Subtle deception

Lanolin · Oct 2, 2023

Not sure if its actually gaining any popularity or it was always there from the gnostics going back centuries...I dont look at 'popular' doctrines.

I'm really not into doctrines or theology anyway. Theologians can nut out that one and argue about it till the cows come home I just get on with my walk.

Pilgrimshope · Oct 2, 2023

wattie said:

amen God is one and his name was revealed on earth in the gospel of our Lord and our God Jesus Christ

“And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness. And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

ResidentAlien · Oct 2, 2023

wattie said:

I'm curious what makes you say it's gaining popularity. Do you mean here in the forums, or in the larger Christian world? I guess I'd like to know exactly what you mean by "gaining popularity." Have you done polls? Are you a statistician? Can you give examples of trends in this direction that suggest it's growing in popularity? Or is it more of a subjective impression?

wattie · Oct 2, 2023

ResidentAlien said:

Oh it's just an impression. But I have heard from other people in other forums that Unitarianism is getting more popular and here at this site I have seen a number of messianic Jews who call Jesus the Messiah but put the Father above Him as a superior being

montana123 · Oct 2, 2023

wattie said:

Jesus is God, and He is only lesser than the Father according to his humanity.

When Jesus said the Father is greater than me He was speaking about His humanity.

Isa 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isa 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

1Ti 6:14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1Ti 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1Ti 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

Jesus is God for He is God manifest in the flesh, and there was no God formed before, or after God, so Jesus is God.

Jesus is larger than the human manifestation of Himself, and no person will ever see Jesus for He is an invisible Spirit but He showed a visible image of Himself to Israel.

The Woke movement is the minor influences in society exalting themselves, wanting attention, and saying the major influences are toxic, and bad, and oppressive.

The Woke movement will pave the way to the new age movement for they are the type of people who will accept it.

They will try to unite the people together with Jesus' love, and forgiveness, but it will be a different perspective of Jesus that reduces his status to be one of the fellas that identifies with everyone.

Which the hegetsus movement does that is they present Jesus as identifying with everyone, an average Joe, and some people believe He was born a woman, and transgendered to be a man.

They will give the perspective of Jesus as of the occult, a good teacher in spiritual enlightenment, evolved to be an ascended master, and the New Age Christ is above Jesus.

Which the hegetsus movement ran 2 ads in the last Superbowl which it would not seem like it would be the right perspective of Him having ads during that football game where they support the LGBTQ community.

It would not seem like they would portray Jesus as Lord and Savior, and being against homosexuality with the NFL supporting the LGBTQ community so the hegetsus movement does not seem right.

They are reducing Jesus' status and trying to portray Him as identifying with all people which they could be setting the stage for the New Age Christ by saying Jesus is of the occult, and trying to unite the people with the perspective, and then convincing them to accept the New Age Christ that is of the occult, and the next world teacher above Jesus.

iamsoandso · Oct 2, 2023

wattie said:

I wondered if anyone else was noticing this trend,(the one you mention in the OP). I have noticed for about the last year or so(maybe longer) that several of the new members seem to be "pretending to be" Christian but are beginning threads in the different forums seemingly with the intent of discrediting Christianity on the internet. Whoever they are Wicca, devil worshiper(who knows who) they seem to be infiltrating Christian forums in a flash mob type fashion. I thought it was just a few misguided persons at first but no I notice them in the family forms,singles,BDF, news ect.... Thanks @wattie I needed that,,that is I thought it was just me that was thinking this.

It seems to me a group(groups?),of unbelievers have decided to join the forum and are pretending to be Christians but making unchristian statements in hopes that anyone wondering about Christ(new comers) will read the threads and come to the conclusion that Christians are nuts, (war mongers, pedophiles, immoral ect.).. That is it seems that they are trying to fit in to so they can normalize discussions about promiscuous things.

evyaniy · Oct 2, 2023

Philippians 2

5 Have this in your mind, which was also in Messiah Yeshua, 6 Who, existing in the form of EL, didn’t consider equality with EL a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a Servant, being made in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, He humbled Himself, becoming obedient to the point of death, yes, the death of the cross. 9 Therefore EL also highly exalted Him, and gave to Him the Name which is above every Name, 10 that at the Name of Yeshua every knee should bow, of those in heaven, those on earth, and those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Yeshua the Messiah is Adonai, to the glory of EL the Father.

Who, existing in the form of EL
didn’t consider equality with EL a thing to be grasped(held on to),
but emptied Himself, taking the form of a Servant,
being made in the likeness of men.
And being found in human form, He humbled Himself,
becoming obedient to the point of death, yes, the death of the cross.

He intentionally took the form of a Servant by becoming a Man and subjected Himself to His Father and His will.

This will result in everyone confessing that Yeshua the Messiah is Adonai, to the glory of EL the Father. He has been glorified again after accomplishing His Father's will and our Salvation. He has forever proven the love and righteousness and justice of YAH by what He did.

wattie · Oct 2, 2023

iamsoandso said:

I wondered if anyone else was noticing this trend,(the one you mention in the OP). I have noticed for about the last year or so(maybe longer) that several of the new members seem to be "pretending to be" Christian but are beginning threads in the different forums seemingly with the intent of discrediting Christianity on the internet. Whoever they are Wicca, devil worshiper(who knows who) they seem to be infiltrating Christian forums in a flash mob type fashion. I thought it was just a few misguided persons at first but no I notice them in the family forms,singles,BDF, news ect.... Thanks @wattie I needed that,,that is I thought it was just me that was thinking this.

It seems to me a group(groups?),of unbelievers have decided to join the forum and are pretending to be Christians but making unchristian statements in hopes that anyone wondering about Christ(new comers) will read the threads and come to the conclusion that Christians are nuts, (war mongers, pedophiles, immoral ect.).. That is it seems that they are trying to fit in to so they can normalize discussions about promiscuous things.

Yes this is the same thing I've been noticing, although more with supposed believers still lowering Christ's diety. It's subtle.. they would say Son of God, but not God.

I don't post in other areas much at all so haven't noticed it going on in the other areas you mentioned. I can imagine it though.

Nehemiah6 · Oct 3, 2023

wattie said:

The problem could be easily fixed. The first time a newcomer attacks or downgrades or questions the deity of Christ, that person should be immediately BANNED permanently. After all this is a Christian forum.

2ndTimeIsTheCharm · Oct 3, 2023

evyaniy said:

I think how Wattie created a separate thread was a good thing. Because in this way, the correction is focused on without engaging those people.

⛪

evyaniy · Oct 3, 2023

Something important must be happening on the forum because more new posters are showing up often now. Many are well informed and know the Scriptures and seem to have an agenda when they arrive. Maybe too much Truth was being presented and the waters needed to be muddied.

btw. Psalm 119 is the Son's prayer for life and to be raised from the dead because of His obedience to the Law in offering His Life as a Sacrifice for sin to save us, as the Law and His Father required of Him.

Just in case it needs to be said again after 2000 years of people not knowing and the theologs and preachers and rabbis and priests etc missing it.

evyaniy · Oct 3, 2023

nothing quite like a contrived discussion to push the buttons to keep people going in circles. but have at it.

evyaniy · Oct 3, 2023

you have to ask yourself why challenging people's faith is so important that they would spend so much time on it. what is to be gained.

ResidentAlien · Oct 3, 2023

evyaniy said:

Who are you talking to?

evyaniy · Oct 3, 2023

Nearly everyone missed that Psalm 119 is the Son's prayer for life for 2000 years now. That is what matters and what is important at this time. Instead age old debates over various doctrines are brought up to distract people from what matters. Many of those debates have gone on for centuries so there will never be a conclusive agreement that is acceptable to all. So the debates will rage on to keep people from understanding what matters most,

The Son's very prayer for life and to be raised from the dead is Psalm 119. What could be more important than that? What does it reveal? It proves beyond any question that Yeshua is the Messiah Who gave Himself to save us from our sins. His ageless prayer for life and to be raised was recorded 1000 years before He was crucified. He even refers to Himself as a slain Lamb in the last verse if the translations were corrected.

That is what is important at this time and not age old contrived disagreements that will never be settled to everyone's satisfaction but can be argued about forever.

wattie · Oct 3, 2023

Nehemiah6 said:

Yes I agree. But this doesn't happen much. I think they rely on us reporting others

Keris · Oct 3, 2023

wattie said:

Hi,
I believe that you invariably end up in some sort of polytheistic thinking if you define Jesus as a lesser deity than the Father! 😳

Also, you'd need to re-think your approach to worshipping the Father and the Son because the'd require to be worshipped differently.

Those who see Jesus an less divine than the Father have to deal with a whole new bunch of theological challenges and end up having very little time to care for the needy and feed the hungry. 🙃

wattie · Oct 3, 2023

Keris said:

Yea... I agree. If you lower Jesus to another lesser diety (if you are still worshipping Him), then you are faced with being a Polytheist.

As soon as they see that Jesus can give eternal life, it should prompt them to think He is fully God imo

Keris · Oct 3, 2023

Also, I suggest that the point of being a Christian is KNOWING God in the sense of connecting with Him in abandoned worship. How could one abandon oneself to a Jesus that is lesser than God?

Mem · Oct 3, 2023

In times past, God overlooked ignorance but now commands all men everywhere to repent (Act 17:30)

the natural man has an innate tendency to worship false Gods.

Acts 14
When the crowds saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices in the Lycaonian language: “The gods have come down to us in human form!” 12Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul they called Hermes, because he was the chief speaker. 13The priest of Zeus, whose temple was just outside the city, brought bulls and wreaths to the city gates, hoping to offer a sacrifice along with the crowds.

14But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul found out about this, they tore their clothes and rushed into the crowd, shouting, 15“Men, why are you doing this? We too are only men, human like you. We are bringing you good news that you should turn from these worthless things to the living God, who made heaven and earth and sea and everything in them. 16In past generations, He let all nations go their own way. 17Yet He has not left Himself without testimony to His goodness: He gives you rain from heaven and fruitful seasons, filling your hearts with food and gladness.”

18Even with these words, Paul and Barnabas could hardly stop the crowds from sacrificing to them.

They're quick to worship men but are reluctant to offer the True God full credit.

Subtle deception

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