How can one learn?

Rainrider · Oct 5, 2023

Funny you bring that up. As we know we are all kin to one another, so should we stop having babies, and stop getting married, and so? Before you say we aren't, we all can trace our family tree back to Adam and Eve. Think about that.
Not all vows are evil, if they were then all marriage is based on the Devils work. Yet a marriage is intended to be a blood covenant. I know today that seems a bit out dated, and that not many are virgins when they marry, that doesn't change what the Bible teaches.
I will consed that we are not to take a vow and invoke any part of creation. That is made clear. However, not making a vow at all, that we can debate to the ends of the earth, and still come out with no consensuses.
You seem to think that any divorce brings adultery. However you fail to say that under the words of Yeshua fornication is grounds for divorce. Keep in mind that the Torah did give a lot of reasons for divorce, it also makes it clear that if you do this, you are not to remarry.
However with a bit more study on this topic, we find that marriage is a life time commitment, even the Torah backs this. What Yeshua did in Mat.5:31-32 was clear up the matter. Adultery has always been grounds for divorce, and remarriage has always been wrong. Unless the grounds for divorce is listed in Torah as not being so. If you will take some time to study this, you will see that most cases given, are not said to be spiritual grounds for divorce. If a women was put out over then non-spiritual grounds, her remarrying was not a sin. Why? She had done nothing wrong, other make her husband mad for what ever reason.
We must always take care placeing one passage in conflict with another. Yeshua could no more remove, or change Torah. Doing so would mean He has sinned. Deut. 4:2, as we know Yeshua had to be sin free or His sacrifice would mean nothing, and what we hang our salvation on would mean nothing.

romans113336 · Oct 5, 2023

Rainrider said:

Nope, marrying someone you're merely "related" to is not "incest".
"Incest" is between brother and sister, and close family relations.
Not sure how you don't know that.
It makes me suspicious that you're not being honest.

Rainrider said:

No, Jesus said not to make any vow at all.
Marriage is not to include a vow, that's just cultural.
If not, show me the NT Scripture.

Rainrider said:

Under Torah, the Jews were permitted "any cause" divorce.
If the husband found something in her that he didn't like he could divorce her.
Jesus says "not anymore".

Rainrider said:

No, Jesus is "the prophet like Moses", and, accordingly, He is called a "Lawgiver".
Jesus is a Lawgiver--He is at the level to make Law.
He doesn't overturn Torah, but fulfills.
The Torah says, "Respect God, pay your vows--don't make frivolous vows."
Jesus says, "Respect God, do not make vows--it is an affront to the Majesty on High. Who do you think you are to make a promise that 'I will do this or that'? Just say 'yes' or 'no'. Anything beyond that is of the evil one--vows are of the evil one."
It's the same intent as Torah, but it is brought to a higher level.
Therefore, Christ is, in one way, overturning Torah, but, in another way, upholding Torah.

Rainrider · Oct 5, 2023

romans113336 said:

I do, and as I pray for discernment, and understanding, I find that we as humans know so vary little. Yet many wish to give the impresion they themselves as holding all the understanding of Yahovah. Not everyone does this mind you. Thankfully there are some that understand they don't know it all, and are willing to test what they think they know.

Rainrider · Oct 5, 2023

posthuman said:

Then we should be thankful our sins are washed away.

Rainrider · Oct 5, 2023

posthuman said:

No it means we already now it. After all even a person that has never picked up a Bible knows what sin is.

Rainrider · Oct 5, 2023

posthuman said:

Please give chapter and veres on this.

Rainrider · Oct 5, 2023

turbosixx said:

I look foreword to it. However, be ready to face a lot of muddy water. There some that think they can show how smater they are by doing just that. As I am sure you can see on this thread.

Rainrider · Oct 5, 2023

studentoftheword said:

So --lets Look at your scripture in the Hebrew ------

Matthew 5:17

King James Version

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

Ancient Hebrew word for DESTROY -------SHACHATH

Hebrew word: שָׁחַת shachath
Meaning: Destroy; ruin; corrupt;

be rotted. to spoil,decay,be corrupt, marred, i.e., be ruined morally and so be in an impure state, as a figurative extension of an object being in a ruined or decayed condition bring to ruin------

Strong's Concordance in Hebrew for word ------ Destroy is Cthar

Strong's Concordance
cthar: destroy
figuratively, to demolish -
literally or figuratively -- be absent

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So now this word FULFILL ------Hebrew ----Mala

Ancient Hebrew ----
The Old Testament. The concept of fulfillment is expressed chiefly by the Hebrew words mala [ael'm], "fulfill, accomplish, terminate, " and kala [a'l'K], "be finished, completed."

Strong's Concordance --hebrew for fulfil -----

Strong's Concordance
male or mala: to be full, to fill
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
accomplish, confirm, consecrate, be at an end, be expired, be fenced, fill, fulfill,

I say ------------So what do we see ---we see the same as the Greek -posted -------Jesus didn't come to Demolish the law or to make the law absent ----He came to Fulfil it --------To bring it to and end ----to expire it ---to fence it in terminate it ----so we who accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour are not yoked to the Law anymore ---and here is the thing ---the laws were given to the Jews only ---the Gentiles were away from God and not included in God's Command to keep the law ------The laws counted 613 and that included the 10 commandment and if you broke one law you broke them all ------and the Jews today still try and keep the Laws that they can't keep --------

As far as the New Testament --some being written in Hebrew ----I Don't agree with that ---at all

I found this

Was the New Testament written in Greek or Hebrew first?

Greek
The New Testament was originally written in Greek. This claim is not particularly controversial among biblical scholars, though some have argued that parts of the New Testament were originally written in Hebrew or Aramaic

And this is an interesting read ---you can read all here --I just posted this -------

https://www.logos.com/grow/min-was-the-new-testament-written-in-hebrew-aramaic-or-greek/#:~:text=The New Testament was originally,written in Hebrew or Aramaic.

Manuscript evidence
Beyond this general linguistic background, the manuscript evidence is a crucial part of addressing the question of what language the New Testament was written in. Here, the evidence is unequivocal: the New Testament is a corpus of Greek compositions. The Institute for New Testament Textual Research has documented over five thousand Greek manuscripts containing parts (or all) of the New Testament, ranging from the second century AD into the early modern era. This Greek tradition ultimately was and is the source for all known translations of the New Testament into other languages, ancient and modern. This includes ancient translations into Latin, Coptic, Syriac, Ethiopic, Armenian, and Georgian. It also includes, of course, modern translations into countless languages around the world.

In sharp contrast, there are no ancient Hebrew manuscripts of the New Testament whatsoever. Some late-antique Jewish polemical works do include Hebrew translations of parts of the New Testament, but the earliest extant Hebrew version of a complete New Testament book is the fourteenth-century version of Matthew included in a polemical work by the Jewish scholar Shem Tov. This Hebrew version likely pre-dated Shem Tov, but it has many elements from Latin and medieval vernacular languages that prove that it is a late translation ultimately derived from the known Greek Matthew, rather than reflecting an original Hebrew version of the book.1 (The books of the New Testament have also been translated into Hebrew on multiple occasions in modern times, but these are irrelevant for the question of the original language of the New Testament.)

this is another good read ------

https://biblearchaeologyreport.com/2019/02/15/the-earliest-new-testament-manuscripts/

So How can one Learn ---my view

Ask the Holy Spirit for guidance when doing Research -and rely on the Holy Spirit to Give you the truth of what the scripture is saying to you Spiritually ------and ask for Spiritual discernment -----which is a gift of the Spirit --

You do know that for a word study to hold any true meaning it must tie back to the full passage, veres, chapter, and the whole of the Word right? to simple pull a word out, then do a word study on that word, means little. As of yet you have not given any real value to this discussion.

Rainrider · Oct 5, 2023

The_Watchers_2017 said:

I find that sad. To hope that a person can give the unadulterated truth. Even I know that what I think I know can be wrong. Although the only way to show me that I am wrong is the proper use of Scripture. By that I mean look at what it really says, and stop looking for what you hope it might say. I know over the years a lot of what I think I know has changed through that process.

Rainrider · Oct 5, 2023

romans113336 said:

It is clear that if the N.T. doesn't say it it isn't valid in your mind. However as it was explained to me, back when I thought that way, the Torah is the foundation that all Scripture holds as it's foundation. You will never force me to take an only N.T. stand on any thing.
I do understand the narrow meaning of incest. Just as I know full well that when man first came on the seen they had no choice but to inter marry. So if Yahovah said go forth and fill the earth, yet at the same time said, not with your sister, He would have a catch 22. You sin if you don't follow His comandment, yet if you do follow it your also sinning. He is not our government, and doesn't work that way.
marriage is a covenant. That being said, we must now remove marriage, as a covenant is a vow in of it's self. Then thats a whole new topic. One we can get into when ever your ready. However I am not going to undertake as many topics as there people out there to offer them up. I don't live on this silly box, and do have a life.
Now if you really feel I am not being honest, why bother with me at all? After all I am not changing my thinking just to make a person happy. I do back my teaching with Scripture, and openly admit I only think I know. Nothing dishonest there.

posthuman · Oct 5, 2023

Rainrider said:

Romans 14:23

Cameron143 · Oct 5, 2023

Rainrider said:

Romans 14:23.

Cameron143 · Oct 5, 2023

posthuman said:

You win.

posthuman · Oct 5, 2023

Rainrider said:

anyone at all, whether they believe in Christ or not?
how is that different from before coming to faith? did no one know whether lies, murders and theft was wrong until the Spirit dwelt in their hearts? did they need a written law to tell them wickedness is wicked?

but does anyone who has never picked up a Bible know they must go to Jerusalem for feasts every year, and tithe to Levite, and wear tassels on the corners of their garments, and be sprinkled with the ashes of a red heifer if they have become defiled by a dead body, or do no work on saturdays?
no, they don't. but those are all jots and tittles of the Law.

so are certain jots and tittles deleted?
or are the self-evident principles of righteousness for which no one has any excuse to transgress not the same as the Law given through Moses to Israel?
and is it that same Law of the covenant made at Sinai which God writes on the hearts of those in the new covenant He promised?

Pilgrimshope · Oct 5, 2023

Cameron143 said:

Amen Even more so in the context of what’s being said there

“Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: ( paul Knows this )

but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.( but if we believe certain food is unclean then it has become unclean only for us though we can’t judge others by our own convictions )

But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. Let not then your good be evil spoken of: for the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men. Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:13-20, 23‬ ‭

All things by faith food is important in Moses law clean and unclean foods mattered they defiles the eater according to the law but Paul understood food can’t make us unclean because Jesus taught that

“And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand: there is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

If any man have ears to hear, let him hear. And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:14-16, 18-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

paul is a believer of the gospel so he understands the lord doesn’t care about what type of food we eat , he cares about what we spend our time doing and thinking about and carrying around inside of our hearts and minds towards others if we’re harboring evil or sin is what he cares about not food those things are from Moses law and have no relevance now but some chrortoans dont understand that part thier convinced certain foods or certain days are more
Hoy than another this can of we let it become a division Paul’s answer is to let everyone believe about these matters what they believe and not argue about i material issues like food and drink and holy days pauos adressing this matter because they were disputing it and arguing

“Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

For one believeth that he may eat all things:

another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. ( it’s what we are convicted of about these trivial matters even if it differs sabbath days or clean foods ect irrelevant now we have Jesus )

He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. ( some honor the sabbath others see ot as a regular day and honor god as every day , some eat only certain foods and thank god for it others will eat anything and thank god for it both are accepted because of faith )

For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:1-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I do t have to answer for anyone else and what they believed and did only what I believed and did it’s what we are convicted of on our conscience and heart if we violate our beliefs about these matters it brings guilt……if we just look at Christ and his word those things go away and become trivial irrelevant matters and we start learning what god really does cere about in the gospel

Cameron143 · Oct 5, 2023

Pilgrimshope said:

Amen Even more so in the context of what’s being said there

“Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way. I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: ( paul Knows this )

but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.( but if we believe certain food is unclean then it has become unclean only for us though we can’t judge others by our own convictions )

But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died. Let not then your good be evil spoken of: for the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men. Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:13-20, 23‬ ‭

All things by faith food is important in Moses law clean and unclean foods mattered they defiles the eater according to the law but Paul understood food can’t make us unclean because Jesus taught that

“And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand: there is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

If any man have ears to hear, let him hear. And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?

And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:14-16, 18-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

paul is a believer of the gospel so he understands the lord doesn’t care about what type of food we eat , he cares about what we spend our time doing and thinking about and carrying around inside of our hearts and minds towards others if we’re harboring evil or sin is what he cares about not food those things are from Moses law and have no relevance now but some chrortoans dont understand that part thier convinced certain foods or certain days are more
Hoy than another this can of we let it become a division Paul’s answer is to let everyone believe about these matters what they believe and not argue about i material issues like food and drink and holy days pauos adressing this matter because they were disputing it and arguing

“Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

For one believeth that he may eat all things:

another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. ( it’s what we are convicted of about these trivial matters even if it differs sabbath days or clean foods ect irrelevant now we have Jesus )

He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. ( some honor the sabbath others see ot as a regular day and honor god as every day , some eat only certain foods and thank god for it others will eat anything and thank god for it both are accepted because of faith )

For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's. For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, And every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭14:1-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I do t have to answer for anyone else and what they believed and did only what I believed and did it’s what we are convicted of on our conscience and heart if we violate our beliefs about these matters it brings guilt……if we just look at Christ and his word those things go away and become trivial irrelevant matters and we start learning what god really does cere about in the gospel

Ok. We'll call it a win-win.

studentoftheword · Oct 5, 2023

Rainrider said:

Now------- that response is just

and The Biggest

-----Statement I EVER HEARD -----

Your showing that you are not really interested in what your thread title is about ------

How can one learn?

All I did was take a Scripture YOU POSTED to know the meaning of ---and gave you the meaning -----

Guess What--------- you didn't like the Truth of what you learned ------

And taking a word from the Scripture and looking it up in the Hebrew or Greek is critical to knowing how the word is used in the Scripture ------

For instance the word flesh has a couple of meaning in the scripture ----in some scripture it is used as the Flesh that coves our bones ---and in other scripture it is used as a way of thinking ------so in order to know what the word means in the scripture you need to look it up -------

so your statement here

to simple pull a word out, then do a word study on that word, means little.

I say Is foolish ---and will not help you with your Thread Title ------How can one learn -----searching a word in Scripture is Wisdom ------and brings knowledge -------and insight -----

So ------
How can one learn?

Do a Word study when your reading Scripture -------

What is the value of doing a word study in understanding the Bible?

https://www.gotquestions.org/word-study-Bible.html

The Bible, being literature, is comprised of words. For that reason, an understanding of the words themselves is basic to understanding what the Bible says.

A word study is a valuable tool in that it allows the student of the Bible to see how the same word is used throughout the Bible and in other literature of the same time.

OH I KNOW ___YOU WILL JUST SAY --------

As of yet you have not given any real value to this discussion.

Rainrider · Oct 6, 2023

posthuman said:

Yes even those that have as I said never picked up a Bible know that sin is wrong. They know to lie, cheat, steel, murder, and so is wrong. Just as we know the Yahovah is just in all He does, we know that His judgement of man will be as well.
As it seems you are hoping to find fault in what I say, at any cost, let me help you out. Before you place a thing before anyone, you should really know what your talking about. You see Gentiles are not required to make the pilgrimage for any of the Feast that require the Hebrew people to do so. Just as the Zit-zit is for the Hebrew people, so too is giveing tithes to the Levitates. We as gentiles give to the place where we learn. i.e. Your church, a yeshiva, if one would let you in, the television teacher so many follow today and so on.
As the Word tells us, in Mat. 5:18 not one jot or tittle will be removed. When the word tells us that THE LAW was written in our hearts, it means THE LAW. There is only one set of laws ever given, and it has not been changed in 5000 years or so. In fact there are some that would say it has not changed in close to 6000 years. As they will, and can give compelling witness to their understanding, stand that the laws as we see them in the Torah were in fact in place before Sinai.

Rainrider · Oct 6, 2023

studentoftheword said:

Now------- that response is just

and The Biggest

-----Statement I EVER HEARD -----

Your showing that you are not really interested in what your thread title is about ------

How can one learn?

All I did was take a Scripture YOU POSTED to know the meaning of ---and gave you the meaning -----

Guess What--------- you didn't like the Truth of what you learned ------

And taking a word from the Scripture and looking it up in the Hebrew or Greek is critical to knowing how the word is used in the Scripture ------

For instance the word flesh has a couple of meaning in the scripture ----in some scripture it is used as the Flesh that coves our bones ---and in other scripture it is used as a way of thinking ------so in order to know what the word means in the scripture you need to look it up -------

so your statement here

to simple pull a word out, then do a word study on that word, means little.

I say Is foolish ---and will not help you with your Thread Title ------How can one learn -----searching a word in Scripture is Wisdom ------and brings knowledge -------and insight -----

So ------
How can one learn?

Do a Word study when your reading Scripture -------

What is the value of doing a word study in understanding the Bible?

https://www.gotquestions.org/word-study-Bible.html

The Bible, being literature, is comprised of words. For that reason, an understanding of the words themselves is basic to understanding what the Bible says.

A word study is a valuable tool in that it allows the student of the Bible to see how the same word is used throughout the Bible and in other literature of the same time.

OH I KNOW ___YOU WILL JUST SAY --------

As of yet you have not given any real value to this discussion.

The truth holds no matter how a person sees it. Knowing the meaning of a word, in way translates into understanding a passage. After all, can one pick up Websters, read the everything about the Word engien, the go out and build one? Didn't think so.
In my mind the true cop out is thinking that by giving definitions you give the meaning of a passage.

Rainrider · Oct 6, 2023

The_Watchers_2017 said:

At times I feel you are right. As I do wish to stay on topic, I won't get into that right now. Just look closely at what is said, and how it goes, you will see it I am sure.

How can one learn?

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