How can one learn?

[Rainrider]

I came so close to posting something that I may have regretted later down the road. The following is a revised version of that post.
I came to this forum seeking answers. I found out so much about today's religion that explains a lot.
First I found that it seems we have a following of church doctrine over the True Word. As has been made clear in almost every thread I opened. As if your church doctrine holds more truth.
Second, it seems that being a true follower of the True Word, must be shunned at all cost.
The True Word is clear on this, and the words made me ask. Do I truly know? Or am I following what tickles the ear? 2Tim. 4:3-4
Not an exact quote mind you. However it does convey the same idea, and understanding.
As not many people on here has the spirit of worrier as the Word is clear we are called to be, or has the fortitude to even try, I feel for you all. You will be in my prayers in hopes that HaShem, or Yahovah will find a way to lead you to truth. His Truth.
Yeshua when he called out the Pharisees may well have been speaking to religious leaders of today. Again not an exact quote. What he said not an easy thing to swallow.
He called the sons of Satan, hypocrites, teaching man's doctrine as if it was HaShems own. Mat.15:7-9
What so many on here wish to do is push away any that see things in a different light. Wishing to persent themselves as knowing more than they really do. Yet when pressed on a topic, they say they know so well, can't or won't even try to make the other see how they are wrong. It's kind of like telling some one they were speeding, when they were doing 35 in a 40mile an hour zone. You say it, yet when asked your only reply is, Because I said so. Ok not in those words, yet by not engaging on a topic you brought forth, you may as well say it that way.
So now I ask you, if you wish to be the teacher you are in your own mind, why hide from it?
Rather than turn to name calling, belittlement, or be dismissive, why not engage? It gives you the chance to teach, and learn. Yet on here it as though the one that stands a lone prevails simply by asking how your teaching is in context with the Whole of the Word. As for myself, I welcome any challenge to my understanding. As it opens the door to seeing how I may be wrong. That in turns makes me a better teacher, and student.
What it doesn't do is show how right I am. You see once we take on the thinking of ME, MY CHURCH, and so on, we leave the True Word behind in favor of my thoughts, my church, and so on.
As true followers, we should have a hunger to learn, and a thirst for truth. Though for many the quest for understanding stops at the door of their church. They don't study the word, and many don't read it at all. Oh they have it with them, and may even open it when the pastor gives a passage. Then they just blindly follow what ever is told to them.
Once more, in closing, I came here to learn more than I think I know. I came to seek truth. Something that is not forthcoming in a place that one would think it should be. If one follows what the Word truly says, they are called names, belittled, and so on. Yet nothing of substance is ever offered up.
I have seen people say they know the Word, and have mesmerized most of the Bible, or N.T. That's all good, if you have a true understanding of it. Yet is made pointless if you know it, and don't follow it. So will someone please explain to me, why do say you hold more understanding, yet are so unwilling to debate most topics, when you see something wrong with a teaching or understanding?

 

[GaryA]

I believe a major part of it is represented in this saying:

"Most people don't really want the Truth. They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the Truth." (Author Unknown)

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Meh, this is a public forum full of Christians from diverse walks of life who like to debate their ideas.
If you need a teacher find a pastor.
I like testing my understanding via debate with other Christians who see things a bit different.

 

[romans113336]

I came so close to posting something that I may have regretted later down the road. The following is a revised version of that post.
I came to this forum seeking answers. I found out so much about today's religion that explains a lot.
First I found that it seems we have a following of church doctrine over the True Word. As has been made clear in almost every thread I opened. As if your church doctrine holds more truth.
Second, it seems that being a true follower of the True Word, must be shunned at all cost.
The True Word is clear on this, and the words made me ask. Do I truly know? Or am I following what tickles the ear? 2Tim. 4:3-4
Not an exact quote mind you. However it does convey the same idea, and understanding.
As not many people on here has the spirit of worrier as the Word is clear we are called to be, or has the fortitude to even try, I feel for you all. You will be in my prayers in hopes that HaShem, or Yahovah will find a way to lead you to truth. His Truth.
Yeshua when he called out the Pharisees may well have been speaking to religious leaders of today. Again not an exact quote. What he said not an easy thing to swallow.
He called the sons of Satan, hypocrites, teaching man's doctrine as if it was HaShems own. Mat.15:7-9
What so many on here wish to do is push away any that see things in a different light. Wishing to persent themselves as knowing more than they really do. Yet when pressed on a topic, they say they know so well, can't or won't even try to make the other see how they are wrong. It's kind of like telling some one they were speeding, when they were doing 35 in a 40mile an hour zone. You say it, yet when asked your only reply is, Because I said so. Ok not in those words, yet by not engaging on a topic you brought forth, you may as well say it that way.
So now I ask you, if you wish to be the teacher you are in your own mind, why hide from it?
Rather than turn to name calling, belittlement, or be dismissive, why not engage? It gives you the chance to teach, and learn. Yet on here it as though the one that stands a lone prevails simply by asking how your teaching is in context with the Whole of the Word. As for myself, I welcome any challenge to my understanding. As it opens the door to seeing how I may be wrong. That in turns makes me a better teacher, and student.
What it doesn't do is show how right I am. You see once we take on the thinking of ME, MY CHURCH, and so on, we leave the True Word behind in favor of my thoughts, my church, and so on.
As true followers, we should have a hunger to learn, and a thirst for truth. Though for many the quest for understanding stops at the door of their church. They don't study the word, and many don't read it at all. Oh they have it with them, and may even open it when the pastor gives a passage. Then they just blindly follow what ever is told to them.
Once more, in closing, I came here to learn more than I think I know. I came to seek truth. Something that is not forthcoming in a place that one would think it should be. If one follows what the Word truly says, they are called names, belittled, and so on. Yet nothing of substance is ever offered up.
I have seen people say they know the Word, and have mesmerized most of the Bible, or N.T. That's all good, if you have a true understanding of it. Yet is made pointless if you know it, and don't follow it. So will someone please explain to me, why do say you hold more understanding, yet are so unwilling to debate most topics, when you see something wrong with a teaching or understanding?

You criticized following men's traditions, and used the term "hashem" in the same sentence 🤣

We're not under Law (Ro 6:14), and Apostle Paul discouraged observing of these days (Gal 4:10). Yes, he became as a Jew, as those under Law, for their salvation, not his own (1 Co 9). Torah contains many concessions (eg, "any cause divorce" Mt 19)--some Jesus even denounces as "of the evil one" if practiced now ("vows" in Mt 5). Gentile believers who walk after the Spirit are already qualified as "doers of the Law" (Ro 2:6-16, 26, 27), so they don't need anyone's "help" to be "more righteous" by the Law--in fact, that is a false Gospel (Gal 1:6, 3:1-3) that leads people away from Christ (Gal 5:4). Just sharing for others' sake.

 

[NightTwister]

I came so close to posting something that I may have regretted later down the road. The following is a revised version of that post.
I came to this forum seeking answers. I found out so much about today's religion that explains a lot.
First I found that it seems we have a following of church doctrine over the True Word. As has been made clear in almost every thread I opened. As if your church doctrine holds more truth.
Second, it seems that being a true follower of the True Word, must be shunned at all cost.
The True Word is clear on this, and the words made me ask. Do I truly know? Or am I following what tickles the ear? 2Tim. 4:3-4
Not an exact quote mind you. However it does convey the same idea, and understanding.
As not many people on here has the spirit of worrier as the Word is clear we are called to be, or has the fortitude to even try, I feel for you all. You will be in my prayers in hopes that HaShem, or Yahovah will find a way to lead you to truth. His Truth.
Yeshua when he called out the Pharisees may well have been speaking to religious leaders of today. Again not an exact quote. What he said not an easy thing to swallow.
He called the sons of Satan, hypocrites, teaching man's doctrine as if it was HaShems own. Mat.15:7-9
What so many on here wish to do is push away any that see things in a different light. Wishing to persent themselves as knowing more than they really do. Yet when pressed on a topic, they say they know so well, can't or won't even try to make the other see how they are wrong. It's kind of like telling some one they were speeding, when they were doing 35 in a 40mile an hour zone. You say it, yet when asked your only reply is, Because I said so. Ok not in those words, yet by not engaging on a topic you brought forth, you may as well say it that way.
So now I ask you, if you wish to be the teacher you are in your own mind, why hide from it?
Rather than turn to name calling, belittlement, or be dismissive, why not engage? It gives you the chance to teach, and learn. Yet on here it as though the one that stands a lone prevails simply by asking how your teaching is in context with the Whole of the Word. As for myself, I welcome any challenge to my understanding. As it opens the door to seeing how I may be wrong. That in turns makes me a better teacher, and student.
What it doesn't do is show how right I am. You see once we take on the thinking of ME, MY CHURCH, and so on, we leave the True Word behind in favor of my thoughts, my church, and so on.
As true followers, we should have a hunger to learn, and a thirst for truth. Though for many the quest for understanding stops at the door of their church. They don't study the word, and many don't read it at all. Oh they have it with them, and may even open it when the pastor gives a passage. Then they just blindly follow what ever is told to them.
Once more, in closing, I came here to learn more than I think I know. I came to seek truth. Something that is not forthcoming in a place that one would think it should be. If one follows what the Word truly says, they are called names, belittled, and so on. Yet nothing of substance is ever offered up.
I have seen people say they know the Word, and have mesmerized most of the Bible, or N.T. That's all good, if you have a true understanding of it. Yet is made pointless if you know it, and don't follow it. So will someone please explain to me, why do say you hold more understanding, yet are so unwilling to debate most topics, when you see something wrong with a teaching or understanding?

Your "True Word" is simply the doctrine of your own making. It's no different than the doctrines of others that have been developed over years, decades, centuries and/or millennia. Doctrines are simply a summation/explanation of what The True Word says according to them.

 

[Nehemiah6]

First I found that it seems we have a following of church doctrine over the True Word

There are many who do strive to present Bible truth over church doctrines or traditions. There are also a few who try to promote false teachings endlessly. And then there are the trolls.

So what you do is hold on to the "wheat" and discard the "chaff". Therefore kindly give us an example of which man -made doctrine is being promoted by the majority of posters.

A reminder to all -- God will hold us accountable for every word we have written. So we need to be very cautious to avoid misrepresenting what God has said. And ignorance is no excuse.

 

[romans113336]

There are many who do strive to present Bible truth over church doctrines or traditions. There are also a few who try to promote false teachings endlessly. And then there are the trolls.

So what you do is hold on to the "wheat" and discard the "chaff". Therefore kindly give us an example of which man -made doctrine is being promoted by the majority of posters.

A reminder to all -- God will hold us accountable for every word we have written. So we need to be very cautious to avoid misrepresenting what God has said. And ignorance is no excuse.

It's a safe bet, based on his usage of "Hashem", etc, that he believes Christians are to serve by Torah--for that reason, I addressed it.

 

[Dino246]

It's a safe bet, based on his usage of "Hashem", etc, that he believes Christians are to serve by Torah--for that reason, I addressed it.

That's another unwarranted assumption. Use of the term "HaShem" could suggest that he uses a translation that preserves the Hebrew terms for God (over generic English terms), or perhaps that he respects those who prefer not to use the divine Name (lest they misuse it).

 

[Nehemiah6]

It's a safe bet, based on his usage of "Hashem", etc, that he believes Christians are to serve by Torah--for that reason, I addressed it.

Yes you did, and guess what? "Hashem" (the Name) is used only by superstitious unbelieving Jews. "Adonai" (the Lord) was used by reverent Jews instead of Yahweh -- YHWH (in order to conform -- supposedly -- to the Ten Commandments). Therefore the KJV uses "the LORD" for YHWH. Today many superstitiously use G-d instead of simply writing God. But the devout Jew Stephen said "Lord Jesus" and Christians are free to say "Lord Jesus Christ". Each of those words has great significance.

 

[romans113336]

That's another unwarranted assumption. Use of the term "HaShem" could suggest that he uses a translation that preserves the Hebrew terms for God (over generic English terms), or perhaps that he respects those who prefer not to use the divine Name (lest they misuse it).

Right, "Oh, that's the guy I disagree with! I'll disagree with him, here, too! That'll show him! I can't assail his arguments, elsewhere, but I'll nail him here!"

You have said nothing reasonable.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Use of the term "HaShem" could suggest that he uses a translation that preserves the Hebrew terms for God

But that is not the case as we see in the Bible.

 

[Dino246]

But that is not the case as we see in the Bible.

I'm not sure what you mean. There are translations that don't use "god" or "lord" but instead use "YHVH", "Adonai" and other original-language terms.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I'm not sure what you mean. There are translations that don't use "god" or "lord" but instead use "YHVH", "Adonai" and other original-language terms.

I was referring to Hebrew and Jewish usage as shown within the Bible itself. Not once will you see "Hashem" for "God". That is a rather recent innovation. And those translations you mentioned are also recent.

 

[Dino246]

I was referring to Hebrew and Jewish usage as shown within the Bible itself. Not once will you see "Hashem" for "God". That is a rather recent innovation. And those translations you mentioned are also recent.

Irrelevant to the context, but thanks for explaining.

 

[Blain]

I came so close to posting something that I may have regretted later down the road. The following is a revised version of that post.
I came to this forum seeking answers. I found out so much about today's religion that explains a lot.
First I found that it seems we have a following of church doctrine over the True Word. As has been made clear in almost every thread I opened. As if your church doctrine holds more truth.
Second, it seems that being a true follower of the True Word, must be shunned at all cost.
The True Word is clear on this, and the words made me ask. Do I truly know? Or am I following what tickles the ear? 2Tim. 4:3-4
Not an exact quote mind you. However it does convey the same idea, and understanding.
As not many people on here has the spirit of worrier as the Word is clear we are called to be, or has the fortitude to even try, I feel for you all. You will be in my prayers in hopes that HaShem, or Yahovah will find a way to lead you to truth. His Truth.
Yeshua when he called out the Pharisees may well have been speaking to religious leaders of today. Again not an exact quote. What he said not an easy thing to swallow.
He called the sons of Satan, hypocrites, teaching man's doctrine as if it was HaShems own. Mat.15:7-9
What so many on here wish to do is push away any that see things in a different light. Wishing to persent themselves as knowing more than they really do. Yet when pressed on a topic, they say they know so well, can't or won't even try to make the other see how they are wrong. It's kind of like telling some one they were speeding, when they were doing 35 in a 40mile an hour zone. You say it, yet when asked your only reply is, Because I said so. Ok not in those words, yet by not engaging on a topic you brought forth, you may as well say it that way.
So now I ask you, if you wish to be the teacher you are in your own mind, why hide from it?
Rather than turn to name calling, belittlement, or be dismissive, why not engage? It gives you the chance to teach, and learn. Yet on here it as though the one that stands a lone prevails simply by asking how your teaching is in context with the Whole of the Word. As for myself, I welcome any challenge to my understanding. As it opens the door to seeing how I may be wrong. That in turns makes me a better teacher, and student.
What it doesn't do is show how right I am. You see once we take on the thinking of ME, MY CHURCH, and so on, we leave the True Word behind in favor of my thoughts, my church, and so on.
As true followers, we should have a hunger to learn, and a thirst for truth. Though for many the quest for understanding stops at the door of their church. They don't study the word, and many don't read it at all. Oh they have it with them, and may even open it when the pastor gives a passage. Then they just blindly follow what ever is told to them.
Once more, in closing, I came here to learn more than I think I know. I came to seek truth. Something that is not forthcoming in a place that one would think it should be. If one follows what the Word truly says, they are called names, belittled, and so on. Yet nothing of substance is ever offered up.
I have seen people say they know the Word, and have mesmerized most of the Bible, or N.T. That's all good, if you have a true understanding of it. Yet is made pointless if you know it, and don't follow it. So will someone please explain to me, why do say you hold more understanding, yet are so unwilling to debate most topics, when you see something wrong with a teaching or understanding?

The flaws in the church the docrtine the normality of being a believer have been made known to you. Is it confusing that everything we read and study end up false? is it odd that what we stand fir is nit soiritual but of inttelect and so called solid doctrine?

Yet look at nthe division the confusion the arguments using sctipture as if it just ink and words? the system we all abide by that only causes arguments confusion dividing and cherry picking the word of God that weclaim to be so sacred yet look at how we trat it.

The norm and the sytsem is the fruits of the enemy if you see this in any way it is not the truth.

go to the source Jesus Christ himself not as a distant Lord but kneel before him as if you are in the throne of God himself he will show you and take you into the truth and beyond the deeper things of the kingdom he is a real person and wuill if you ask it abide and live with you never being without his presence more real than anything in this world he is the answer the truth the way the life literslly not metaphoritaccaly not not spiritually but physically he will live withm you show up physically speak out loud

You can study the bible all you want but you will never understand it if if you are not following and being with the original source, many claim to know him but can they say he lives with them that he appears and speaks to them?

Go for more go deeper seek the kind of relationship with him where this all happens only then will the truth be revealed the answers yoou seek cannot be found from studying the word of God you have to go to him personally

 

[Adstar]

I came so close to posting something that I may have regretted later down the road. The following is a revised version of that post.
I came to this forum seeking answers. I found out so much about today's religion that explains a lot.
First I found that it seems we have a following of church doctrine over the True Word. As has been made clear in almost every thread I opened. As if your church doctrine holds more truth.
Second, it seems that being a true follower of the True Word, must be shunned at all cost.
The True Word is clear on this, and the words made me ask. Do I truly know? Or am I following what tickles the ear? 2Tim. 4:3-4
Not an exact quote mind you. However it does convey the same idea, and understanding.
As not many people on here has the spirit of worrier as the Word is clear we are called to be, or has the fortitude to even try, I feel for you all. You will be in my prayers in hopes that HaShem, or Yahovah will find a way to lead you to truth. His Truth.
Yeshua when he called out the Pharisees may well have been speaking to religious leaders of today. Again not an exact quote. What he said not an easy thing to swallow.
He called the sons of Satan, hypocrites, teaching man's doctrine as if it was HaShems own. Mat.15:7-9
What so many on here wish to do is push away any that see things in a different light. Wishing to persent themselves as knowing more than they really do. Yet when pressed on a topic, they say they know so well, can't or won't even try to make the other see how they are wrong. It's kind of like telling some one they were speeding, when they were doing 35 in a 40mile an hour zone. You say it, yet when asked your only reply is, Because I said so. Ok not in those words, yet by not engaging on a topic you brought forth, you may as well say it that way.
So now I ask you, if you wish to be the teacher you are in your own mind, why hide from it?
Rather than turn to name calling, belittlement, or be dismissive, why not engage? It gives you the chance to teach, and learn. Yet on here it as though the one that stands a lone prevails simply by asking how your teaching is in context with the Whole of the Word. As for myself, I welcome any challenge to my understanding. As it opens the door to seeing how I may be wrong. That in turns makes me a better teacher, and student.
What it doesn't do is show how right I am. You see once we take on the thinking of ME, MY CHURCH, and so on, we leave the True Word behind in favor of my thoughts, my church, and so on.
As true followers, we should have a hunger to learn, and a thirst for truth. Though for many the quest for understanding stops at the door of their church. They don't study the word, and many don't read it at all. Oh they have it with them, and may even open it when the pastor gives a passage. Then they just blindly follow what ever is told to them.
Once more, in closing, I came here to learn more than I think I know. I came to seek truth. Something that is not forthcoming in a place that one would think it should be. If one follows what the Word truly says, they are called names, belittled, and so on. Yet nothing of substance is ever offered up.
I have seen people say they know the Word, and have mesmerized most of the Bible, or N.T. That's all good, if you have a true understanding of it. Yet is made pointless if you know it, and don't follow it. So will someone please explain to me, why do say you hold more understanding, yet are so unwilling to debate most topics, when you see something wrong with a teaching or understanding?

I will often walk an extra mile with someone when i think they are open to correction.. But when they are more focused on preaching and ""correcting"" others and when they ignore or run from Biblical quotes, and will not respond.. Well then i move on.. They can have the last post and feel that they have ""Won"" the ""debate"" and they can proceed down their path of deception and God can deal with them on the Day of judgement.. I am focused on seeking actual genuine seekers who are open and will engage with all the points put forward.. I cannot waste my time with dogmatic cultists locked into being preaching evangelists out there to fix everyone else and ignore valid scriptural objections to their View of God and His will..

Pride really is the worst attribute a human being can have.. Pride blinds people, Pride turns people into obnoxious bullies.. When you run into one you will soon know it and engaging them is like banging your head against a brick wall.. Pointless and painful..

 

[Blain]

I will often walk an extra mile with someone when i think they are open to correction.. But when they are more focused on preaching and ""correcting"" others and when they ignore or run from Biblical quotes, and will not respond.. Well then i move on.. They can have the last post and feel that they have ""Won"" the ""debate"" and they can proceed down their path of deception and God can deal with them on the Day of judgement.. I am focused on seeking actual genuine seekers who are open and will engage with all the points put forward.. I cannot waste my time with dogmatic cultists locked into being preaching evangelists out there to fix everyone else and ignore valid scriptural objections to their View of God and His will..

Pride really is the worst attribute a human being can have.. Pride blinds people, Pride turns people into obnoxious bullies.. When you run into one you will soon know it and engaging them is like banging your head against a brick wall.. Pointless and painful..

I don't say this often but you have the presence of a ture teacher the guidence needed
Anyone who would listen to you would be considered wise

 

[Adstar]

I don't say this often but you have the presence of a ture teacher the guidence needed
Anyone who would listen to you would be considered wise

Thank you.. This is a very rare experience for me online.. Hard to know how to react.. thank you..

 

[ResidentAlien]

The flaws in the church the docrtine the normality of being a believer have been made known to you. Is it confusing that everything we read and study end up false? is it odd that what we stand fir is nit soiritual but of inttelect and so called solid doctrine?

Yet look at nthe division the confusion the arguments using sctipture as if it just ink and words? the system we all abide by that only causes arguments confusion dividing and cherry picking the word of God that weclaim to be so sacred yet look at how we trat it.

The norm and the sytsem is the fruits of the enemy if you see this in any way it is not the truth.

go to the source Jesus Christ himself not as a distant Lord but kneel before him as if you are in the throne of God himself he will show you and take you into the truth and beyond the deeper things of the kingdom he is a real person and wuill if you ask it abide and live with you never being without his presence more real than anything in this world he is the answer the truth the way the life literslly not metaphoritaccaly not not spiritually but physically he will live withm you show up physically speak out loud

You can study the bible all you want but you will never understand it if if you are not following and being with the original source, many claim to know him but can they say he lives with them that he appears and speaks to them?

Go for more go deeper seek the kind of relationship with him where this all happens only then will the truth be revealed the answers yoou seek cannot be found from studying the word of God you have to go to him personally

I know you'll find this difficult to believe but your contribution to false doctrine is as great as anyone else's.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Irrelevant to the context, but thanks for explaining.

More than relevant unless you simply want the last word.