesthood

Tell me if you've found a clearer example that God changes His Law, yet this scoundrel dares to rebel against the obvious truth, outrageously pretending there may be valid reasons for not believing, reasons for not submitting.

There are other issues that remain unclear, like OSAS, but this guy has nothing, no justification, for his rebellion.

No, that's not true:
a) Incest was a holy command (what else does it mean "be fruitful and multiply" other than "commit incest"?), before, but, today, as we all know, it's a work of the devil
b) Christ calls "taking of vows" "of the evil one", forbidding it, since it is vaunting oneself against God, as if one is anything in himself to make a vow--it is an offense to God's glory (Mt 5)
c) Christ denounces "any cause divorce" permitted in Torah as "adultery" today (Mt 19)

God gave many concessions under Torah--even the Temple was a concession--like "you can beat your slave to death as long as he doesn't die the same day"

 

[posthuman]

That right there is why conversing with your posts is not worthwhile. It is also evidence that the views are in many cases mistaken. It is given with an attitude of disdain for others and so is not worthy of consideration or reply in most instances. but please continue.

as for me i think it is always worth trying to point someone towards light if i see there is any shadow of darkness.
when we plant a seed we may not see it grow for another season. even when we water, some plants spring up the next day, but others take a year before the care given to them evinces itself.

so i'll keep correcting you in your obsession over ps 119 as long as it takes, bro, for example


because the topic is how do we learn?
and the answer is through very very very very patient teachers

 

[posthuman]

That right there is why conversing with your posts is not worthwhile. It is also evidence that the views are in many cases mistaken. It is given with an attitude of disdain for others and so is not worthy of consideration or reply in most instances. but please continue.

on the thread topic: how do we learn?

a teacher must be very patient, gentle, and meek
because we are all stupid, obstinate and vain.

that's me 100% included in the stupid, obstinate, vain category. warts and all, y'all

 

[romans113336]

on the thread topic: how do we learn?

a teacher must be very patient, gentle, and meek
because we are all stupid, obstinate and vain.

that's me 100% included in the atilupid, obstinate, vain category. warts and all, y'all

Yeah but "correct a divisive man once or twice, then have nothing to do with them" exists as well. Be patient with people who are honest, yes, but some people are not to be granted that.

 

[Cameron143]

on the thread topic: how do we learn?

a teacher must be very patient, gentle, and meek
because we are all stupid, obstinate and vain.

that's me 100% included in the stupid, obstinate, vain category. warts and all, y'all

2 Timothy 2:24-26

 

[evyaniy]

justification by works?