How can one learn?

[Rainrider]

Law stood outside us to condemn the evil in us, the Spirit conforms us to God's will, working in us, so the Law outside can also agree with us.

As it should. After all once we openly except Yahovah we begin to change. Our minds, seek to do right by our Kings commandments.
Although I see small litter details we may differ on, and that has given me food for thought. When it comes to the big pitcher I think we are in agreement. Well mostly any way.
That said, would you be willing to look at Dan.9:27 with me? I know for sure I am lacking in my understanding of prophecy, although I do hold a view that may will not agree with. That tells me I need to look harder at what I may be missing. So once more I must look past what I think I know.

 

[romans113336]

I agree. It is nice to talk with someone that really knows the Biblical definition of the New Covenant. As it points to the heart of the matter. If the law was removed, and held on perpuse in our lives, why wirte it in our hearts and mins? I know that was a question you have already answered. LOL

Law stood outside us to condemn the evil in us, the Spirit conforms us to God's will, working in us, so the Law outside can also agree with us.

The Law, an external code, could never be a source of internal good--the Spirit is the source of internal good, and the Law stands by and affirms. The Law is a witness but nothing more. "And it will be your righteousness": Paul observes "not a righteousness of my own from the Law". How can good come from evil? But we're evil, enslaved to Sin, apart from Christ. So we're going to produce something we are not? Good? God alone is good! The righteousness of one's own from the Law is not a righteousness that comes from inside, it is not true righteousness, it is a superficial righteousness with filth underneath.

The Law was never a source of righteousness. It can't be. We're not pieces of paper. We're biological, spiritual human beings. The Law is not a spirit. The Spirit is a spirit, and the Spirit solves the Spiritual problem of spiritual death and uncleanness.

 

[romans113336]

As it should. After all once we openly except Yahovah we begin to change. Our minds, seek to do right by our Kings commandments.
Although I see small litter details we may differ on, and that has given me food for thought. When it comes to the big pitcher I think we are in agreement. Well mostly any way.
That said, would you be willing to look at Dan.9:27 with me? I know for sure I am lacking in my understanding of prophecy, although I do hold a view that may will not agree with. That tells me I need to look harder at what I may be missing. So once more I must look past what I think I know.

If you believe we're "under Law", we are worlds apart.

 

[romans113336]

As it should. After all once we openly except Yahovah we begin to change. Our minds, seek to do right by our Kings commandments.
Although I see small litter details we may differ on, and that has given me food for thought. When it comes to the big pitcher I think we are in agreement. Well mostly any way.
That said, would you be willing to look at Dan.9:27 with me? I know for sure I am lacking in my understanding of prophecy, although I do hold a view that may will not agree with. That tells me I need to look harder at what I may be missing. So once more I must look past what I think I know.

Please tell me you will bring your difficulties to God--in understanding Scripture, in your life, etc.

 

[Rainrider]

This is called a non sequitur. Sin existed before the Law, sin existed during the Law, and sin also exists under the New Covenant. And the reason humans sin is because of the indwelling sin nature ("the flesh") inherited from Adam (Rom 5:12). The Law had many aspects, not just showing us that the whole world is guilty before God, therefore the Law would drive us to Christ. But people seem to ignore the whole picture.

No argument from me. From the start the Law was to point us to Yahovah, and show us the full plan of salvation. In doing so, it is the mark by which all things are judged.

 

[Rainrider]

Please tell me you will bring your difficulties to God--in understanding Scripture, in your life, etc.

I pray for understanding, wisdom, and patients always.
as for if I think we are under the law, in the way Paul seems to use it, no I do not. I do however believe we will be judged by the laws Yahovah has given us. He is after unchanging. Mal.3:6 and Heb. 13:8 both comferm this. To remove the Law would mean He has to change.

 

[romans113336]

I pray for understanding, wisdom, and patients always.
as for if I think we are under the law, in the way Paul seems to use it, no I do not. I do however believe we will be judged by the laws Yahovah has given us. He is after unchanging. Mal.3:6 and Heb. 13:8 both comferm this. To remove the Law would mean He has to change.

No, that's not true:
a) Incest was a holy command (what else does it mean "be fruitful and multiply" other than "commit incest"?), before, but, today, as we all know, it's a work of the devil
b) Christ calls "taking of vows" "of the evil one", forbidding it, since it is vaunting oneself against God, as if one is anything in himself to make a vow--it is an offense to God's glory (Mt 5)
c) Christ denounces "any cause divorce" permitted in Torah as "adultery" today (Mt 19)

God gave many concessions under Torah--even the Temple was a concession--like "you can beat your slave to death as long as he doesn't die the same day"

 

[romans113336]

I pray for understanding, wisdom, and patients always.
as for if I think we are under the law, in the way Paul seems to use it, no I do not. I do however believe we will be judged by the laws Yahovah has given us. He is after unchanging. Mal.3:6 and Heb. 13:8 both comferm this. To remove the Law would mean He has to change.

Pray about the difficulties you have with reconciling Scripture with Scripture. Take Scripture seriously. When you find irreconcilable doctrines, take it to God. He will answer.

 

[posthuman]

No argument from me. From the start the Law was to point us to Yahovah, and show us the full plan of salvation. In doing so, it is the mark by which all things are judged.

anyone judged by the Law is condemmed. there is no more sacrifice for sin.

 

[posthuman]

If as you say the Law doesn't apply to us, Why is it that we can still sin? After all what is sin? Please see Rom. 5:13, 1John 3:4, and Rev.14:12

as it is written, whatever is not of faith is sin.

 

[posthuman]

If the law was removed, and held on perpuse in our lives, why wirte it in our hearts and mins?

Perhaps you should ask why He writes His law in our hearts if the covenant of Horeb is still preserved for us in letters?

What do you think 'written on our hearts' means?
we memorize Torah?

 

[tourist]

I believe a major part of it is represented in this saying:

"Most people don't really want the Truth. They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the Truth." (Author Unknown)

Some people can't handle the truth.

 

[turbosixx]

I came so close to posting something that I may have regretted later down the road. The following is a revised version of that post.
I came to this forum seeking answers. I found out so much about today's religion that explains a lot.
First I found that it seems we have a following of church doctrine over the True Word. As has been made clear in almost every thread I opened. As if your church doctrine holds more truth.
Second, it seems that being a true follower of the True Word, must be shunned at all cost.
The True Word is clear on this, and the words made me ask. Do I truly know? Or am I following what tickles the ear? 2Tim. 4:3-4
Not an exact quote mind you. However it does convey the same idea, and understanding.
As not many people on here has the spirit of worrier as the Word is clear we are called to be, or has the fortitude to even try, I feel for you all. You will be in my prayers in hopes that HaShem, or Yahovah will find a way to lead you to truth. His Truth.
Yeshua when he called out the Pharisees may well have been speaking to religious leaders of today. Again not an exact quote. What he said not an easy thing to swallow.
He called the sons of Satan, hypocrites, teaching man's doctrine as if it was HaShems own. Mat.15:7-9
What so many on here wish to do is push away any that see things in a different light. Wishing to persent themselves as knowing more than they really do. Yet when pressed on a topic, they say they know so well, can't or won't even try to make the other see how they are wrong. It's kind of like telling some one they were speeding, when they were doing 35 in a 40mile an hour zone. You say it, yet when asked your only reply is, Because I said so. Ok not in those words, yet by not engaging on a topic you brought forth, you may as well say it that way.
So now I ask you, if you wish to be the teacher you are in your own mind, why hide from it?
Rather than turn to name calling, belittlement, or be dismissive, why not engage? It gives you the chance to teach, and learn. Yet on here it as though the one that stands a lone prevails simply by asking how your teaching is in context with the Whole of the Word. As for myself, I welcome any challenge to my understanding. As it opens the door to seeing how I may be wrong. That in turns makes me a better teacher, and student.
What it doesn't do is show how right I am. You see once we take on the thinking of ME, MY CHURCH, and so on, we leave the True Word behind in favor of my thoughts, my church, and so on.
As true followers, we should have a hunger to learn, and a thirst for truth. Though for many the quest for understanding stops at the door of their church. They don't study the word, and many don't read it at all. Oh they have it with them, and may even open it when the pastor gives a passage. Then they just blindly follow what ever is told to them.
Once more, in closing, I came here to learn more than I think I know. I came to seek truth. Something that is not forthcoming in a place that one would think it should be. If one follows what the Word truly says, they are called names, belittled, and so on. Yet nothing of substance is ever offered up.
I have seen people say they know the Word, and have mesmerized most of the Bible, or N.T. That's all good, if you have a true understanding of it. Yet is made pointless if you know it, and don't follow it. So will someone please explain to me, why do say you hold more understanding, yet are so unwilling to debate most topics, when you see something wrong with a teaching or understanding?

Excellent post. A lot of truth.
I'm here to challenge what I believe and what others believe. You are correct. We gain nothing if we only surround ourselves with yes men. I have a hard time talking with most "Christians" because they do not know their bible. They only know what they've been told. It's scary but we need to challenge ourselves and honestly seek the truth. The LAST person you want to fool is yourself.

Hope to have some spirited discussions with you.

 

[posthuman]

I pray for understanding, wisdom, and patients always.
as for if I think we are under the law, in the way Paul seems to use it, no I do not. I do however believe we will be judged by the laws Yahovah has given us. He is after unchanging. Mal.3:6 and Heb. 13:8 both comferm this. To remove the Law would mean He has to change.

physical circumcision is clearly removed - Galatians is specific. but that commandment came 430 years before the Law transmitted through Moses, and was repeated in Moses. but this law was never for all mankind, only the Jew and those who would join themselves with the Jews.

Does that mean God changed, if He changed His command to men to be circumcised in the flesh?

And if we look at food, before Noah no meat was clean to eat. then God gave Noah all. meat as clean. then in the Sinai covenant, some. meat was declared unclean and other meat, clean. and then in Christ, all meat was declared clean.

Does God change because commandments concerning food changed?

before the Exodus God accepted offerings anywhere men made them. then He commanded they could only be made at the tabernacle. then, only the temple. then Christ came and now there is no more sacrifice, and worship is not on any particular mountain but in spirit.

Does this mean God changed? is this contradicting Malachi and Hebrews?

 

[studentoftheword]

however even after doing a word study, one may still miss understand how it all fits. As for the language used to write the N.T. the oldest available text is mostly in Hebrew.

So --lets Look at your scripture in the Hebrew ------


Matthew 5:17

King James Version

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.


Ancient Hebrew word for DESTROY -------SHACHATH

• Hebrew word: שָׁחַת shachath
• Meaning: Destroy; ruin; corrupt;

be rotted. to spoil,decay,be corrupt, marred, i.e., be ruined morally and so be in an impure state, as a figurative extension of an object being in a ruined or decayed condition bring to ruin------

Strong's Concordance in Hebrew for word ------ Destroy is Cthar

Strong's Concordance
cthar: destroy
figuratively, to demolish -
literally or figuratively -- be absent

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So now this word FULFILL ------Hebrew ----Mala

Ancient Hebrew ----
The Old Testament. The concept of fulfillment is expressed chiefly by the Hebrew words mala [ael'm], "fulfill, accomplish, terminate, " and kala [a'l'K], "be finished, completed."

Strong's Concordance --hebrew for fulfil -----

Strong's Concordance
male or mala: to be full, to fill
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance
accomplish, confirm, consecrate, be at an end, be expired, be fenced, fill, fulfill,


I say ------------So what do we see ---we see the same as the Greek -posted -------Jesus didn't come to Demolish the law or to make the law absent ----He came to Fulfil it --------To bring it to and end ----to expire it ---to fence it in terminate it ----so we who accept Jesus as Lord and Saviour are not yoked to the Law anymore ---and here is the thing ---the laws were given to the Jews only ---the Gentiles were away from God and not included in God's Command to keep the law ------The laws counted 613 and that included the 10 commandment and if you broke one law you broke them all ------and the Jews today still try and keep the Laws that they can't keep --------

As far as the New Testament --some being written in Hebrew ----I Don't agree with that ---at all


I found this

Was the New Testament written in Greek or Hebrew first?

Greek
The New Testament was originally written in Greek. This claim is not particularly controversial among biblical scholars, though some have argued that parts of the New Testament were originally written in Hebrew or Aramaic

And this is an interesting read ---you can read all here --I just posted this -------

https://www.logos.com/grow/min-was-...t was originally,written in Hebrew or Aramaic.

Manuscript evidence
Beyond this general linguistic background, the manuscript evidence is a crucial part of addressing the question of what language the New Testament was written in. Here, the evidence is unequivocal: the New Testament is a corpus of Greek compositions. The Institute for New Testament Textual Research has documented over five thousand Greek manuscripts containing parts (or all) of the New Testament, ranging from the second century AD into the early modern era. This Greek tradition ultimately was and is the source for all known translations of the New Testament into other languages, ancient and modern. This includes ancient translations into Latin, Coptic, Syriac, Ethiopic, Armenian, and Georgian. It also includes, of course, modern translations into countless languages around the world.

In sharp contrast, there are no ancient Hebrew manuscripts of the New Testament whatsoever. Some late-antique Jewish polemical works do include Hebrew translations of parts of the New Testament, but the earliest extant Hebrew version of a complete New Testament book is the fourteenth-century version of Matthew included in a polemical work by the Jewish scholar Shem Tov. This Hebrew version likely pre-dated Shem Tov, but it has many elements from Latin and medieval vernacular languages that prove that it is a late translation ultimately derived from the known Greek Matthew, rather than reflecting an original Hebrew version of the book.1 (The books of the New Testament have also been translated into Hebrew on multiple occasions in modern times, but these are irrelevant for the question of the original language of the New Testament.)


this is another good read ------

https://biblearchaeologyreport.com/2019/02/15/the-earliest-new-testament-manuscripts/

So How can one Learn ---my view

Ask the Holy Spirit for guidance when doing Research -and rely on the Holy Spirit to Give you the truth of what the scripture is saying to you Spiritually ------and ask for Spiritual discernment -----which is a gift of the Spirit --

 

[Pilgrimshope]

I mean, "It says here, 'have no other gods...', etc, and Torah defines good and evil, and Jesus followed the Law, and said He didn't come to do away with the Law, but to fulfill It, so why wouldn't I use the Torah as a guide to how I live in righteousness before God?"

maybe because of what Paul’s explaining about it here but those who trusted in Moses words couldn’t accept it

“Seeing then that we ( apostles ) have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament;

which vail is done away in Christ.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬


There’s no reason to try to know God through this veil anymore

“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The seed came lol now we don’t need a list of laws for people without the holy spirit webhave the New Testament true and clear not veiled word of God that if of faith why would we want to join this group after being redeemed ?

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-

if your guided by Moses judgements your going to reject Jesus words because they are contrary

moses says for instance “ if you get married and find later your wife isn’t pleasing you or you find some reason divorce her she can remarry so can you

jesus teaches no dont do that Moses taught you that because your hearts were hard but I tell you this other thing that’s opposite …..

He spent his ministry doing this often

Moses said this

“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth equal retaliation for an offense )

but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”( forgivness and mercy towards an offense without retaliation )
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The law was and is for this group of folks who have rejected the gospel and haven’t received the holy ghost

“knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to our trust.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You tell thieves who won’t stop “ thou shalt not steal of anyone steals the others among you must hold to account and ex creat justice “ this isnt Christianity even though it’s in the book of Moses law given to Israel many things Moses commands Jesus says would be wrong and teaches us not to do those things

Some examples are marriage and divorce , how to treat other sinners who offend you , what to eat whether or. Ot to swear an oath to God , how to treat enemies…..

not to mention all the sacrificial commands and details everything regarding the priesthood of the leviticle order and Aaron the sabbath days and new moon days and festivals the ceremonial busk washings ect ect Passover feast instructions all those things also became irrelevant because Jesus fulfilled those patterns in the gospel that’s all the Torah was a shadow and pattern of what Jesus would later accomplish and set forth

is the Torah “ wrong “ no not at all , it had a purpose that lead the world to the messiah and need for his atonement and teaching them the truth

We have Jesus now Moses foretold when he would come and speak gods eternal words in the law itself Moses serves Jesus and is his witness not the other way around

 

[romans113336]

maybe because of what Paul’s explaining about it here but those who trusted in Moses words couldn’t accept it

“Seeing then that we ( apostles ) have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: and not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: but their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament;

which vail is done away in Christ.

But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:12-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬


There’s no reason to try to know God through this veil anymore

“Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The seed came lol now we don’t need a list of laws for people without the holy spirit webhave the New Testament true and clear not veiled word of God that if of faith why would we want to join this group after being redeemed ?

“For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:10-

if your guided by Moses judgements your going to reject Jesus words because they are contrary

moses says for instance “ if you get married and find later your wife isn’t pleasing you or you find some reason divorce her she can remarry so can you

jesus teaches no dont do that Moses taught you that because your hearts were hard but I tell you this other thing that’s opposite …..

He spent his ministry doing this often

Moses said this

“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a toothequal retaliation for an offense )

but I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.”( forgivness and mercy towards an offense without retaliation )
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭5:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The law was and is for this group of folks who have rejected the gospel and haven’t received the holy ghost

“knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to our trust.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You tell thieves who won’t stop “ thou shalt not steal of anyone steals the others among you must hold to account and ex creat justice “ this isnt Christianity even though it’s in the book of Moses law given to Israel many things Moses commands Jesus says would be wrong and teaches us not to do those things

Some examples are marriage and divorce , how to treat other sinners who offend you , what to eat whether or. Ot to swear an oath to God , how to treat enemies…..

not to mention all the sacrificial commands and details everything regarding the priesthood of the leviticle order and Aaron the sabbath days and new moon days and festivals the ceremonial busk washings ect ect Passover feast instructions all those things also became irrelevant because Jesus fulfilled those patterns in the gospel that’s all the Torah was a shadow and pattern of what Jesus would later accomplish and set forth

is the Torah “ wrong “ no not at all , it had a purpose that lead the world to the messiah and need for his atonement and teaching them the truth

We have Jesus now Moses foretold when he would come and speak gods eternal words in the law itself Moses serves Jesus and is his witness not the other way around

I believe they call what you're doing "preaching to the choir".

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

So will someone please explain to me, why do say you hold more understanding, yet are so unwilling to debate most topics, when you see something wrong with a teaching or understanding?

they don't want to be challenged.
in reality, they, might actually be adopting bits and pieces from what is originally presented, they claim, to disagree with.
maybe, they're secretly hoping, you expand the meaning, to what you are seeing so they know for certain.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

they don't want to be challenged.
in reality, they, might actually be adopting bits and pieces from what is originally presented, they claim, to disagree with.
maybe, they're secretly hoping, you expand the meaning, to what you are seeing so they know for certain.

The question is who’s actually claiming to have this understanding to begin with ? And who’s just in a public discussion forum trying to state thier thoughts in a discussion ?

what I mean is sometimes in our own minds or perceptions we invent the part where someone’s claiming to have some superior understanding

which seems to be what the entire post is based on if anyone is claiming to have superior understanding it would make sense I suppose usually what happens is of two people disagree they begin a campaign lol to label the other flawed or heretical in some way here in this brotherly Bible forum 😂

a lot of times we perceive things in people like “ this person must really think they understand it all “ but they e never actually said anything like that we just don’t agree with what they might be saying . We should always make sure the persons actually saying things before we let it upset us or condemn them lol

 

[Blain]

Thank you.. This is a very rare experience for me online.. Hard to know how to react.. thank you..

the thing about being obline is that it natuarally shows what is the a persons heart there is undersland protection of being being a screen we tend to show who we trult what our hearts hide from nomral sociality I see the heart above all not docrtines believes or where we stand in him no matter our understand of each other our belivee our level of understanding the heart is always the deciding factor

So I tend to ignor to where one fits in or stands tje I have no concern with what denomination or doctrine a spirit is The eyes of god do not aee as we don he sees into the heart the inner soul the deeper intensions movivations reasons behind every desire every motive every reason for any action.

I am legally blind yet I was given sight to see what few do my sight is not of my accord ut I willing give up my eyes site so I could see through his
I battle and struggule severity because of this disiccenion but if I see an aspect of his spirit I make note to make sure it is known

I have seen and tatsed the kingdom of god the real thing thing not because I was special but because I wanted the the real thin the the truth who cares what interpretation or demonination or so called doctrine is when you go fot the living truth the one who claimed to be the truth the way and the life was that just words or the secret to God's heart?

We calim to have a realtionship with hij but if I told you that if you invited hijm to live and abide in you if you turned yourmindest to him being there 24/7 no matter how much you fail or sin your still living with him he appears physically he resdies and you reside in him no longer flesh vr.s spirit but one in unitsy if you allow him he will take you far beyoand what your mind can understanding but it will combine God and man spirit and flesh one marriage of the lamb not of tradttion but of the hearts wherre your affection and love for him goes far beyonf what you can say exctempt the word mine.

If anyone cannot speak of this they do no not see they do not know he is so much more than how we limit him via scripture he is alive real the scriptures are so downplayed that we forgten the connection we werre given with this God almighty.