Works Complete Faith?

[romans113336]

Thats the ongoing premise you have attempted to champion thru this entire thread. And then when you are proven wrong, a blithe excusatory response is proffered.

As far as I can tell, you are selling some kind of hyper-Arminian heresy as far as I can tell.
Salvation waxes and wanes, and is wholly dependent upon OUR faith and works! Sin leading to condemnation banana peels everywhere, one slip up and you are flung headlong into the lake of fire.

Outrageous.

You have (intentionally?) misunderstood.

 

[romans113336]

We all need to be humble (like the tax collector) and not fall into the trap of trusting in self and looking down on others (like the Pharisee).

Luke 18:9 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10 “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’

That's a lot of "I" from the Pharisee.

13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’ 14 I tell you; this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Yeah, even Paul had to be "saved" from the potential of boasting--by the Lord sending the messenger of satan to buffet his body.

 

[romans113336]

And to honest brother, then the fruit inspectors come in and claim...

1. We have been saved by faith alone in the finished work of the cross.
2. Believers must do good works to justify that they are saved, or they're not true believers.

But, no one will come and and answer, what good works, how much good works, and for how long does one continue to do good works? What in the world is the JSOC for, if all believers go onto good works?

What's the purpose of discipleship? Bible study? Gathering together? Solid bible preaching? What if these things are absent in the believer's life?

Getting car worked on. Try to make it brief.

It's not about an "amount" of works. If you think of faith as a race, if the runner is running well, but is, somewhere along the way, hindered, that's more of the picture: Each step gets him closer to where he needs to be in the future, but each step he's where he needs to be for now.

It's no different than regular life. You're (ideally) in a family, so you have a base of love, and, in the course of time, you may do well, but you may not, and your family will have opinions about you either way.

 

[cv5]

It's not about an "amount" of works. If you think of faith as a race, if the runner is running well, but is, somewhere along the way, hindered, that's more of the picture: Each step gets him closer to where he needs to be in the future, but each step he's where he needs to be for now.
.

A "race" against your own sinful self? And we are invest maximum supreme sweat equity to "get closer to where we need to be"?
Thats it? Thats your formula for salvation?

Well, I say that it is a race that NO son of Adam could EVER win.
And Jesus secured the victory for us anyways. There is no race to obtain salvation for us. Ever.
It is a gift bequeathed by the Victor Himself, who can never lose, never fail, and never forsake us.

FYI, the Apostle Paul NEVER, NOT ONCE questioned his salvation. Never.
He was however concerned about being disqualified from the race......for good and faithful servant crowns.

 

[romans113336]

How long is it (according to your view) between the time that he commits this "sin" (in Rom14:23) and the time that God "condemns" him for it (in Rom14:23, per your view) and he consequently "forfeits" salvation (as you've said)?




Because, you've stated the following things in this thread:

--"It would be unrighteous for God to not condemn sin [...]" (my question to you is, how long between the "sin" committed, and the time that God righteously "condemns" him for the "[if] HE EATS" thing, according to you? A week? 6 weeks? 6 months? Other?);

--"Infractions of this rule are 'sin' which results in 'condemnation'" (but my question to you is, "when" in relation to the committed "sin" does God "condemn" this person, thus meaning they've "forfeited" salvation according to your view?)







I know there are many passages and verses that people *think* are saying a person/member of the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY can "forfeit" their salvation (or can "lose" it), but they don't. Several have been covered in this thread... and I'm certain you believe that we are unaware of the [supposed] TONS OF VERSES MORE that you still haven't yet presented which convince you that we have no idea what we're talking about, and make you think "if you only KNEW of all of them, like I do!" [like you keep saying].

(Not. )

"Condemnation" in Ro 14:23 (bc of breaking the rule "let every man be fully convinced in his own mind") doesn't mean "definitely going to hell", it means God disapproves. We abide in Him if we keep His commands, and we know we're abiding in Him when He gives us His Spirit, so Paul warns, "He who disregards the prohibition against immorality isn't disregarding mere men, but the Lord Who gives a His Spirit."

We can also, after being "condemned", acknowledge our error/sin, repent, and move on.
There are different ways people respond to being "condemned" by the Lord.
He punishes us now so as to save us--so we won't be condemned along with the world at the end.

 

[romans113336]

A "race" against your own sinful self? And we are invest maximum supreme sweat equity to "get closer to where we need to be"?
Thats it? Thats your formula for salvation?

Well, I say that it is a race that NO son of Adam could EVER win.
And Jesus secured the victory for us anyways. There is no race to obtain salvation for us. Ever.
It is a gift bequeathed by the Victor Himself, who can never lose, never fail, and never forsake us.

FYI, the Apostle Paul NEVER, NOT ONCE questioned his salvation. Never.
He was however concerned about being disqualified from the race......for good and faithful servant crowns.

He often referred to faith as a race, and compared the reality that he could be disqualified by sin, despite having been saved, to the time the Jews were saved, yet sinned, and fell under God's wrath, and forfeited the Promise (1 Co 9:26, 1 Co 10).

See, I don't want "extra parts" laying around.

 

[romans113336]

I know there are many passages and verses that people *think* are saying a person/member of the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY can "forfeit" their salvation (or can "lose" it), but they don't. Several have been covered in this thread... and I'm certain you believe that we are unaware of the [supposed] TONS OF VERSES MORE that you still haven't yet presented which convince you that we have no idea what we're talking about, and make you think "if you only KNEW of all of them, like I do!" [like you keep saying].

(Not. )

Salvation isn't tenuous, but, yeah, it requires abiding in Christ by keeping the twofold command and being given His Spirit as a result--just as it speaks of being repaid eternal life at the final judgment (Ro 2:6-16). Only those who abide in Him are given His Spirit--and only those who believe in the Name of the Son of God and love one another abide in Him.

 

[cv5]

He often referred to faith as a race, and compared the reality that he could be disqualified by sin, despite having been saved, to the time the Jews were saved, yet sinned, and fell under God's wrath, and forfeited the Promise (1 Co 9:26, 1 Co 10).

See, I don't want "extra parts" laying around.

Listen friend and let this sink in:

We do NOT show our works/effort to God as a means to salvation.
WE SHOW THE BLOOD OF JESUS TO GOD!

Thats it and that all.

Covered with the blood Genesis 3:21. Blood on the doorposts and lintel. Blood of every animal sacrifice since Adam.

Wake up.

 

[romans113336]

Listen friend and let this sink in:

We do NOT show our works/effort to God as a means to salvation.
WE SHOW THE BLOOD OF JESUS TO GOD!

Thats it and that all.

Covered with the blood Genesis 3:21. Blood on the doorposts and lintel. Blood of every animal sacrifice since Adam.

Wake up.

Listen, I believe Scripture.
Simple.

 

[John146]

I love stories of grace. What was different the second time?

I surrounded myself with bible believers that challenged me in the word. I read. I study. I listen. I memorize. I can't get enough of God's word.

 

[NightTwister]

Listen, I believe Scripture.
Simple.

Circular reasoning fallacy.

 

[cv5]

Listen, I believe Scripture.
Simple.

I take your abject denial of this Biblically fundamental and correct assertion as a confirmation that you are a works-salvationist.
Yes, yes you are. Very clearly.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Works Complete Faith?


The Moment God, stepped inside and Entered into Your heart, He, "Continued" the [Works] that He began in You and will keep Working in You, until He Resurrects You.


All we are doing, by doing anything, outside of getting the Sense I should do this, I should tell this person something about God that uplifts, I should feed the person, maybe I need to give this one here some money and say, God, Loves You...is...allowing God, inside of us, to do His Works, by giving us the feeling we should give, or help, or say something that reflects God.

We really are not doing any work at all.

Just like Jesus, the Father dwelled in Him, doing the works, even though, it was Jesus Who looked like He was doing the Works [He is the Exact Image of God...what God does...Jesus was doing because He is God]...

but in us, God dwelling in us, is we get a feeling, idea to help, do something. because GOD, wants to WORK, but He, wants You to be the VESSEL He works through!

i've never done a thing for Jesus!

Jesus, inside of me, gave the ideas to do what HE wanted to do. and it got done because I allowed it and obeyed. it looked like me doing it. but it was Jesus doing what He wanted to do Himself.


the Faith part: when i get the idea from Jesus to give money, i know the idea is from Jesus. so i give because my Faith says this is of God and i will obey and SEE the Miracle in the end.

Paul planted many Churches, but never saw them grow like John did.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

in Heaven, Paul, saw his Churches flourish and produce for God!

but, it was Jesus, who told Paul to plant the Churches and Paul, through Faith, did.

so, Jesus, planted the Churches, by using Paul.

the WORKS, is always God doing it...even though, it looks like i am doing it to others.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

as long as God has a WORK for You, You will be giving to others until you die.

it looks like you are the one doing it.

but it is GOD doing what He wants to do and you have the faith to let Him!

be doers...be a willing vessel...that is Faith, someone, God can use!

 

[romans113336]

Circular reasoning fallacy.

Lol
He and I have a history. He's said everything he has been able to say, has proven nothing, and now is just shooting his little bb gun. I don't mind. He's saying exactly zilch, so why am I expected to do more? He said he put me on ignore.

 

[romans113336]

I take your abject denial of this Biblically fundamental and correct assertion as a confirmation that you are a works-salvationist.
Yes, yes you are. Very clearly.

You don't know Scripture. You've proven that in our many conversations. Your opinion on the matter is not my concern.

 

[cv5]

Your opinion on the matter is not my concern.

My concern is YOUR opinion. Not mine. Works-salvation is a dead end.
Think of the Jor Dan river, the river of sin and death, that starts at Adam and ends at the dead sea, out of which nothing escapes.
Those who do not pass over it end up there.

Jos 3:16
That the waters which came down from above stood and rose up upon an heap very far from the city Adam, that is beside Zaretan: and those that came down toward the sea of the plain, even the salt sea, failed, and were cut off: and the people passed over right against Jericho.

 

[Cameron143]

I surrounded myself with bible believers that challenged me in the word. I read. I study. I listen. I memorize. I can't get enough of God's word.

Have you ever considered that you weren't really saved the first time? That what it speaks of in Hebrews 4...hearing that was not mixed with faith...could have been the case with you?

 

[romans113336]

My concern is YOUR opinion. Not mine. Works-salvation is a dead end.
Think of the Jor Dan river, the river of sin and death, that starts at Adam and ends at the dead sea, out of which nothing escapes.
Those who do not pass over it end up there.

Jos 3:16
That the waters which came down from above stood and rose up upon an heap very far from the city Adam, that is beside Zaretan: and those that came down toward the sea of the plain, even the salt sea, failed, and were cut off: and the people passed over right against Jericho.

I've laid out my views, you've expressed your disagreement/disapproval. Your reasoning is unconvincing, so I remain at my positions.
Not interested in hearing all your emotions.